tleman. Some licences had been granted previous to the issuing of letters of marque, and anterior to the declaration of war, and vessels about to sail under these, sir J. B. Warren had not allowed to proceed. Several American vessels had been stopped, but not captured. Mr. Whitbread said, as the war between the two countries had been contemplated at the time these licences were issued, he thought they might fairly have been interpreted to exempt those to whom they were granted from all interruption and molestation arising out of the hostilities between the two countries. They ought not to be interfered with by a blockading squadron. Such interference might cause the parties much injury, severe losses, and even ruin, though their vessels were not captured. Mr. Robinson thought the licences in question were dated the 14th or 15th of September. These set forth, that those who held them were not to be molested in the event of hostilities breaking out between the two countries, but it was not meant that this protection should give permission to break through a blockade. The licences were intended to protect American ships on their voyage, but if a port were blockaded it gave them no right to break the blockade. Mr. Baring said, the licences had been granted to enable American ships to carry provisions to our armies in the peninsula, and therefore they were protected against hostilities. He would put it to any man understanding the English language, if it might not fairly be assumed, from the wording of these licences, that their owners might sail from any American port to any port not blockaded, though they might not be permitted to return to the port from which they had sailed, if that port were put in a state of blockade. MOTION FOR A COMMITTEE ON THE CIVIL LIST.] On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Act of the 52 Geo. 3, c. 6, for making provision for the better support of his Majesty's Household, during the continuance of his Majesty's indisposition, was entered as read. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then rose and called the attention of the House to the state of the Civil List expenditure. The last settlement by parliament was in the year 1804; but since that period an excess had annually been found to arise above the estimate. At present there appeared an increase of expenditure of 203,000l. above the estimate of 1804. In the seven years following that year, the average excess over that estimate was 124,000l. From this it would be seen, that though there appeared an increase of 203,000l. on the estimate of 1804, the excess of the year ending April the 5th, 1813, was only the difference between 124,0007. and 203,000l. Since the accession of his present Majesty, it had been found necessary to make various additions to the amount of the Civil List revenue, and the sum total of these was 265,000l. By Mr. Burke's Bill the expenditure had been divided into certain classes; and he now proposed to state successively the amount of excess which had taken place on each particular head, as compared with the expenditure of 1804, and the average of the subsequent years. One cause of the present existing excess, for which parliament would be called on to provide, was the additional allowances that had been made to some of the members of the royal family. The additions made in the last year, in the first class, for the establishments of the Princesses, the increase of the Queen's income, and for the privy purse of the Prince Regent, threw on it a charge of 120,000l. Towards meeting this, a revenue of 70,000l. was given to it, which left 50,000l. unprovided for. The second class, which included the sala Mr. Robinson still contended that these licences, granted before the commencement of the war, could not be understood to give permission to those who held themries of the Judges, remained as heretofore. to break any blockade which had subsequently been resolved upon. Mr. Preston was proceeding to offer some remarks on the subject, when the Speaker reminded the House that no question was before them, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer then rose, to put an end to the conversation by bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice respecting the Civil List. The third class, that in which was included the allowances of Foreign Ministers, had considerably increased from the change in our political relations. In 1811, that charge did not much exceed. 18,000l. ; it amounted last year to 88,500l. In the class including tradesmans' bills, the House could not be surprised that an increase of expenditure had likewise been found unavoidable, under the circumstances of the times. These had been set down in the estimate of 1804, at 172,000l. The actual | dered. The increase of charge to be acexpenditure of the next year was 296,000l. counted for, as compared with the list of The expenditure of the last year was 1804, was 209,000l. and from that was to 277,000l. being 19,000l. less than the ac- be deducted a saving of 6,000l. so that the tual expenditure of the year immediately sum would be 203,000l. In the Committee following that in which the estimate was he would be ready to give more minute made. In the departments of the Master explanation of that increase than he had of the Horse and Master of the Robes there already given. But, on looking over the was an augmentation of expence amount- accounts, the House would perceive how ing to 47,000l.; that in the department of small a proportion of this increase had the Lord Chamberlain, was principally to been occasioned by the Prince Regent, be ascribed to the transfer of some of the while, on the contrary, how great a prodomestic servants' salaries to this class. portion of it had been occasioned by serIn the department of Master of the Horse, vices purely political. It had chiefly been the excess must immediately be under- occasioned by expences atttendant on stood, when it was considered that the foreign ministers, and