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shew the incapacity of providing for such heavy eftablishments.]

Sir John Blaquiere being thus informed of the whole icope of Mr. Yelverton's motions, opposed them, and stated the real condition of the arrear, as it appeared to him, in a speech of two hours and forty-three minutes, during which time he made repeated apologies to the house for his inabilities as an orator, &c. He faid, he would not diffent from the motion now before the committee, only on account of the fubfequent motions. He allowed that there was an arrear, but not near to great as iome gentlemen imagined, or as appeared on the accomptant-general's papers; and that this area had been unavoidably incurred, not only by the failure of the revenue, but from the extent of premiums, paid in confequence of the authority of parliament, but which exceed ed what parliament had provided for. He then went through the state of establishments, article by article, pointing out what was the arrear returned, what the real arear, and why was faved: the particulars of which Jovis nequer-saving, 830l. 178. od. h. King's Bench-laving, 151. 10s. 8d. h. Chancery-aving, 13351. 19s. od. h. Common Pleas nothing.

State Officers-faving, 270l. 11s. id. Incidents-aving, 11401. 15s. 3d. f. Cuftom Officers-laving, 2181. Is. od. f. Perpetuities-lo far from having any arrear, there was a credit of 7351. 118. 10d.

Commiffioners of appeals-laving, 321. 118.

od. h.

Non-conforming minifters-none. Penfions, 3711. 168. id. h. might be ftruck off entirely.

So that upon the article of the civil lift, charged as 101,4311. 12s. 2d. h. mult be flruck off, as a fictitious arrear, the fum of 48121. 45. 5d. h. which leaves the real arrear on that head to be only 966191. 7s. 9d.

In respect to the heads of the military eftablishment, the fictitious artear is also very confiderable.

General Officers-faving, 12361.

The heads of bor fe, foot, and dragoons, together with the warrant men-the real arrear is only 123,3261. on the first head, leaving a faving of 95831. and on the second a fictitious arrear of 117111. 4s. id. f.

Additional pay in Dublin-a fictitious arrear of 9541. 2s. 6d.

Half-pay Officers- a fictitious arrear of 101221. 138. 4d. h.

Military penfions, the charge of 90611.9s. 6d. must be reduced to 53201, 5s. 20. f.

Barracks, the charge of 23341. 2s. 6d. totally taken away, being all a fictitious arrear. And from allowances in lieu of stoppages from the pay of the private men of dragoons and infantry, must be subtracted 561. 9s. 1d. So that upon the article of military establishment, instead of the fum charged, 2050171. 19s. 1od. the real arrear is only 1771061. 19s. 2d. f. leaving a faving of 279111. os. 7d. b. f.

Under the article of extraordinary charges, instead of the charged arrear of 42001). 175. 4d. h. the real arrear is but 339431. 135. 7d. leaving a laving of 80581. 38. 9d. h. Atruck off from the head of bounty to the linen manufacture, charged as 110581. 38. 9d. h. Upon the whole account it appears, that instead of 1,244,4771. 18s. 7d. f. charged on the accomptant general's paper, No. III. the real arrear is but 307,7171.—to liquidate which, we must now confider what is not ne ceffary to be provided for, what really is, and what fums we have now in hand. It is propoled then to strike off entirely 5000l. charged for building offices for public records, and 20,8311. 45. charged to fupport and clothes militia, neither of which fums are now wanted, fo that diminishes the arrear of 307,717, to the fum of 281,8851. 16s. to anfwer which there are in collectors hands 81,2681. 158. 10d. 7-8th. Ditto of up duties, 4301. 28. n of corn premiums, 1,3241. 15. 6d. h. the real unavoidable arrear to be provided for, which with fundry other balances, leave only the fum of 178,000l. 155. 8d. h. It may be reasonably asked how this real arrear be came unavoidably incurred? The answer is, the parliament pledged itself last feffion to provide for all exceedings on premiums on the land carriage of corn, above 35,000l. Thole exceedings have amounted to no less than 33,5771. 3s. 4d. which cannot be laid at the door of government. There has been also an exceeding of 1800l. a year on stoppages not calculated, and feveral branches of the revenue have fallen fhort of what they were expected to bring in to equalize the income to the expence of government. The duty on tobacco decreased last year 34,5441. 55. 100. and that on rum decreafed 19,0991. Sir John then ftated particularly and minutely the increate on every article of the establishments, and accounted how they arofe. On the head of penfions about 19,000l. had been added in four years, and above 18,000l. had furceafed, fo that the encrease on that article was only 4231. and that arofe from giving fome compenfation to the difcharged officers of the revenue, on uniting the boards-but the future expences of the establishments would be greatly dimi nished. By the new regulations of the military, which took place the 4th of last Auguft, there will be an annual faving of 25,8501. 138. 6d. f. and on the article of half-pay a faving of 7,5381. 185. 118,

