before the House, he trusted the details of this List would not be withheld. Mr. Hume begged to remind the right hon. Gentleman, that when he made a similar demand in 1828, it was objected to upon the ground that the details could not be brought forward until there was a new settlement of the Civil List. He did not think a single shilling should be voted until all the information that might be required was laid before the House. CIVIL LIST.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he considered it would be convenient that previously to the House resolving itself into a Committee to take into consideration that part of his Majesty's Speech which referred to the settlement of the Civil List, he should state the course he intended to pursue. He did not expect the House to come to a decision that night on the Resolutions he should propose. After proposing those Resolutions, and stating his views respecting the future Civil List, which would be in great part matter of detail, he would lay before the House the various necessary documents in a clear form, so that hon. Members might be able to put themselves in full possession of all the information they required before they came to a vote on Monday next. The House then resolved itself into a Committee on the Motion of the right hon. Gentleman. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then spoke to the following effect :-I rise, Sir, pursuant to notice, for the purpose of recommending to the House to fulfil the assurance given to his Majesty, in answer to his gracious Speech from the Throne, that we would cheerfully provide all that was necessary for the support of the Civil Government and the honour and dignity of his Crown; and, Sir, if ever there was an occasion on which a proposition of this nature might dispense with all argument or recommendation upon the part of the individual who moves it, I am sure this is the occasion. I am confident there is not one of those I now have the honour of addressing that there is not a single man in the country, who will not be forward in the anxious wish to promote the comfort of the Sovereign and the dignity of the Crown. The people of England, always attached to monarchy, have heretofore not only maintained their Sovereigns in comfort and dignity, but have ever been desirous to uphold the Throne in honour and splendor, for they feel a reflected pleasure and glory in the splendor of the Crown. And, Sir, well convinced am I that there never was a period at which a warmer affection or more sincere attachment existed upon the part of the people towards their Sovereign than at present, and this I feel secures to me the universal consent of the people in making such a provision for the Crown as the circumstances of the case require. In asserting this, I do not, however, want to protect my proposition from that examination which is the duty of the House. No, Sir, I am prepared to meet that examination, and to meet it with confidence; although, undoubtedly, objections will be raised against it, and objections of a very different character. On the one hand I may be told that I am not dealing with sufficient liberality; and on the other, I may be reproached with not having a due regard to economy. Yet conscious that I am steering a middle course-avoiding a niggardly parsimony on the one side, and an undue extravagance on the other I feel that I may submit my proposition in the confidence that it will receive the approbation of the House. Sir, in bringing this subject under the consideration of Parliament, I stand, in some degree, in circumstances different from those under which any individual made a similar proposition in former times. The circumstances under which the settlement of the Civil List has before been made, conferred in themselves, credit upon former Parliaments, and, in the last instance, were highly honourable to the King who lately sat upon the Throne of these realms. To some of these circumstances I must direct the attention of the House, being convinced that they ought to be well considered by us, now engaged in settling the affairs of his present Majesty, for whose dignity and comfort we are called on to provide. The first of these peculiar circumstances is, that in making a proposition of this kind to the House, I am fortunately at the same time able to state, that during the whole of the last reign there was no period at which Parliament was called on to provide for debts incurred upon the Civil List. This is the first time, since the institution of the Civil List, that it was possible to call on Parliament to recollect, that no debt had been incurred since Parliament had last made the arrangement. If the hon. Members of this man the Civil List. But, of 118.30 terrence to calculations made on former Sir, besides, in the formation a tus Civi rasions, I am arte I do not over-estimate List, it am be consered that large naming as an additional expense fally payments are made on account of the lowance of her household, pensions, which, nouga & Jot go and the maintenance of her dignity. The sinie a pet za of dien mmediateix, 91,100%, therefore, I have proposed, inwill fail in with the ives ir nuse who now tintes DCC,200% for the expenditure occa enjoy them; and that there are officers, soned the presence of her Majesty, and if for whom although we now concmue us de taken med account the comparito gravida, ver it is our mencon tint wm between the Cori List we propose for their pinces, when once vacant, mail not be his present Majesty, and that granted to again filed ap. dat, Sir. from tuerons the late Sovereign, will turn out very of this nature previously artered, and avourable to our proposition. There is echers lately agreed upon, we have a saving disu another branch of expenditure, which in prospective amounting to 1.14. La formerly was thrown on the public, but the next place, the Irish pension list will from which it is now free, and the amount be reduced from 50,000% zu 41, 102 per of which is not inconsiderable. On the annum; making altogether, when these death of George 3rd, in conformity with reductions shall come into effect, a pecu- the previous practice of making a provision niary saving of 161,0002 But, Sir, as I by way of compensation for the servants of said before, this sum does not present a the preceding Monarch, pensions were fair picture of the economy we propose to granted to his servants, and this not upon apply to the Civil List. I need not inform the Civil List of his successor, but on the the House, for all men must be aware of Consolidated Fund. On the death of it, that there are expenses incident to the George 3cd. 21,000 was charged upon situation of his present Majesty from which the Consoudated Fund to pay a compen his predecessor was exempt. The Sove-sation to officers in his household; and reign, in the present case, is blessed with, a royal consort, who shares the affection and respect of the people with his most gracious Majesty. I am sure, Sir, the House would not feel it proper to diminish the amount of the allowance which, for a considerable time past, has been invariably granted to the