by the pensions same stable establishment had been kept granted to those who were well entitled up as was maintained before his Majesty's to them for past services, though now no indisposition. In the office of the Lord longer able to fulfil their duties properly, Steward there was a saving of 30,000l. from age and other causes. These were The expenditure on the head of pen- reasons for increase, of which the House sions was $5,9001. being about 1,000l. be- would not be inclined to complain. The low the average. There was an excess in increase they had occasioned was 150,0001. the expence of providing compensations odd, out of the 203,000l. He could not to superannuated servants, it not having but here observe, how much it would rebeen deemed proper to dismiss those who dound to the honour of the country, and had grown old in the service of his Ma- of the crown, if the Civil List were put on jesty, and on the other hand, it was not just such a footing as to prevent all arrears ;— to remove the officers and servants who had (Hear!)-but he saw no hope of preventpreviously been about the person of the ing either its being in arrear, or its inPrince. The amount on this head was crease, while the list was exposed to so 11,1007. The estimate provided a sum of many occasional payments. The charges, 27,000l. for the payment of foreign agents, for instance, connected with our foreign but the average expenditure was about ministers, might be provided for by a se60,000l. The items against the names of parate act of parliament, instead of being sir Charles Stewart and sir H. Wellesley suffered to swell the Civil List; and, in so at Lisbon and Cadiz might appear parti- doing, the House would bring within its cularly large. This arose from the very most immediate notice the items of the great disbursements they were under the Civil List as well as those for foreign minecessity of making, from the peculiar nisters. He thought the present a good nature of the situations in which they were opportunity for making inquiries with the placed. Sir C. Stewart, as a member of view of accomplishing such object. Bethe regency of Portugal, was obliged to fore he sat down he ought to observe, that maintain a splendid establishment, and sir many expences had been incurred, when H. Wellesley, as ambassador to the Spa- the Prince Regent had assumed the sovenish government, had constantly to enter-reign authority, which, though they had tain parties of military officers. He mentioned these things, and noticed the great losses by exchange, to which both were subjected, in order to exculpate those gentlemen from any charge of extravagance that might have been preferred against them. The Treasury expences had swelled much above those of former years. The most material increase was caused by an addition of 120l. to the salaries of old Treasury clerks, who had very severe duty to perform, and who had been very inadequately rewarded for the long and meritorious services which they had ren swelled the List, would not periodically return upon them; therefore, they might be termed irregular charges. When he talked of irregularity, he meant that they would not annually appear. Of these the principal charge was for furniture to fit up a council chamber, for the reception of ministers, &c. &c. at Carlton House. In departments of the household, economical measures had been had recourse to with great success. In the Lord Steward's department, as he had already stated, there had been a saving of 30,000l. by a careful application of the plan laid down. further saving of 6,000l. was expected by commutations and superannuations. Savings had also taken place in the Lord Chamberlain's department, and also in that of the Master of the Horse; but not to such an amount as appeared in the Lord Steward's. Much, however, he hoped would be effected.-He hoped the House would be satisfied that no establishments had been formed which were not demanded for the public service. On the whole of his statement, he trusted it would be seen that great part of the increase of expenditure was occasioned by charges for political services, which must be paid by the public under any form of government, republican or other. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving, "That a Select Committee be appointed to consider of the charge upon the Civil List Revenue; and that they do report their observations thereupon, and also as to such further regulations as it may be proper to adopt with respect to the expenditure thereof, to the House." Mr. Whitbread thought that much important consideration was involved in the accounts of charges on the Civil List, and, as he had often before said, the matter ought to be taken into the most serious examination of parliament; but he could not withhold his surprise at the motion after the many abortive attempts that had been made to obtain a committee on this very subject. A committee had been appointed last session; it made a report shortly before the close of that session; but that report had been nugatory. It gave much good advice, it contained many good suggestions, it made many woeful lamentations respecting the past; and it buoyed itself with hopes for the future-but all had been useless, no good effect had grown out of that report. Though the Chancellor of the Exchequer now talked of seeing whether that could be accomplished, which had, in fact, been powerfully suggested in the report of last session, how little hope could the House entertain of any beneficial result when it was remembered how nugatory had been the former report! It had been said that the present motion was made in compliance with an Act of last session, respecting any excess in the Civil List; but that Act, like every thing connected with the Civil List, was so ambiguously worded, that it was hardly possible to say, after all they had heard this night, whether the right hon. gentleman had or had not complied with the enactments of it. If he understood that Act