understood the compact was, that twelve thoufand men fhould stay at home, and about 3000 men go on foreign fervice. He therefore afk ed, if more than 3000 men on foreign service, had been paid by Ireland, and whether in those 3000 contingent and warrant men were included?

Sir John Blaquiere answered, that no more than 3046 men of this eftablishment were on foreign fervice, in which contingent men were included; and that England paid not only the charge of recruiting our regiments, but four thousand men in English pay had been for four months in Ireland.

Colonel Burton confirmed Sir John's expla nations and ftatings, faying he was convinced there was no caufe of complaint, and that it was impoffible, if the number of regiments were kept up, to keep up their number of men. Mr. Barry Barry declared, that as by the augmentation the establishment was 15044 men, fo the original compact was, that 12815 men were to be at home, and only 2229 for foreign fervice. He then went into a long and circumftantial round of figures and calculations, proving that the expence of the augmentation had encreated 679121. a year above what it was estimated at; for the eftimate was 356911. and the expence had been 1038731.

Sir John Blaquiere repeated, that allowing for calualties of death and defertion, there can never be expected more than eleven out of twelve thousand effective men. This was corroborated by col. Browne.

Mr. Bushe faid, he could not imagine how any gentleman could vote against the motion, which was only a declaration of an undoubted matter of fact. Mr. Vice treasurer Flood replied, none would oppofe the refolution, but as it was the foundation of others to which they could not affent. Mr. Bufhe answered, fome amendment ought to be proposed, before it could be made a queftion.

Mr. Talbot then arofe, and avowed that he had voted for the augmentation, as it was a means of preventing an abfentee army; and the confequence had been, that the money forme ly paid for it, was now spent in the kingdom. He owned he did not think there had been any infringement of the compact, and should therefore join with administration.

Mr. Conolly allowed the compact to be nearly kept; but then faid, we had no fecurity for the future performance of it, as it had been now broke in upon, and that of course it was necessary to shew administration that we would not be trifled with in fmall matters of this kind, left in progreffion greater might be attempted.

Mr. Langrishe infifted gentlemen were not juftified to lay the compact had been broken; that a gentleman (Mr. Gardiner) had drawn the proper line, and made the true and juft diftinction, and that any deficiencies of number had better be at home, where there was a poffibility of recruiting, than the troops abroad, where they could not be recruited.

Mr. Conolly declared five regiments more were ordered for embarkation.

Sir John Blaquiere declared, that before they embarked we should have an equal number landed, and pledged himself to the houfe for the performance.

Mr. Conolly then, with the defire of many of his friends, withdrew the motion.

Sir John Blaquiere faid, we were debating on what had been done, not upon what was expected. He begged gentlemen to understand he pledged himfelf in no event, nor in any cafe, which was not immediately before the house; and that if any evil was to happen hereafter, then, and not now, would be the time to animadvert upon it.

Tuesday, November 14.

The house refolved into a committee of fupply (Mr. Malone in the chair) when his excellency's speech and the titles of all the reports and papers referred to the committee, were read.

Mr. attorney general moved to refolve, "that the debt of the nation on Lady-day, 1775, was a fum not exceeding 931,6111. Is. 9d. f."

It was then propofed by Mr. Barry to subtract from it the 2020l. for Mr. Dyson's two years penfion. But being acquainted that that bufinefs would come with more propriety on a fubfequent motion, it was poftponed, and the motion carried.

Mr. attorney general then moved, "that a fupply be granted to his majesty to pay the faid debt, to provide for the last establishments and other charges of government, from Ladyday 1775 to Lady-day 1777."-Carried.

"That 12000 effective men are neceffary to be maintained in this kingdom for the fame time, for the defence thereof."-Carried.

"That the augmentation of 3046 men be continued for the fame time."-Carried.

Mr. attorney general then gave notice, this was the proper time to make any motion relative to Mr. Dyfon's penfion.

