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Lord Hol

1505, novelty. He lamented, that so much of the Po

pery code had been repealed. Lord Mul- Lord Mulgrave professed himself friendly to the

petition, but would not vote for the motion, bes cause he apprehended, that it would not be carried in either House of Parliament: and the petitioners liad urged forward the question precipitately and intemperately.

Lord Holland entered largely into a refutation land. of the objections raised by Lord Sidmouth and

Lord Hawkesbury. It was useless to say any thing of times or seasons to those, who avowed, that at any time and always their objections to the principle were unsurmountable. The noble Secretary's elaborate distinction between civil-rights and political power was nugatory : political power was the only security for civil rights. He was at a loss to account for Lord Mulgrave's objection, especially as the same Right Hon. Gentleman, who once retired from office expressly, becalise he could not carry the Catholic Question in a certain exalted quarter, and declared he never would return to office until he could, was then again in power. If the present moment of war and difficulty rendered the time unseasonable for the measure, the moment, in which that Right Hon, Gentleman so quitted office in 1801.was also a moment of war and danger. In answer to an unsurmountable obstacle, which was urged against the measure, on account of the growing power of Napoleon and his connection with the See of Rome, his Lordship read a passage from Bishop Burnett's history, in which, 1305.. it is stated, that the policy of King William was always to extend toleration : and one of his strongest reasons for lamenting the severities, to which the Catholics were subjected, was that they tended to augment the power of Louis XIV. then the most powerful patron of the Catholic cause. But so far were our Ministers from granting toleration, that it was their policy to defeat the toleration, which the law allowed of. But until some share of political power were added, the Catholics ' never could maintain the concessions, which had been made to them, nor rise out of the degradation, to which for want of it they had been let down. That was precisely the moment to convince the Catholics of Ireland, -that they could expect nothing from Catholic powers so advantageous and satisfactory, as the liberality and justice of the British Legislature could bestow.

Lord Camden found full reason for opposing cord Cam. the motion in the grounds, upon which the Irish den aud

"Bishop of Parliament had negatived the question, whilst he Durham. had the honor of being placed at the head of the Irish Government. And the Bishop of Durham urged, that the motion could not be acceded to without danger to the Church and State. It would be a direct surrender of the security of the best Constitution in the world ; which he trusted would never be done by a British Parliament.

Lord Redesdale vehemently opposed the motion- ; Lord Re. assuming, that the petition went to claim for the desdale, Catholics an equal participation of rights and



powers in Church and State. To accede to the prayer of it, would, in fact, be to take from the established Hierarchy of Ireland their revenues, and transfer them to the Catholic Bishops; nor would they stop, until they had separated Ireland from England. He insisted, that all the Scots and other Dissenters, who held places under Government, and took the Sacrament* according to the rites of the established Church, thereby became literally members of it. Why should Catholics then be admitted to places and refuse the test, which all Protestants are obliged to conform to ? The Catholic Clergy were a most dangerous body in Ireland; they considered the Protestants as usurpers of their rights, and called the Archbishop of Armagh plain Dr. Stuart, and denied him and his brethren any regular succession from the Apostles. His Lordship strenuously inveighed against their assumption of all the titles and dignities corresponding with those of the established Church; and particularly of the power of excommunication, which, coupled with their further powers of penance and absolution, gave their clergy an unbounded influence over the Laity. The Roman

Catholic Bishops were, said his Lordship, a body, · who tyrannized over the rest of the Catholics dif

fering from all the rest.of Europe, nor could any peace be kept in Ireland, so long as they remained unabolished : for to their influence was owing all the misconduct of their flocks. The Catholics of

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* Several acts have passed since 1747, for indemnifying those who beveraltacos fave isoth since who have not conformed to the test. ...

England were, according to his Lordship’s obser- 1805., vation, the best behaved in their respective counties; and they obtained their indulgencies for their good behaviour. The Irish boasted, that they had ,acquired their object by energy and perseverance, and would persist in their pursuit till they accomplished their end. If the Catholic hierarchy were abolished, something might be done to conciliate the Catholic body; and to the generality of that body, he was confident, the abolition of the hiefarchy would be extremely grateful. He had heard of a province, where the inferior clergy, one and all deprecated the appointment of a Bishop amongst them; and several reputable and intelligent Catholics had assured his Lordship, they would be glad to get rid of their Bishops. Yet one thing was certain, that no information could .be had from individuals of their community, so long as the influence of their Bishops prevailed; for they forbad all intercourse with Protestants; and a reputable person had told his Lordship, that he had lately been forbidden such intercourse under pain of excommunication. Wales had given quickly and generally into the Reformation, because the Bible and Conimon Prayer were translated into Welsh. In Ireland the service of the established Church was performed in English, which the na. tives did not understand. But, from the nature of their education they were well acquainted with Latin, in which the service of their Church was · always' celebrated. Wishing to convert as many Irish as possible to the united Church, he recon



1805. mended translations of the Bible and Common

Prayer, and to have their service and sermons in the Irish language, and then Ireland would soon conform, as, Wales liad done. ' Out of 2,400 parishes in Ireland, not more than 600 had resie dences for their clergy, and not one-third of them had churches: and there are many very excellent and productive livings without a church, glebehouse, or single Protestant; and yet those livings were very eagerly sought after amongst the Protestant clergy, 'as sinecures. In many such districts, no Protestant but a man of fortune and influence durst take up his abode : and, if a Protestant day labourer should venture to come amongst them, he would immediately. have his ears cropl. Catholic servants were all in a combination not to live with Protestant servants; on which account not even the poorer orders iu Dublin could get their children prenticed out in service, even with Protestant gentlemen ; who were therefore obliged to bring them up to handy-craft trades. He again asserted, that as long as the Catholic hierarchy remained unabolished in Ireland, the Irish Catholics never would be amenable to the laws. Those unen always did, and always would resist the laws. From them the Catholics should release themselves: but until they cease to be slaves to that, body, who made them so, the Catholics were unworthy to participate fully with Protestants the privileges they sought by their petition*. .....

Such was the speech of Lord Chancellor 'Redesdale, by whose advice and councils Lord Viscount Sidmouth congratulated

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