rightly, the application had not been made to parliament so soon as it ought to have been made. There had been the greatest laxity in the Civil List accounts; but the right hon. gentleman had exculpated himself from having had any connexion with the fallacious statements of 1804. It was now very properly wished that arrears might be prevented, and that excess might be regularly provided for. Mr. Perceval, in the course of last session, had turned his mind to the excess that constantly took place, and he brought it before parliament. From an average of the expenditure, he found that the excess was annually 124,000l. and it was recognized by parliament at that amount, or rather by the administra tion of that day. It was provided for permanently, as it was said. Amongst other things that had been called in to their assistance were the Admiralty Droits, a fund that might be called the pack-horse that must be had recourse to on all burdensome occasions. But as that fund must fail if there were to be a peace, it could not be said to be permanently provided for. The Act also provided that when the excess of the List amounted to 10,000l. application must be made to parliament; but the excess was twelve times that amount, and application was now made for the first time since the passing of that Act. When the excess was stripped of, or rather clothed with all the circumstances that of right belonged to it, it might be calculated at about 120,000l. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had dwelt with great nicety on the items of the List, particularly on the expences of furniture, &c. which had occasioned the excess; but he appeared to have forgotten a little act of parliament, which gave to the Prince Regent 100,000l. expressly for the purpose of defraying the expences of the outfit. The Civil List enjoyed by the Regent was larger than any that had ever been before granted in this country. But arrangements had been made, by setting sums apart for the payment or liquidation of certain contracts of honour which had been entered into by his Royal Highness; but what the amount of them was, or when the period of their liquidation would arrive, no one could tell. Calling to mind, however, what immense sums were provided for the express purpose of disposing of these contracts, and for which no account whatever was to be returned to par liament, he should oppose the appoint- | 60,000l.; as Prince of Wales, he had ment of a select committee until the 125,000l. Of this sum 5,000l. a year was House was made acquainted with the said to go to the Princess of Wales; amount of the Prince's debts, or, if it were 50,000l. was set apart for the purposes of a more delicate way of coming at the in- the trust, and the other 70,000l. remained formation which he required, when the for himself, making, with the 60,000l. a period of their complete liquidation might total sum of 130,000l. a year. To this be expected to arrive? He thought the was to be added the duchy of Cornwall, House, before it appointed a select com. which had been taken by the public in the mittee, ought to resolve itself into a com- year 1795, when it produced a revenue of mittee for the purpose of coming to cer- 13,000l. a year, but was released and put tain resolutions respecting the disposition at the disposal of his Royal Highness in of the immense sums paid to the Prince the year 1804. How much the revenue of Regent, for the purpose of liquidating the the duchy had increased, he (Mr. WhitHouse knew not what, nor to what bread) could not pretend to say. He amount. In 1795, an Act had been passed knew it was very much increased by the to provide annually 60,000l. for the pur- falling in of leases, and otherwise, and pose of defraying those debts, and it was that it was under admirable management. said that in twelve years the whole of He had heard its present revenue stated as them would be discharged. In 1804 it high as 30,000l. a year, but he would not was stated, however, that the annuity of be thought to exaggerate in taking it at 60,000l. would be required for three years 20,000l. which in that view of the case, longer than had been originally specified: would leave at the complete disposal of his and that then the contracts would cer- Royal Highness 150,000l. a year. They tainly be fulfilled. The year 1806 ar- had been told by his hon. and learned rived, and then they were told that the friend (Mr. Adam,) that his Royal HighPrince could not resume his proper splen-ness dedicated a large sum to the extincdour without the annuity, or without some additional grant from parliament. By the Act of 1795, the commissioners were to publish in the Gazette, from time to time, the progress they made in liquidating those contracts of honour; but that practice was continued only for a very short time, and till 1806 they never heard any thing about the progress that was making. They had nothing before them from which they could judge whether the commissioners had discharged their duty faithfully, much less whether all the debts were nearly paid. Ought the House to remain in this state of darkness? The leaving of such immense sums to be disposed of without being regularly accounted for, ought to awaken their jealousy; for though they had no danger to apprehend now, yet with an ambitious Sovereign, what use might not be made of such means to undermine their liberties by ruling the majorities in that House! The accounts of charges on the Civil List before the House were intricate in the extreme, indeed the items seemed to be removed from the debit to the credit side without any cause, except for the purpose of making the whole completely incomprehensible. So far as the complication of figures in these accounts made it possible to judge, the Prince Regent had for his privy purse tion of those obligations of honour. If there were none such, however, the country would be relieved from the 53,000l. a year which had been allotted to that purpose; and they were at least entitled to see the accounts on this subject, or to be informed when such engagements are likely to cease. It had never been conceived even on the most extravagant calculation, that it could be necessary to give to a sovereign of this country such a sum at his uncontrouled disposal. A more beloved sovereign than our present King never sat upon the throne, yet his privy purse had for many years been 40,000l. and never exceeded 60,000l. The present arrangement opened an opportunity for abuse that ought not to be countenanced by parliament. On the House being satisfied respecting the amount of debt, or the probable period of its extinction, he might approve of the select committee; but he should not approve of it, except it were to have the power of calling persons before it, and of examining them touching all matters connected with the accounts. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that the Civil List had not kept within its former bounds; but the language of the most eminent and illustrious men that had ever sat in that House, was very different from what he now heard. Mr. Burke, Mr. Pitt, and Mr. Fox, always for snuff boxes, 7, 170l. 3s."-(A laugh.)To whom these snuff boxes had been given they had not been told, indeed they had not been informed whether they had really been disposed of. He had been told of a not very dissimilar item, in some former account of Civil List charge, namely, 754l. for a likeness of his Majesty, as a present to some general Paoli; but the general declared afterwards, that he never got any such picture (A laugh). Whether the snuff boxes had been equally unsuccessful in finding their destinations he could not divine agreed and maintained, that the Civil List should be made to fit its revenue; not that the revenue was to be made to fit the Civil List. It seemed, therefore, that there should be some diminution in those articles which were most expensive. As for the Prince's first expenditure on assuming the regency, there had been the 100,000l. specifically voted for it; and therefore they ought not to have heard any thing about furniture or plate. He thought of the expenditure of that sum, a specific statement ought to be laid on the table. Great additional sums had been voted last they might hereafter have some light year for the rest of the royal family. The thrown on this trifling item. As to the sums granted altogether to the royal family increase occasioned by the expences for amounted to 334,000l. There were also foreign ministers, he saw little to congralarge sums charged on the Consolidated tulate the House upon; for between Fund for the Queen and Princesses, and for Sweden and Denmark, and Norway and the royal Dukes. The whole, he believed, Great Britain, there appeared to be nothing was more than half a million. Looking but perplexity, whatever might have been over the list, it would be seen how little, the success with Russia. The Chancellor of comparatively, was given to the Princess the Exchequer, however, had smirked very Charlotte of Wales; she had only 6,000l. considerably when he came to this part of a year from the Civil List; but she had the account, conceiving that therewas much 7,000l. a year from the Consolidated Fund. cause for triumph in having laid out so He wanted to know whether that was the much money. Diplomatic men were enwhole of her establishment. If not, the titled certainly to reward, after employing money came from other sources: but their time and talents in the public service. there must soon be an increase of her Royal According to their condition in life, they Highness's establishment. He did not were justified in taking or declining the wish to deprive any of the branches of the remuneration; but that they did not alroyal family of their proper splendour, ways take it he knew, because he was acbut he wished that something like justice quainted with one case to the contrary. might be done, and that there should be The excess in this branch appeared enorsomething like an equality in the distribu- mous. The head of treasury incidents was tion. (Hear, hear!)-They saw the ex- one in which expence,by remunerating the cesses in the department of the Lord Cham- clerks, might be very proper; but he ob. berlain, for plate, furniture, &c.-of the served an increase of 5,000l. for messenMaster of the Horse, for the purchase of gers' fees. He thought it material for the horses, an account of which purchases he House to consider all these things in a should like to see; but amongst all these committee, as was done in 1782; but his excesses, they saw nothing for additional great jealousy was, concerning that great allowances to one who must be equally af- fund (of which they could obtain no acfected by the rise in the price of every ar- count as to its disposition) which was a ticle of life-who had only 17,000l. Was privy purse to the Prince Regent. He this equality of distribution? (Hear, must repeat, there was first 60,000l.; hear!)-As the Prince had his own plate then there would be 70,000l.; then, by as well as the King's, he could perceive relief from the income tax, 12,000l.; and no reason for any new charge on that lastly, by the duchy of Cornwall, 20,000l.; account, especially after 100,000l. had making 162,000l. per annum, independent been granted for the outfit. The fitting of contingencies, of droits, and 4 per up of the council chamber was mentioned; cents. and the hereditary revenue of Scotbut what great sum could that amount to? land. Mr. Adam said, 53,000l. were to be None of these expences came out of the under trust for a time, and 17,000l. a year 100,000l. for they were all charged now given to the Princess of Wales. Considerunder their respective departments. But ing the large allowances to the royal fathere were some curious items in the ac-mily, he thought that a larger allowance counts. Amongst other notable ones he ought to be granted to the Princess of perceived" to Messrs. Rundell and Bridge Wales, for the reasons on which excess |