Mr. Chapman defired the nineteen refolutions against penfions for the year 1703, to be read. He mentioned the promise given, that no more penfions for lives or years fhould be granted, excepting on extraordinary cafes; that Mr. Dyson's penfion was for his own and the lives of his three fons, or the furvivors. The refolution of Nov. 17, 1774, not to provide for his penfion was read, which paffed the committee by a majority of 1, and was confirmed in the house by a majority of 12, the numbers being 105 to 93. The king's letters for paying that penfion after the refolution was read. Mr. Chapman then faid he would not charge adminiftration or the crown with any fault in paying this penfion, as the king was not bound to take notice of any refolutions of the commons, unless they were laid before him by an addrefs, which had not been done-but he would prevent the like omiffion in future: For which end he moved to refolve, "That the annual penfion of 1000l. granted to Jeremiah Dyfon, Efq; his three fons, or the furvivor of them, ought not to be provided for." And if this was carried, he fhould then move to addrefs his excellency to lay the fame before his majesty.

Mr.

Mr. attorney general faid, all motions must be in the affirmative. On which Mr. Chapman confented to strike out the word not, and in confequence give it a negative.

Mr. Mafon argued, that the refolution against Mr. Dyfon's penfion was carried by a fmall majority in the year 1771, and must be confidered as virtually reicinded by a fubfequent committee of fupply, which had actually made provifion for that penfion.

He defended the honour of the crown from the imputation of having violated its faith, contained in a message communicated in the administration of the duke of Northumberland, to feveral members of the houfe of commons; whereby his majefty promifed, that for the future he would not grant penfions for years or lives, except on fome Special occafions, of which bis majefty referved the judgment intirely to bimfelf; maintaining, that, during a period of eight years fubfequent to that promile, no penfion for lives or years had been granted.That therefore no infraction of the royal promife could be fuppofed, when fo reasonable a referve was made.

Mr. attorney general defended his majesty's right to the difpotal of his hereditary revenue, which, though originally granted for public fervice, yet that the application and difpofal thereof was confidentially vested in his majefly alone, without whofe warrant notum or fums, not even the judges falaries, could iffue from the exchequer That th house had no conftitutional right to controul the crown in the difpofal of its revenues; the power of the commons extending only to fuch fums as were granted by them, and appropriated to particular fervices, to be accounted for to parliament That therefore the refolution propofed, viz. "That the annual penfion of 1000l. granted to Jeremiah Dylon, Efq; during the lives of his three fons or the furvivors of them, ought not to be provided for;" tended to invade the prerogative, and would in the end prove nugatory and impotent; befides, that his majefty having in this cate granted a penfion for lives, he could not revoke his grant, therefore the gentlemen on the other fide required an impoffibility.

Mr. Tighe, captain Hamilton, captain Jephfon, and Mr. Carlton, spoke in defence of the penfion, and urged that the refolution of 1771 fhould not in any degree affect the refolution of 1775

They were answered by Mr. Barry, Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. Yelverton, Mr. Conolly, captain Willon, and Mr. Gardiner; but in particula: by Mr. Yelverton, who replied, That the question was, whether the refolutions of the house, or the reprefentations of Jeremiah Dylon, were of the most weight? That it concerned the honour and confiftency of the hau.e. That if we depended fo much en Great-Britain, we ought to keep the fountain clear, by not furnishing the means of corruption. That now it was to be tried whether this was a free Irish parliament, or only a French parliament, bound to register every edict of its king. That this houfe was defigned as a check on the crown, and that the

act quoted by the military gentleman (captain Hamilton) was not in point; he had quoted it himfelf tome days ago, and given the history of it; and declared that the revenue was appropriated to a fociety called the brotherhood of St. George, for the purpose of clearing the Irish feas of pirates and privateers.

Mr. folicitor general Scot maintained not only the right, but the expediency of the penfion in question, that Mr. Dylon had merited the favour of his majefty by his fervices, and that it would be bad policy with refpect to the intereft of this kingdom, to endeavour to counteract his majelly's intentions, as Mr. Dylon might be of important fervice, and had always manifefted a friendly difpofition towards this kingdom.

Mr. Conolly faid, penfions on the Irish eftablishment given to British members, was undermining the conflitution of one country, at the expence of another.

