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Senator CLARK of Idaho. Who came to see you?
Mr. DIETZ. Walter Trumbull.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Walter Trumbull. Under Will Hays!
Mr. DIETZ. Under Will Hays. He came to see me with the letter,
which I read.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. You read the letter?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes, sir.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Do you recall the terminology of that letter, broadly?

Mr. DIETZ. I think I recall it pretty well; yes.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And did it contain in it a threat to withdraw advertising by this manager if Fidler's column was not dropped from the paper, substantially

Mr. DIETZ. I would say that Mr. Stahlman said that this man had threatened to withdraw advertising. I don't know whether he said that or whether he said that he threatened to have M-G-M withdraw its advertising.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes. Did you see the letter that Crull wrote to Stahlman?

Mr. DIETZ. No, sir.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. You saw the letter that Stahlman wrote to Will Hays?

Mr. Dierz. That is right.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes.

Mr. DIETZ. That is the only letter I have seen that had to do with this subject.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And then what did you do after that telephone conversation in connection with this incident? You said you called the theater department

Mr. Dietz. After what telephone conversation ?

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, after Mr. Trumbull cae to see you, We will put it that way.

Mr. Dietz. No; I didn't. I believe I called the Nashville Banner.
Senator CLARK. of Idaho. Oh, you called the Nashville Banner?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. And talked to whom?

Mr. Dietz. I talked to a representative, and first I called the—this is a confusion in my mind : how the representative of the Nashville Banner came to see me. That is a confusion, a legitimate confusion. All I do know is that I had a conversation and I believe luncheonI am not sure—with a representative—an advertising representativeof the Nashville Banner.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And advertising representative?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. You do not know whether you talked to him on the telephone at Nashville or whether he came and dropped into your office and you had lunch with him?

Mr. Dietz. Yes. That is correct. I don't remember the circumstances through which the meeting—it was in the normal course of a business appointment.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes. And did you arrange the appointment or did the representative of the Nashville Banner arrange the appointment?

Are you

Mr. Dietz. I am quite sure I did, to straighten that out when I saw that letter.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Then, if you arranged the appointment, and to refresh your memory, you must have either called or written the Nashville Banner, must you not!

Mr. Dietz. No; that is a debatable point. I think that I probably called the local representative.

Senator Clark of Idaho. The local representative in New York?
Mr. Dietz. Yes, that's right.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. You do not recall, though, specifically?

Mr. Dietz. I don't recall. No; I don't recall that. I mean I don't recall whether—who I called.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. That is right.
Mr. Dietz. Yes.

Senator Clark of Idaho. Now, and who was this representative of the Nashville Banner!

Mr. Dietz. Don't remember his name.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. You do not remember his name?
Mr. Dietz. No; don't remember his name.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Did he tell you that Mr. Stahlman had sent him up there to discuss this matter with you?

Mr. Dietz. Well, to try to recapture that conversation, which is quite difficult, I believe that I said that nobody could represent Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer on the question of advertising except me.

Senator ("ĽARK of Idaho. Now, do you recallthrough?

Mr. Dietz. No. I-substantially, again, this is what I said.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes, I understand.
Mr. Dietz. Yes.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Now, approximately how long was that luncheon conversation after the letter was written by Crull to Stahlman?

Mr. Dietz. I would say almost immediately.
Senator Clark of Idaho. Almost immediately?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes.

Senator Clark of Idaho. Following that lunchean conversation that you had with the advertising. representative of the Nashville Banner, then what did you do!

Mr. Dietz. Following the—following what did I do?

Senator Clark of Idaho. The lunchean engagement, yes. In connection with this incident, I mean.

Mr. Dietz. Well, bear in mind that except in relation to the fact that I disapproved of any such conversation that would represent my actions, I had no other action to take in relation to the Banner, because at no time was it ever contemplated or ever actually donethat is, related to withdrawal of advertising from the Nashville Banner.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And this was

Mr. DIETZ. Before, during, or since, but I am quite sure that at that time I must have called the theater department to register my disapproval with this misrepresentation on the part of anybody who thought he had an overlapping function.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. You say you must have. Do you have a definite recollection of such a conversation?

Mr. Dietz. No, I don't. I haven't a definite recollection of it, as a matter of fact.

Senator CLARK. of Idaho. Then you do not know whether you did call the theater department or not? You just assume you would have done that in the regular channels?

Mr. Dietz. Yes; that is correct.

Senator Clark of Idaho. And then the incident dropped as far as you were concerned, as far as you recall, until these committee hearings started ?

Mr. DIETZ. That is correct.

Senator Clark of Idaho. All right. Now, your theater, or Loew's theater at Nashville; is it owned entirely by Loew's?

Mr. DIETz. I think it is.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And this manager, Mr. Crull, would be a salaried employee?

Mr. DIETZ. Yes.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Approximately, if you know, what would a theater of that class- I do not want to get too personal, but approximately what scale of salaries would be paid to a manager of a theater of that class?

Mr. Dietz. I am not too confident in answering that question. I would say

Senator CLARK of Idaho. $5,000? $6,000 ? $7,000?
Mr. Dietz. That is probably high.
Mr. SCHENCK. May I? Mr. Chairman, may I answer that?
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes, Mr. Schenck.