Having now come at the real arrear, it will be proper to strike off entirely upwards of 40,000l. which conftantly appeared on the ac counts, though only fictitious, and no fuch liquidation has been fince the year 1724. This must be done by the king's letter. Then, to fa tisfy the real arrear, he would propose a new tontine, with the additional advantage of giving the purchafers the full benefit of furvivor fhip, and a duty on fpirits which would encou-, rage the brewery; for a barrel of mak, brew. ed into ale, pays an excife of 75. 10d. and when diftilled into fpirits it pays only 4s. 40 A duty of 6d. per gallon on foreign, and 4d.

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per gallon on rum and home fpirits, would aniwer the end, and be an act of justice to the brewer, and a prefervative to the morals of the people.

A duty on coals having been lately mentioned as an expedient for the relief of the foundling hospital, feemed to meet his disapprotation, as it would inevitably inhance the price of that neceffary article on the poor of this city and its neighbourhood; and that the inftitution merited a more liberal and extenfive fupport than could be fupposed to arise from fuch a local tax, and the more to as that charity is of national concern.

He animadverted, with great humanity, on the diftrelled fituation of the ancient and reduced foldiery of Kilmainham, who have heretofore been much diftreffed from the delays of payment, and the consequential extortion of uturers, propofing that, for the future, they fhall be paid by advance, which will afford them the full benefit of that provifion, which they derive from the humanity of their citablishment, without incurring further expence to the public.

After the ftate of the accounts had been made, Mr. Ponsonby, in few words, diffented to this mode, and oblerved, that additional taxes always injure the revenue. He laid, that fuch was now the miferable ftate of this nation, that nothing was left to tax but our Lands; and that from people high in adminiftration he was warranted to lay, fuch a tax was in agitation; and that in o der to wheedle us into this deftructive meature, it would be propoled to ftrike off all the additional duties. By this mode, he told the house, their power over government would ceafe; for the ordinary revenue would, by a natural encreale, when the duties were leffened, pay the ordinary expences of government, and the tax of 6d. per pound be a pure in the ministers' hands fufficient to carry them though any meafure, however deftructive to the people. with observing, that now or never, was the time to p event this threatened evil.

He concluded

Mr. Pontonby was followed by Mr. Yelverton, who took a retrospective view of each adminiftration, from the lieutenancy of his gace the duke of Bedi ord. He gave extracts from every chief governor's ipeech, all of which promifed economy and retrenchments, excepting that of lord Townshend. He pro ved, that in every administration the debt of the nation encreated, and confequently that we were running with accelerated fwiftnefs to bankruptcy. That from a state of wealth, and redundancy in our treasury, we were now, miferably reduced to a state of infolvency; that we owed more than a million of money, and that our penfion lift was fwelled to the eBormous annual grievance to the kingdom of $593381.

Mr. Chapman faid, the minister had not drawn a fair picture of affairs; one fact too evidently notorious to be denied, remained uncontradicted-namely, that the charges of the establishments had encreated, on taking into the accounts the retrenchment of parliamentary December, 1775

grants, to no lefs a fum than 45,000l. in the last two years.

Mr. Langrifhe entered on a vindication of the pretent administration; and endeavoured to prove Sir John's calculation to be juft, and followed the very fame mode of his right hon. friend.

Mr. Bushe went very minutely into the ac counts of particular departments, and oblerved there was one argument incontrovertible; which was, that our expences were not equalized to our revenue, and that we were confiderably involved in debt by the prefent adminiftration; which proof, he obferved, falfified the fecretary's word, as well as the lord lieutenant's fpeech, which promiled economy and reduction. He was pointedly fevere, and fpoke with great clearnefs, perfpicuity and judgment.