Sir John Blaquiere clofed the debate by faying, he did not rife to difcufs at that late hour the merits of a question, which was now for the fecond time brought before the houie.That he must however obferve, that he would not put fuch an indignity upon the house of commons, as to fuppose they were to wanting in widom and information as to have neglected taking the proper means of obtaining redrefs, if they thought themselves injured in the grant of Mr. Dylon's penfion.-That they certainly meant to mark but not oppose it, or they would have followed their relolution by an addrefs, in the manner which had been mentioned by a right honourable gentleman (the attorney general)-that he was as much a friend to confiftency as any man in the house, and would honour it alike whether it came from the one or the other fide of it; and that according to his apprehenfions there could be nothing more confiftent than approving of the prefent refolution, even upon the ground of a former oppofition to it-that they had not the fmallest affinity together-the facts marked it -If the refolution of 1771 went beyond the period of that feffion of parliament, wherefore renew it in 1775; and if in 1773 it were to be binding upon us, why fhould the honourable gentleman propofe the refolution of this day? And the fame rule of argument holds with regard to the prefent refolution, which cannot have the smallest retrospect upon the time when it paffed-there are reasons now, and they have appeared, why the prefent refolution is prope: there may have been reasons then, and they do not appear, why if may have been inexpedient to have adopted it at that time. The committee divided on the question,

Ayes 94 Teller, Mr. Maion.

Noes 70

Teller, Mr. Chapman. Friday, Nov. 17.] Mr. Barry Barry read in his place fome articles from the English publications, refpecting what lord Bartington had faid about recruiting papifts in Ieland, where in his lordship not only avowed the meafure, but declared that he had advifed it, and Mr. Barry Barry made feveral very fevere animadverfions upon it.

Sir

Sir John Blaquiere replied, that as all the orde.s which had been iffued for recruiting the army had been laid before the house at that honourable gentleman's defire, and as it appeared that proteftants only had been directed to be inlifted, he was pe.fuaded the honourable gentleman would be candid enough to give Credit to the administration which had forborne to iffue fuch improper orders, fuppofing that any fuch had even been received.

Mr. Attorney General then proceeded to move the feveral resolutions respecting the duties on imports and exports, and other impofts towards the lupply.

When the duty of 25. per barrel on all beer and ale, not exceeding the value of fix fhillings per barrel was moved, Sir Lucius O'Brien propofed eight inftead of fix fhillings, and a long converfation enfued, in which Sir Lucius O'Brien, Mr. French, Mr. Redmond Morres, Mr. Ponionby, Mr. Yelverton, and Mr. Montgomery (of Cavan) poke for lowering the duty on beer and ale, to encourage the Irish brewery; but Mr. Beresford, Sir John Blaquiere, Mr. Malon, and Mr. Langrishe, who wished to aid the brewery, thought the best way would be by difcouraging the diftilling of spirits, and not altering the duty on beer. At length the refolution was poftponed till to-morrow.

Sir John Blaquiere fpoke for a confiderable time, Itating the great decline of the brewery, and the caules of it; and he endeavoured particularly to fhew, that the importation of Englith beer into this kingdom was by no means one of the caules of it; for, that if not only the duty, but the whole prime cost of the English beer imported was thrown into the fcale, the excife on beer in Ireland would ftill be comparatively lefs than it was ten years ago. Mr. Beresford entered into a minute and very fatisfactory detail of the ftate of the brewery at Corke, thewing how much more it was the intereft of the brewer himlelf to ufe proper materials in his trade, than fuch as poisoned the people. On the whole, the house became almost unanimous on the point, that certain regulations only could be adopted for the prefent, among which the duties on spirits were to be the firft object for confideration.