Mr. SCHENCK. I think he is getting anywhere between seventy-five and a hundred dollars a week.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Thank you. .
Mr. DIETZ. Thank you, Mr. Schenck.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. All right. Thank you, Mr. Schenck. Now you

Senator TOBEY (interposing). Just a minute, Mr. Chairman, if I may. Relating to Mr. Schenck's reply, what was the question? Who was getting a hundred or seventy-five dollars a week?

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Crull.

Senator TOBEY (addressing Mr. Schenck). Well, I want to compliment you on your memory. You could not remember the companies you repreesnted, but you could remember what he is getting down there.

Mr. SCHENCK. May I answer that?
Senator TOBEY. Wonderful memory.
Mr. SCHENCK. May I answer that?
Senator TOBEY. Yes; you may.

Mr. SCHENCK. Why did I remember seventy-five to a hundred? Because that is about according to length of service. We start the manager about seventy-five a week up to a hundred.

Senator Tobey. Well, how did you remember how long he had been serving?

Mr. SCHENCK. Allow me, sir. As I was going to say, that that is definitely natural because that is a policy. All right, sir, and I know

our policy. So it has nothing to do with memory. And I have a pretty good memory.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Now, Mr. Dietz, what latitude do managers of theaters of that type have in the placement of local advertising?

Mr. DIETZ. As far as M-G-M is concerned ?
Senator CLARK of Idaho. As far as under you.
Mr. DIETZ. They have no latitude.
Senator CLARK Of Idaho. No latitude ?

Mr. Dietz. No. No. But there are some managers who because of their ability have at various times been of great assistance, men I respect, and have come into my ken, so to speak, and I wouldn't at all hesitate to discuss what could be done in a local situation.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. As regards advertising ?
Mr. Dietz. Yes; that is right.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes. Well, now, suppose that Mr. Crull, being in Nashville, decided, having been-you did not know how long he was in the employ of your company?

Mr. Dietz. No, I don't. I know very few of the theater managers personally.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes. Suppose that he decided that he wanted so much space in newspaper A and so much space in newspaper B for the following month; would you overrule him?

Mr. Dietz. Well, I would. You see-
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, now-

Mr. DIETZ. I have to give you-I can't answer that directly be. cause it involves a little more than that?

Senator CLARK of Idaho. All right.
Mr. DIETZ. May I do it? You feel it is important?
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Precisely.
Mr. DIETZ. Let us be exact about it.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Oh, precisely. That is right.

Mr. DIETZ. When a film is produced and is about to be released my interest is creating an interest in this film, a public interest in the film: I want to lift it out of anonymity. At such times I will decide on certain appropriations. Those appropriations might be merely tentative in my mind, because the film itself may have a history in the course of its own circulation which may warrant altering the cost.

The purpose of that advertising is to popularize the film everywhere, wherever possible, not with relation to a specific theater, necessarily. In other words, I would like to have a paper with a large circulation in its territory run advertising on that if we could afford it, and if it is warranted, for the purpose of popularizing it for all theaters who may possibly be called upon to play this film.

Therefore, in answering your question, when you reduce it to a specific manager of a theater which is one theater of many theatersnot only Loew theaters—you necessitate my answer in this elaborate way.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, just so you answer it. Now let me ask you this question : From week to week the managers—Who signs the contract with the local paper for space in your various towns! A town like Nashville?

Mr. Dietz. Our agency.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Your agency in that town. Your manager signs it, does he not? Mr. Dietz. No, no. No. You see, now, he

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, that is the answer, unless there is something very vital. I think a witness is always entitled to explain an answer.

But then he does not sign it?
Mr. Dietz. He doesn't.

Senator Clark of Idaho. O. K. Now, how is this advertising contract arrived at ! Do you allow your manager a budget?

Mr. DIEFZ. No, sir. No, sir. I don't do that. You see

Senator Clark of Idaho. Suppose the local manager, Mr. Crull, wanted to run so much advertising in the local paper for the next 2 weeks. How would he go about getting authority to run it?

Mr. Dietz. Well, he wouldn't—he might ask if Metro-GoldwynMayer was interested in advertising in the papers, but he couldn't get his authority to run it.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, do you sent an agent down there? Mr. DIETZ. An agent?

Senator CLARK of Idaho. From your own headquarters, to supervise placing of space in the paper.

Mr. DIETZ. Yes, quite often. Yes, sir.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Quite often?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes, sir.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. As a matter of fact, does not a local manager have a pretty free hand in the allocation, among newspapers in a given town, of ordinary advertising copy!

Mr. Dietz. No; he has none at all.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, who does do it, then?
Mr. DIETZ. Well, I do it.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. You do it?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Suppose there are two or three newspapers in a town. Do you apportion it among the newspapers yourself?

Mr. Dietz. Yes, sir.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Entirely so?
Mr. DIETZ. Yes, sir. Oh, yes, sir.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Without reference to the local manager?
Mr. Dietz. Yes, sir; without reference to the local manager.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And Mr. Crull, then, would have no authority whatsoever to place advertising in the local newspaper?

Mr. Dietz. No, sir; none at all.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. You say he does not even sign the contract?
Mr. DIETZ. No, sir.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. How do you determine what advertis-
ing you are going to place? By conversations with him?
Mr. DIETZ. No. I know about the film business.
Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes; but I mean in any given local town.

Mr. Dietz. Well, I decide what the advertising should be in any given local town.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And you do not consult your local man

agers at all?

Mr. Dietz. No, sir; not at all.

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