Mr. Conolly in a very judicious manner obferved that as the tontine, or (as that word was called a vulgar expreffion by the right hon. gentleman) the life annuities boie a premium of fix guinea, he could not fee any reason for making the prefent one more advantageous to the purchafers; that fuch conduct was the highest infult to thofe who had fsubscribed to the former tontine, and a fpecies of ministerial gambling, which abfolutely picked the pockets of the people; that if the right hon. member meant to deal honefly by the public, he would give, in fimilar fchemes, equal advan tages.

The question was then put on Mr. Yelverton's motion, and passed in the negative, The Ayes being 71

The Noes

108

Thursday, Nov. 2.] Accounts, eftimates and petitions brought in, committed and went through (Mr. Barry Barry in the chair) "Heads of a bill for explaining and amending an act for preventing the erecting of linekilns in the city and fuburbs of Dublin."

Monday, Nov. 6.] The houfe met and went up to the caftle with the add efs of thanks to his majefty, and being come back;

The committee of accounts fat, and ordered in fome new accounts.

Tuesday, Nov. 7.] The committee proceeded in the bufinels of accounts, when Sir John Blaquiere faid, the e was a mistake in his statement of the fictitious arrear, which on a clofer inspection he found was larger than he th ught; fo that the money to be required was 33341. 7. 6d. lefs than firft mentioned, and inftead of 178090l. 15s. 8d. there would be afked for only 1747531. 8s. 2d. h.

Wednesday, Nov. 8.] Mr. Gorges Lowther reported from the committee appointed to take the ftate of the penfions into confideration, the report was read, and confifted of eleven refolutions, ftating the charges for the two years, ending laft Lady-day, and the arrears not paid at that time, an eft mate how much the penfions had exceeded all the other charges of the civil eftablishment, and fome refolves of the evil tendency of penfions, and calling in queftion the right of the crown to bestow them. Ссссс

Mr.

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744

History of the prefent Seffion of Parliament,

Mr. Langrifhe infifted the very first refolution of the committee was founded in error, as not ftating the true arrear, for, fince the right hon. gentleman (Sir John Blaquiere) had ftated the fictitious arrear, and had but yefter day made an allowance of a mistake, amounting to upwards of 3000l. the report of the comm tee of accounts would return fums different from that now before the house, which could not agree to two contradictory reports: Befides, no evidence, no proof had been reported on which the refolutions were founded, that in fome of their laft refolves they have at once decided the long difputed point of the king's right to grant penfions for lives or long terms of years. He thought the king had that right, for the hereditary revenues were, many of them, unappropriated; and the commons had allowed that right, by pathing the pension accounts for many years; therefore as it was impoffible to agree to the prefent report, he moved the confiderat on of it fhould be postponed to the 1ft of July next.

Mr. Ponfonby faid, it was true, the right hon. gentleman's ftating yesterday, had cauled an error in the accounts, which might be rectified on a re-committal, and need not be put off to fuch a long day.

Mr. Chapman infifted that Mr. Langrifhe, by "his motion for poftponing it until the first day of July next, meant to poftpone it to a period when the prefent parliament would not exift. To which Mr. Langrishe replied, that the prefent parliament did not legally expire until the first day of Auguft next. To which it was rejoined that either day was equal as to the effect. Major Boyle Roche, with the spirit of a foldier, rather than the graces of an orator, , defended the king's right to difpofe of his hereditary revenue in the reward of his fervants, or others who may have a just title to the favour of their prince. He d fplayed the utmost refentiment at that fanatical ipirit and puritanic obftinacy, which has lown up the flames of rebellion in America

Mr. Ogle obferved, as to the penfion lift, that there were many hon. names in the catalogue, and that no man was farther from denying indigent merit its reward, than he was; that he would, from the bottom of his heart, with to smooth the pillow for that aged head, which had been wakeful in its country's weal; but, that he could not look over the black lift without horror, for it was there he faw the rich pampered with the hard earnings of poverty, and therefore fhould oppofe the refolutions being poftponed.