Notice having been given yesterday that Sir John Blaquiere intended to move for a repeal of that part of the law which laid a tax of 4 fhillings in the pound on the generals and colonels of the army; he rofe as a fuppliant, he faid, to the houfe, in behalf of a fet of men who were univerfally refpected in the community, but who had been inconfiderately injured by that bill.-The houfe, he faid, had fhewn a remorfe at what they had done by hav ing to repeatedly made alterations in this particular; though the great hardship still remain ed. That gentlemen did not know that it was by prefcription in this and every other army that general officers, when they were promoted to that rank, were not only exempted, but rendered, as it were, incapable of doing regimental duty, unlefs by the fpccial appointment of his Majefty-that he was perfuaded they ftill lefs knew the fituation of that man whom

they had affeffed and oppreffed; few gentlemen in the army obtained the command of a regiment in less than twenty or five and twenty years fervice, many more at thirty-that. their health, their youth, and commonly their belt patrimony, was wafted in the fervice of their country-that it was with painful labour and many dry blows, without always lying upon a bed of down, that they obtained their rank; and in the decline of their life received as their best reward, what? a regiment of infantry, wh.ch he pledged himself to the house was not worth 650l. a year-that the great principle of the law bringing the absentees to refide was defeated, he contended for it, for that he believed gentlemen fometimes ftayed away left it should be conceived that they were averie to contribute what was called their quota to the exigencies of the state-it was a pride, and not an unpardonable one, natural to the character-that he had done it himself that the attention of the houfe to the army was what he more contended for, and what would be more acceptable to the officers than the value of the emolument.-He ftated it very pathetically, and with vifible emotion to himself, concluding with faying, that if any thing he had faid thould induce the house to attend to an object which was the nearest to his heart, he should wear it as the first feather in his cap for the rest of his days.

Mr. Chapman faid, that ill as this country could bear the relinquishment of any tax at this time, he thought the propofition of the right hon. gentleman fo juft, humane, and proper, he would give it his hearty affent, Mr. Yelverton fpoke to the fame purpofej

Mr. Buthe role to declare that he came into the houle, prepoffeffed against the motion, but that he was fo fatisfied with what had been faid on the fubject, he should cordially agree to it. And Mr. Ponlonby in the ftrongest terms applauded the humanity of the mealure; which, to the honour of the generosity of the house of commons of Ireland, was carried with unanimity.

-Mr.

Saturday, November 18. Committee of ways and means. Attorney General moved, that the fum of 175,000l. fhould be railed by life annuities, with benefit of furvivorship.

Mr. Forfter then role, calling upon Sir John Blaquiere to prove the neceffity of railing fuch a fum, which he thouid endeavour to fhew was not wanting.

Sir John Blaquiere in reply faid, that as he already, in a long and he feared a tedious manner, had explained this to the house, and hoped he had fatisfied them, he fubmitted it to the hon. gentleman, whether it would not be proper for him to fhew that a lefs fum would fuffice.

Mr. Forfter then offered feveral arguments and calculations relative to the arrear, and tending to prove, that if credit were given to the nation for 39,000l. due on the hearth money account, and for 31,000l. due by quit rents; that thefe two fums, together with a

faving of 5000l. in treasury fees, &c. would reduce the arrear due to 100,000l. He exhibited a charge of improvidence in the collection of the revenues, particularly the ftamp duties, and argued, that the distributors in the feveral counties, at 50l. per ann. Salary, were unneceffary officers, as all perfons wanting ftamps, must neceffarily fend for them to whatever place they were to be had. He expatiated on the great increase in the incidental charges of the revenue, and on the general expence of collecting the revenues, which he faid amounted to better than 15 per cent. when the revenues of Great Britain were collected at fix. And finally moved for an alteration of the Attorney General's motion for raising 175,000l. by inferting the sum of 100,000l. in ftead thereof.

Sir John Blaquiere rofe, and followed Mr. Forster very minutely into every article of his charge he admired, and did ample justice to the ingenuity and ability which Mr. Forfter had displayed he then ran through both the fictitious and real arrear-fhewed the incorrectnefs of making up the public accounts, which was juftified, however, by the practice of office, under the orders of parliament for near 50 years he encountered, with great perfpicuity, the charge of increafe on the establishments, and called upon the houfe to call to their bar the officers of the feveral departments, to difprove, if they could, what he faid-he faid it would then appear which was the fophiftical arguer, the hon. gentleman or himfelf-they were facts, ftubborn and unmerciful, that would fhew favour to neither. That it was, and he relied upon it, facts, and not majorities, that fupported minifters, and afforded them their best protection; for he fhould not debafe the character of a gentleman fo much as to fuppofe, that for the confideration of a paltry aye, (and turning round to a right hon. gentleman who fat near him) or an important office, that they would iuffer him to force fuch doctrines upon them, if they were not founded in truth.-To that part of Mr. Forster's charge, that the revenues and taxations upon ftamps in Great Britain were collected at an expence of not more than fix per cent. whilft thofe of Ireland were collected at more than 12, he gave this very decifive anfwer, that they had nothing to do but double the tax, which was to be done with the stroke of a pen, and that then indeed the expence of collection would be no more than that in Great Britain.

