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the consequence was, that great misrepresentation 1807. took place, and their characters suffered much.

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April 11. 141

Lords Com

Adm. Sir R. Bickerton,

missioners

of the Ad

miralty.

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Right Hon. R. Dundas. President of

the Board of Controul.

Earl Camden, imp

set oh Lord Hawkesbury,

VOL. II

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Lord Visc. Castlereagh,

Geo. Canning, Esq.

Duke of Portland,
Spencer Perceval,
Lord Louvaine,

Lord Teignmouth,

Right Hon. T. Wallace,

Geo. Johnstone, Esq.

Lord B. Somerset,

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Commis. for

managing the affairs of

India.

Joint Paymas

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1807

Lord Gren

ville's Ex

dismissal.

To prevent similar effects, he spoke to the general subject nearly as follows.

On three questions only did Mr. Pitt and Mr. pose of his Fox agree during the course of their long political lives. These were the sinking fund, the abolition of the slave trade, and what is called the Catholic question. Two of these had been carried; the first as soon as it was proposed, and the second after great delay, and having to encounter every species of artifice and misrepresentation. The third rested upon such grounds of justice and policy, that he could not conceive how any one, who understood the interests of the country could oppose it. On a former occasion, he had sacrificed objects of ambition and gratification, and he was ready to make such sacrifices again. He did it upon the principle, that four millious of subjects were to be governed by conciliation and kindness, and not by intole rance and exclusion. Different overtures were afterwards made to him for his assistance. His answer invariably was, that his Sovereign might command his services, but he never would relinquish the privilege of speaking his mind on the question. An opportunity afterwards arose, when the Catholics of Ireland wished to have their case taken into consideration. They did him the honor of selecting him to present their petition, which he wil lingly accepted. Upon the event of the motion, which he then made, it was not necessary for him to trouble the House with any observations. majority, who rejected it, could not have been understood, as having given a lasting pledge, that

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they would never accede to it. Some months after
that, the country was deprived of the great States-
man, who then was at the head of his Majesty's
councils. The King sent for him, under the im-
pression, that he might be useful, not in supplying
the loss of that great man, for that was impossible,
but in forming another administration. In form-
ing that administration, he did recommend such
persons, as he considered to entertain sentiments
most congenial to the constitution, most of whom
were known to be friends to the principle of grant-
ing every indulgence to the Catholics. When they
were known to entertain such sentiments, could
he conceive, that they would be called upon to ex-
ercise their duty in any other mode than the con-
stitution required, which was in the words of their
oath, to give "full, fair, and open counsel to their
Sovereign," and to advise him upon all occasions, to
the best of their judgments? No idea was ever
holden out to them, that there was any objection
to the concessions in favour of the Catholics. Far
from it. Within these few days even, he had au
thority to say, that they came into council with
their judgments unfettered. He would at the same
time acknowledge, that it was not their intention
to press any measure of that nature, except neces-
sity required it. He did entertain hopes, that such
a degree of satisfaction might be given to the Ca-',
tholics by his Majesty's representative in Ireland;
he did hope, that they would find that security in
the constitution of the cabinet, that they would
not think it necessary to stir the question. His

1807.

1807. object, and the object of those, who acted with

Lord Gren

ville continued.

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him, was to knit together all classes of his Majes ty's subjects in that country by a mild and conciliatory government. He entertained hopes, that such a system would supersede the necessity of agitating the question, particularly when it was known there were objections to it in a certain quarter, that it would be strongly opposed in Parliament, and that there was not any prospect of success for a considerable time. Accordingly they took measures to prevent the revival of the question, and they succeeded last year. Some symptoms, however, of that disturbed state, which in his opinion could be best prevented by that measure, broke out. To the honor of the noble Duke, who represented his Majesty, they were composed, not by having recourse to harsh measures, but by civil justice alone. The attention of ministers was soon after called to the situation of Ireland, by the representation of those, who had the best means of ascertaining the state of the public mind in that country

I

If the Irish law were adopted, he meant the law of 1793, would not the English Dissenter have a right to say, "Upon what principle of justice do

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you exclude me, while you are a friend to the "Catholic "For his part he was so much a friend to both, that he would have no distinction made, as far as regarded naval or military employment. It was therefore their opinion, that if any bill were brought forward, it should be so framed, as to include persons of all religious persuasions¿

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and such was the opinion, that he, for one, thought_1807.
it necessary to submit the measure to his Sove-
reign. In so doing, the most scrupulous care had
been observed. The draft of the dispatch to the
Lord Lieutenant, relative to the communications,
which he was to have with the Catholics, was sub-
mitted to his Majesty, and met with his approba-
tion. This draft recited, that by an act of the
Irish Parliament, the army and navy were laid
open to the people of that country, and did then
propose, that it should be in his Majesty's power to
give commissions, subject to a certain oath. They
pointed out the difference between the law of 1793,
and that, which they meant to propose; and having
done that, they conceived, that they had done all,
that was necessary. After some objections his
Majesty gave his consent, that the measure should
be proposed, and authority was given to the Lord
Lieutenant to communicate, by his Secretary, to
the heads of the Catholics, that the army and navy
should be opened to them. In that interview, it
was asked. Whether it were intended, that the re-
striction respecting generals on the staff should be
done away? And it was answered, in the words of
the dispatch, that it was. The Lord Lieutenant's
dispatch, stating these circumstances, was sent
to his Majesty for his perusal, and returned with-
out any remark. The draft of another dispatch,
in answer to this, was also sent to the King, and
returned without comment or observation of any
kind. What were they to conclude from this, but
that his Majesty approved of those dispatches?

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