Captain Jephfon alledged Mr. Dyfon's penfion to have been granted under a former adminiftration, and probably for fervices done even to this country,, to which he had ever been a friend, and that it had been paid out of the king's hereditary revenue, to which revenue his majesty had an undoubted right, it having been granted to him in exchange for forfeitures which had devolved to the crown. marked, in terms elegant and pathetic, the cruelty of endeavouring to circumfcribe the royal clemency and benignity, and of leaving

Dec.

majefty nothing to exhibit to the people but its terrific attributes.

Mr. Yelverton asked, why the house appointtirely off? If no enquiry was intended, why ed a committee if the report was to be put enwas not the appointing the committee oppointroduced, but the name of majesty is terrible fed? the name of majefty, he faid, has been only to offenders. Is there a villain who ftabs his country, or a man who only ftings for want of power to wound,-his name is to be found in the penfion list;-the name of George Charles is there, as a fcreen for a pension granted to a foreign ambaffador, for negociating a fhameful peace;-there were in that lift, the British houfe, that Britain had a right to tax names of men, who had dared to say in the Ireland. He then quoted, with great steadines of temper and recollection a number of itstutes to prove the appropriation of the hereditary

revenue.

Sir John Blaquiere, recalling the attention fubject, directed himself to the immediate of gentlemen who had wandered from the object of confideration as recommended by viations of major Roche, who had been mifMr. Yelverton; apologized for the natural defuch a principal and honourable actor;-That led by his zeal in a caufe where he had been he should not go ac ofs the Atlantic with his worthy friend, neither should he think it neceffary to carry the king of Pruffia, at the head of a great battering train of artillery, to the gates of Dantzic, in order to convince the free citizens of Dublin, that the houfe of commens of Ireland had not a right to dispose of its own money,

That the hon. gentleman who spoke last, had expreflions of a certain comic author," Finely drawn a picture of this country, to use the confufed and very alarming; he would undertake to investigate the truth on which fuch opin ons were founded he would follow the hon. gentleman upon the conftitutional ground into every act which he had quoted, he trufted of the ftatutes of parliament, and if he went the houfe would not impute it to a pedantic affectation of engaging in a fubject upon which he could not be fuppofed to be competent with the hon. gentleman-he did it upon compulfion, and with a view to draw a contrary inference entirely from what the learned gentleman had done-that he would, however, carefully avoid quoting any ftatute which was the existence of the 15th of Edward IV. grantnot upon their books, tho' he fhould not deny George, for it made precifely to his purpose ing the first poundage to the fraternity of St.

the confirmation of that act of the 15th of Henry VII. put him upon that ground, on which he could not be shaken-that he would be bold to affert, it granted thofe duties to the king limitation whatfoever-it was the estate of without any appropriation, fpecification, or the crown-the grant was free, gene al, and and tender, he should fpeak of it even with And reunrestrained-it was a fubject fo very delicate more diffidence and trepidation than the hon. gentleman, (turning to Mr. Langrithe) because

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he knew he fhould do it with lefs ability that the feveral acts quoted by Mr. Yelverton were fome of them, as he had expreffed, limited, appropriated, and not to be aliened; he had, however, totally omitted one, which he would mention; true, it was an English act, the 11th and 12th of king William-it was not his wifh to quote English acts of parliament to the house; but this, befides being fo neceffary for his purpofe, marked fuch an attention to this country, he could not forbear, for the quit rents, &c. which are granted to the king by that act, are exprefly forbid to be charged with any grant, penfion, or incumbrance whatsoever they are granted for the support of his majesty's government; fo is the f excife granted for the army; even the hearth money, which the crown purchased by the courts of wards and liveries, has its appropriation alfo; it is the fame of the ale licences of the 14th and 15th of Charles-he agreed, with the learned gentleman, the act of tonnage and poundage alone of the same feffion, which is a confirmation of the 15th of Henry VII. ftands unlimited and restrained, only with a provision for the guarding of the feas; and will any gentleman take upon him to fay that they are not guarded and defended-he faid the intention was marked, it could not be ftronger; that the act of excife, with its limitations, paffed first-that in the fame feffion of parliament, the hearth money, alike appropriated, was granted-that the act of tonnage and poundage came between, unlimited and unrestrained, and must have been fo, becaule the legislature muft well have known, it was not in its power to grant it otherwife that he wifhed not to establish the right further than it had been denied and contefted; but if we were forced to go into the queftion, he would venture in half an hour to prove, even to the value of a fixpence, the eftate which the crown had a right to call its own; but he de fired, he befeeched gentlemen not to go into the difcuffion. As an Irishman, if he might be allowed to ufe fo honourable an epithet to himself, he contended for it, that it was not the intereft of this country to draw that line which the hon. gentleman had recommended -if penfions had been improvidently granted, let the improper exercife of the right be queftioned, but not the right itfel-let it not be the province of this house to inform the minifter (for you may not always have fo good a one) to what extent he may go-that an improvident exercife of the power could never be more improperly brought into question, than at the prefent moment; for the penfion lift at this day, compared with that on which lord Townshend landed in Ireland, was diminished by upwards of 4000l. per ann. and in the grants made were to be included the penfions given to the difmiffed commiffioners, &c. amounting to near 5000l. per ann, and there is befides another faving of 3000l. a year, which every gentleman who heard him, he was perfuaded, would regret had been made by the death of an amiable and much refpected princefs, the filter of our lovereign-that with