Mr. Beresford, in answer to the objections made to the increafe of the charges of the revenue, fhewed, that in the period between 1751 and 1757, the expences of management of the revenue had increased upwards of 2500l. That between 1757 and 1763, a period of the fame number of years, they had increafed upwards of 5oool. That between 1763 and 1769, when fome removes in the revenue department took place, they had increafed not lefs than 15,000l. and, that between 1769 and the moment at which he then spoke, the isceafe had not been quite 2000l. notwith

standing the commiffioners were now obliged to fit out cruizers of much fuperior force, to employ, pay, and victual a greater number of men; whereas before the ceffion of the Ife of Man to the crown fmaller veffels and fewer men were fufficient-that a new port had been established, which made it neceffary to eftablish a new fuit of officers for that port-that a confiderable expence had been incurred by fome neceffary endeavours to counteract a notorious neft of fmugglers at Annalong in the North of Ireland and, amongst several other articles of increafed expence, that of itamp duties for the ufe of the revenue, to the amount of 3000!.

At length the committee divided on the queftion of Mr. Forster's amendment, Ayes, 46 Teller, Mr. Forfter.

Noes, 88 Teller, Mr. Mafon. Monday, Nov. 21.] After the committee of accounts had adjourned, Sir John Blaquiere rofe, and faid a meffage was arrived from his majesty, which he intended to communicate to the house on Thursday next; that he hoped the house would be full, in confequence of this notice, as the meffage would require to be referred to the confideration of the whole houfe.

Thursday, Nov. 23.] At about four o'clock Sir John Blaquiere rofe:-He faid the unhappy fituation of affairs with regard to America (for he wished not unneceffarily to use any harth expreffions, though he fhould be fully authorifed to do fo from the refolutions of our own as well as the British parliament) had made it requifite for his majefty to call on his faithful fubjects of Ireland to give that teft of their loyalty and zeal, which his majesty had been at all times warranted to expect, even if the house had not fo recently pledged itself upon it. -He defired gentlemen not to think that he meant to force a construction which was never meant-Parliament had pledged itself in its loyalty and zeal, little more was asked from them-They were defined only to fupport his majefty in upholding his just rights and his legal authority-No fupplies were asked, becaule it was very well known that the prefent fituation of the country would not bear it.

The question which this meffage would bring before the house, was confined to a narrow compass, and was fimply this-Whether at a time when the empire of Britain was fhaken to its very foundations, Ireland thould take part with England or with America ? or whether it fhould take that part unbecoming or dishonourable to herself, a cold and indifferent neutrality, which would be equally offenfive to both That by the message, four thousand men would be required of the number of troops appointed to be kept at home for the defence of the kingdom;-That Great-Britain would eafe this country of the expence :-That an equal number of foreign proteftants, without any charge to this country, would be brought in, if it appeared to be the defire of parliament; for the parliament was made the arbiter of every part of the mere. To speak plainly, he faid, the meffage might fairly be feparated into two parts -The firft was, the king's de

