1805 novelty. He lamented, that so much of the Popery code had been repealed.

Lord Mulgrave.

Lord Hollaud.

Lord Mulgrave professed himself friendly to the petition, but would not vote for the motion, because he apprehended, that it would not be carried in either House of Parliament: and the petitioners had urged forward the question precipitately and intemperately.

*

Lord Holland entered largely into a refutation of the objections raised by Lord Sidmouth and Lord Hawkesbury. It was useless to say any thing of times or seasons to those, who avowed, that at any time and always their objections to the principle were unsurmountable. The noble Secretary's elaborate distinction between civil rights and political power was nugatory: political power was the only security for civil rights. He was at a loss to account for Lord Mulgrave's objection, especially as the same Right Hon. Gentleman, who once retired from office expressly, because he could not carry the Catholic Question in a certain exalted quarter, and declared he never would return to office until he could, was then again in power. If the present moment of war and difficulty rendered the time unseasonable for the measure, the moment, in which that Right Hon. Gentleman so quitted office in 1801 was also a moment of war and danger. In answer to an unsurmountable obstacle, which was urged against the measure, on account of the growing power of Napoleon and his connection with the See of Rame, his Lordship read

A

a passage from Bishop Burnett's history, in which, it is stated, that the policy of King William was always to extend toleration: and one of his strongest reasons for lamenting the severities, to which the Catholics were subjected, was that they tended to augment the power of Louis XIV. then the most powerful patron of the Catholic cause. But so far were our Ministers from granting toleration, that it was their policy to defeat the toleration, which the law allowed of.

But until some share of political power were added, the Catholics never could maintain the concessions, which had been made to them, nor rise out of the degradation, to which for want of it they had been let down. That was precisely the moment to convince the Catholics of Ireland, that they could expect nothing from Catholic powers so advantageous and satisfactory, as the liberality and justice of the British Legislature could bestow.

1305.

Bishop of

Lord Camden found full reason for opposing Lord Camthe motion in the grounds, upon which the Irish den aud Parliament had negatived the question, whilst he Durbam. had the honor of being placed at the head of the Irish Government. And the Bishop of Durham urged, that the motion could not be acceded to without danger to the Church and State. It would · be a direct surrender of the security of the best Constitution in the world; which he trusted would never be done by a British Parliament.

Lord Redesdale vehemently opposed the motion; Lord Reassuming, that the petition went to claim for the desdale. Catholics an equal participation of rights and

1805.

powers in Church and State. To accede to the prayer of it, would, in fact, be to take from the established Hierarchy of Ireland their revenues, and transfer them to the Catholic Bishops; nor would they stop, until they had separated Ireland from England. He insisted, that all the Scots and other Dissenters, who held places under Government, and took the Sacrament* according to the rites of the established Church, thereby became literally members of it. Why should Catholics then be admitted to places and refuse the test, which all Protestants are obliged to conform to? The Catholic Clergy were a most dangerous body in Ireland; they considered the Protestants as usurpers of their rights, and called the Archbishop of Armagh plain Dr. Stuart, and denied him and his brethren any regular succession from the Apostles. His Lordship strenuously inveighed against their assumption of all the titles and dignities corresponding with those of the established Church; and particularly of the power of excommunication, which, coupled with their further powers of penance and absolution, gave their clergy an unbounded influence over the Laity, The Roman Catholic Bishops were, said his Lordship, a body, who tyrannized over the rest of the Catholics differing from all the rest of Europe; nor could any peace be kept in Ireland, so long as they remained unabolished: for to their influence was owing all the misconduct of their flocks. The Catholics of

Several acts have passed since 1747, for indemnifying those who have not conformed to the test.

England were, according to his Lordship's observation, the best behaved in their respective counties; and they obtained their indulgencies for their good behaviour. The Irish boasted, that they had acquired their object by energy and perseverance, and would persist in their pursuit till they accomplished their end. If the Catholic hierarchy were abolished, something might be done to conciliate the Catholic body; and to the generality of that body, he was confident, the abolition of the hierarchy would be extremely grateful. He had heard of a province, where the inferior clergy, one and all deprecated the appointment of a Bishop amongst them and several reputable and intelligent Catholics had assured his Lordship, they would be glad to get rid of their Bishops. Yet one thing was certain, that no information could be had from individuals of their community, so long as the influence of their Bishops prevailed; for they forbad all intercourse with Protestants; and a reputable person had told his Lordship, that he had lately been forbidden such intercourse under pain of excommunication. Wales had given quickly and generally into the Reformation, because the Bible and Common Prayer were translated into Welsh. In Ireland the service of the established Church was performed in English, which the natives did not understand. But, from the nature of their education they were well acquainted with Latin, in which the service of their Church was always' celebrated. Wishing to convert as many Irish as possible to the united Church, he recom

1805.

1805.

mended translations of the Bible and Common
Prayer, and to have their service and sermons in
the Irish language, and then Ireland would soon
conform, as Wales had done. Out of 2,400 pa-
rishes in Ireland, not more than 600 had resi
dences for their clergy, and not one-third of them
had churches and there are many very excellent
and productive livings without a church, glebe-
house, or single Protestant; and yet those livings
were very eagerly sought after amongst the Pro-
testant clergy, as sinecures. In
In many such dis-
tricts, no Protestant but a man of fortune and in-
fluence durst take up his abode: and if a Protes-
tant day labourer should venture, to come amongst
them, he would immediately have his ears cropt.
Catholic servants were all in a combination not to
live with Protestant servants: on which account
not even the poorer orders iu Dublin could get
their children prenticed out in service, even with
Protestant gentlemen; who were therefore obliged
to bring them up to handy-craft trades.
He again
asserted, that as long as the Catholic hierarchy
remained unabolished in Ireland, the Irish Catho-
lics never would be amenable to the laws. Those
inen always did, and always would resist the laws.
From them the Catholics should release themselves:
but until they cease to be slaves to that body, who
made them so, the Catholics were unworthy to
participate fully with Protestants the privileges
they sought by their petition*.

Such was the speech of Lord Chancellor Redesdale, by whose advice and councils Lord Viscount Sidmouth congratulated