regard to fome trifling penfions, of a few hundred pounds a year, which might or might not have been bestowed with indiscrimination, they were objects too contemptible for the house to confider.-But upon the favourite scheme of the hon. and learned gentleman, the penfion granted under a fictitious name, which he fo earnestly recommends, out of decency and re fpect to the houfe, he would be bold to affert

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was the most criminal and unconstitutional ceeding that could be adopted;-he knew of no villain, rogue, or parafite upon the lift, but he would take it upon him to fay, there was no villain fo black, none that ever difgraced the records of hiftory, which would not conftitutionally be a better name to the house than that of the fictitious man who never yet existed;-it would be a grant, gentlemen might fay, for the purposes of corruption, and then they might complain.

With regard to what had been faid on the tax of abfent placemen and penfioners, it was not his idea that that tax, taking the times as they went, appeared to him both just and reasonable; and when the ftate of affairs in this country fhould mend, he was convinced there would be found generofity enough in the house to relinquish it ;-and he concluded, that he fhould not oppofe the refolutions merely from their inaccuracies and millatings;-that he had rofe to encounter the principles upon which they were formed, but as he wifhed not to difcourage fuch enquiries entirely, instead of giving them his full negative, he agreed with Mr. Langrifhe to poftpone the confideration of the question to a day, when the house would not be fitting, namely, the firft of July.

Ayes for poftponing till the first of July, 114
Noes,

81

Thursday Nov. 9.] The committee of accounts made a farther progrefs in the ac

counts.

Friday, Nov. 10.] Sundry petitions were received, reports from committees on petitions made, and several heads of bills ordered in.

Saturday, Nov. 11.] The fame business continued. Mi Mafon made the report from the committee of accounts.

Monday, November 13.] After fome petitions had been prefented, fome reports made, and Mr. Barry Barry had moved for feveral accounts of faving;

Mr. Conolly opened the debate: He obferv ed, that this day it was intended by the houfe to take into confideration a fut ject in which he was particularly interefled, the augmentation of our army; and much he was indebted to the indulgence of the house that he was allowed to make his intended motion before the committee of fupplies fat; because as it appeared to him that the compact between the king and the people had been violated in refpect to our army, he fhould, if the subject was agitated in the committee, have no refort bur a propofa! to refufe the fupplies which would be asked. He faid it was particularly incumbent on him to watch the motions of adminiftration in respect to our troops, as he was the Ссссс 2

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perfon who moved for an augmentation of them, and that should he neglect to take notice of any evil which might be the refult of that meafure, the confequences would be folely attributed to him as the first caufe. He did not wifh to quarrel with administration, and impede the neceffary business of the state; that although there was reafon for the leverity of the commons, yet he would be mild in his refolution on this breach of faith, and rather hope to reclaim by gentle methods, than to force by overbearing facts, the fervants of the crown into a fenfe of their duty; and therefore he would propole three motions to the house, which, as they stated real matters of fact, he did expect would not be amended with gentlemen's adding "it is now neceffary to declare," or poft

poning to the first of August," or any other minifterial tricks, but that they should have a fair and impartial hearing; and that if the minifter could deny their propriety, he would do it in a fatisfactory and plain manner. He then read the refolutions as follow:

66

Refolved, that in order to enable his majefty to carry into execution his majefty's gracious intention to keep twelve thousand effective men in this kingdom, for the defence thereof, at all times but in cafes of rebellion or invafion in England, this houfe did confent to defray the expence of an augmentation of 3334 men.