fire that four thousand men fhould be spared from this country upon the prefent exigency, to be paid by Great Britain;-that this he would avow was the measure of government; that it would have its beft fupport, and he hoped would meet with the approbation of the houfe:The other was totally optional to gentlemen; by which he meant to fay, that adminiftration would ce tainly take no other part in it than by furthering, with its best endeavours, whatever should appear to be the defire of parliament. With regard to the foreign troops, he thought it poffible that gentlemen might except against certain expreffions in the meffage, as inconclufive or equivocal. There were, he said, certain British statutes (naming the 10th of king William, extended by the 8th of the prefent king) which were thought to militate in fome degree against the measure. No gentleman, he faid, could think of moving for an alteration of these statutes till it fhould be first known whether the parliament of Ireland defired it, which being once determined, there could be very little doubt of its being done, fince the fenfe of the British parliament had been almost uniform upon the fub ject, declared by majorities of more than three to one, but in every cafe the engagement was eventual only. He then read the meffage, which was afterwards read from the chair, expreffing his majefty's reliance on the loyalty and zeal of his faithful fübjects of this kingdom, and defiring the concurrence of parliament to enable him to fend out of it upon the prefent exigency of affairs a force not exceed. ing four thousand men, the charge of which were to be difcontinued on this establishment; and offering to replace the fame by an equal number of foreign proteftant troops, if the parliament of Ireland fhould defire it, the charge of fuch to be alfo defrayed without expence to this kingdom.

Sir John Blaquiere then moved the house to refolve itself into a committee on Saturday next, to take his excellency's metfage into confide

tation.

Mr. Ogle then moved, that it be an inftruction to the faid committee to confider on the best method to be taken for the defence of this kingdom, which was agreed to.

Friday, Nov. 24.] In a committee, (Mr. Conolly in the chair,) on heads of a bill to repeal certain claufes in an act paffed laft feffion for the repair of churches; made fome progrefs, and got leave to fit again on Tuesday next.

Saturday, Nov. 25.] The houfe was called over, and refolved into a committee to take into confideration his excellency's message, and the inftruction to confider on the beft mode of defence for this kingdom. (Mr. Malone in the chair.)

The order for going into the committee, his excellency's meffage, and the order for the inftruction was read.

Sir Archibald Achefon rofe, and made many eulogiums on his majefty, whom, he said, we ought to look upon as the father of a much favoured people, and then propofed to offer two refolutions, in fubftance as follow:

December, 1775

་ 1. Refolved, that it is the opinion of this committee, that in the prefent exigency of af fairs, a number of troops not exceeding four thousand, out of the number of twelve thou. fend, voted as neceffary to be kept in Ireland for the defence thereof, be fpared for his majefty's fervice abroad, provided that from their quitting this kingdom, they fhall be of no charge to the nation."

"2. Refolved, that it is the opinion of this committee, that a number of foreign prote!tant troops, not exceeding four thousand, be received into this kingdom to replace the like number fent abroad, for the fecurity and de-. fence thereof, provided they shall be of no charge to the nation."

Having read these two refolutions, Sir Archibald Achefon moved the committee to agree with the first.

Col. Rois feconded the motion, and obferved, this measure would be a faving to the nation of 83,000l. a year.

Mr. Hellen laid, the meffage was the most respectful that ever came from a lovereign to his people. That it confirmed and allowed the compact for keeping 12,000 men here at all times, and that it would not be violated, by withdrawing one of thofe men, without the concurrence of parliament; and was a pledge that the men requefied of the house would be returned to the nation as soon as the exigency fhall ceale.

Mr. Ponionby allowed that we ought to fuppot Great Britain, if it can be done with juftice, prudence and humanity. That if the troops were fent abroad without asking our confent, then we should not be made parties in the quarrel. But if we give our confent, we shall how we take a determined part against America.

Mr. John Fitzgibbon entered into a recapitulation of all that had paffed between Great Britain and her colonies, from the last war to the prefent time, and concluded that the war was unjuit, and Íreland had no reason to be a party therein.

Sir John Blaquiere replied, the refolutions before the committee tended to verify and realize the profeffions of loyalty made by the house. To this, gentlemen might confent, without agreeing to the other, if they thought fit to fubmit to a fhort temporary inconveniency, rather than receive foreign troops, which would only be fent at the defire of the houfe.

Sir Edward Newenham faid, as he had gi ven his negative to the addrefs, which denounced vengeance against his fellow fubjects, he could not agree to the fending of more troops to butcher men who were fighting for their liberty.

Mr. Carleton fpoke a long time to prove there could be no danger of a precedent making against us; and he enlarged on the evil confequences that would enfue from irritating Great-Britain by refufing this request.

Mr. Langrishe, in an answer to fome apprehenfions fuggefted, that taxation laws might probably hereafter be extended to this country, Ddddd