Queens of England. In the reigns of George 2nd and George 3rd. 50,0001. a year was allowed the Queen for the maintenance of her household, and I can see no reason why we should for a moment hesitate to assign to her present Majesty the same allowance which the previous Queens of England uniformly received. Nor, Sir, is the expenditure which the Queen occasions to the Civil List limited to the sum allowed by Parliament for the maintenance of her household. It is obvious that the King, like every other individual, must, when married, add to his expenses in every branch of his establishment. And if the House is disposed to feel surprise that we have not announced a greater reduction in the Civil List, I beg hop. Members to consider the different circumstances under which 19,0004. upon the death of Queen Char botte was charged upon the Consolidated Fund for a similar purpose, making altogether a charge upon the public of 40,000, which the country thought it proper and expedient, and honourable to take upon itself. On the present occasion, however, his Majesty takes the whole compensation to the servants of the late King upon himself. His Majesty has been graciously pleased to adopt into his own service, as far as possible, all the servants of his predecessor; that is to say, all who were capable of performing the duties of their stations; and, therefore, he has considerably reduced the amount of compensation for which it is necessary to provide. But, Sir, notwithstanding this reduction, there is a charge of between 4,000. and 5,000l. remaining, which his Majesty will himself provide for, and thus relieve the public from a charge imposed upon in all former reigns, and which, in the last reign amounted to 40,000l. In calculating, therefore, the economy applied to the Civil List, we must not forget, Sir, these two the two last circumstances-I mean the whole provision for the expenditure occasioned by the Queen, and the compensation to the servants of the late King, for whom it is indispensable to provide.' Such, Sir, being the saving we intend to effect, I shall Monarchs are placed, and to take into account the expenses of the Queen, not only for her own household, but also the increase created by her presence in the general establishment a difference which, it with a view to form particular funds, is very inconvenient: there is something not very easy to apprehend in the payment, on the one hand, to a particular officer of a very considerable salary, and, on the other, in taking from that officer, at the time of making the payment, a considerable sum to be applied to future and other purposes. I propose, therefore, that all charges and deductions from all salaries shall be omitted in the statement, and that the salaries shall be stated at the precise amount, so that the Civil List shall shew to the public what is the actual amount applicable to the particular services to which the several payments are made. I have stated that I propose to transfer to the Civil List the payment of those salaries the larger portion of which is now chargeable on that branch of the expenditure; and I also propose to transfer to other funds those salaries, only small portions of which are now paid out of the Civil List. The first of the latter class is the salaries of the Judges. But a small portion of these salaries is now paid from the Civil List, the larger portion being paid from the Consolidated Fund. These salaries I therefore propose to transfer entirely to the Consolidated Fund; and if there was any choice from which fund those salaries should be paid, I should think that it would be freest from objection that the emoluments of these officers should be derived from a fund the least liable to the control of the Crown. I propose the same thing with reference to the Speaker of the House of Commons-I may say, with reference to all the other payments of salaries standing on the same footing. In the same way there are certain charges, of which by far the greater amount is defrayed by annual votes of this House, but some portion of which is also taken from the Civil List. These I propose to withdraw entirely from the Civil List, for the purpose of adding them to the several funds from which the greater portion of their amount is now paid. These three several sorts of payments will amount to 166,0007. which I shall withdraw from the vote I intend to ask as the vote for the Civil List. Such are the principles of the arrangements which I submit to the House as the foundation of the plan of the new Civil List; but perhaps the House will pardon me if I go a little more into detail on the several classes into which I propose the Civil List shall be divided. These classes now advert to the arrangements, under which we propose to place the new Civil List. I know, Sir, that on this point there is a great variety of opinions, and I remember that a noble Lord opposite, early in the opening of the Session, expressed a hope that the Civil List now to be presented to the public, would be confined merely to the personal expenses of the Monarch. I, however, after much deliberation, and after weighing maturely all matters connected with the question, must say, that it appears to me not expedient to separate the private and personal expenses of the Monarch from those incurred in his capacity of chief of the Government of the State. First, it is difficult to draw the precise line between the charges incurred by the Monarch in his individual capacity, and those incurred in his public capacity as the person administering the Government of the country; and if it were possible, I do not see that it would be advisable so to separate them, as long as the Civil List can be regulated in such manner as to present a fair, full, and distinct view of the expenditure. I cannot see the particular use of separating these two branches of the Civil List; I do not, therefore propose to withdraw from the Civil List all those charges which have hitherto been considered as belonging to the head of the civil expenditure. I have been anxious to avoid one of the classes of objections now applicable to the Civil List, namely, that which relates to the difficulty of finding the amount of remuneration given to civil officers, whose salaries are paid partly out of the Civil List, and partly from other quarters; and I have, therefore, endeavoured to remove from it those salaries which have been chiefly paid from other quarters, and the difference of which only has been paid from the Civil List. By the plan which I now propose to adopt, the whole salary of every particular officer will be made to appear in each of the particular funds from which it is chiefly paid. Where the larger portion of the salary is paid out of the Civil List, I have annexed to it those smaller portions which are paid from other funds, so that those who may wish to see what is the amount of any particular salary can see it at once, by reference to the Civil List expenditure, without being obliged to have recourse to more than one set of papers for information, I also think the present mode of making deductions from several payments, |