"Resolved, that it appears by the returns before the houfe, that there were only 10836, effective mea in this kingdom on the 1 day of October, 1775.".

"That an humble addrefs be presented to his excellency the lord lieutenant, defiring that he would lay thefe refolutions before his ma jefty,"

Sir John Blaquiere replied, if there had been any breach of the compac, he would have willingly joined the right hon. gentleman; But there had been none; for on the 1ft of Jaft October there were more men in the kingdom than could have been expected. But genelemmen fell into this error from not rightly under ftanding the meaning of the word effective men, which he would then explain.-In the number or what are called effective are always includ. ed contingent men, which are nominal men allowed by law to be muttered as actual men, that their pay is allowed to the officers for certain contingencies; and thefe were distinguished from other nominal men, called warrant men, which are not included in the number of effective, but called non-effective men. The contingent men are allowed three to each company of foot, two to each troop of dragocns; and one to each troop of horte; the warrant men are, four to each company. That above 11000 men of the Irish establishment are now here, which is more than ever has been fince the augmentation: and including marines, and Two regiments on Dublin duty, paid by Great Britain, there are actually at this prefent time in Ireland 12055 effective men.-Gentlemen have commonly understood by effective men, actual fighting men, fuch as are filed in the military phrafe, men fighting in their fhoes,

but no regiment ever could be conftantly kept compleat-the common cafualties of nature forbid it; and after all there are but 374 men lefs in the kingdom than the compact allows, fuppofing no allowance made for deaths, detertions, or difcharges, though 300 men have been discharged lately for Kilmainham holpital. He added, gentlemen did not feem wil ling to give credit for the recruits railed in this kingdom; 598 had been raised in the month of September; and by the fame proportion, from the 1ft of October laft to the prefent day, the recruits amount to 897, which more than counte balances the two regiments fent abroad unce October 1.

He then in the most earnest terms conjured Mr. Conolly to withdraw his motions.-He faid, Oh! Sir, ftain not the temper of your proceedings with fuch unworthy fufpicions. Let it not be recorded upon your journals, that, at a time when the empire was rent almost to its very foundation by a rebellion, unnatural, bafe, and ungrateful, at which this house had fo recently expreffed its juft abhorrence and indignation-let it not be faid that at a moment fo critical as this, the house of commons of Ireland was feeking to exprefs inftead of its loyalty, its jealoufies to the king-He begged pardon for entering fo particularly into the detail as he had done, but he wished to fhew gentlemen that there was nothing fo mystically ob feure in the army eftablishment as had been imagined. That it was one of the few advan tages which he derived from his profeffion, which he knew was not made to form gentlemen for that houfe:-That profeflion which he should ever honour, and which he thought of with regret; it had however taught him the language of truth, and had endowed him with a spirit of mind not to be afraid to declare it any where; it was the only language he affected to fpeak to the houfe-he had first heard it in his cradle, and he would carry it to the grave.

Mr. Conolly replied to Sir John's explanation, and faid he was happy to find things were not so very bad as he apprehended; but that it was ftill evident part of the 12,000 men had teen taken away, and that if we allowed the fmalleft deviation from truth in the royal word, we opened a road to its being fill more and more falfified. Hefaid, the word effective had another very different meaning, befides that to which the right hon. gentleman had applied it; for that it could be proved effective men had been effective in picking the money out of our pockets which was a fact that could not be denied by the financier. He added, that he avoided as much as poffible the subject of Ame rica; but that fince he was urged to it, he could not, nor ever would, agree to call their oppofition a rebellion. He still infifted, that the 12,000 effective men were not here; that of courfe the royal word was broke; and that therefore the motions were proper.

Mr. Gardiner faid he had been convinced by the right hon. gentleman of the two points; and if two other questions could be fatisfacto rily refolved, he fhould be fully fatisfied. He

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