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do not.Q. Do you know of any applica-money market during those montbs, and dim-made to government for assistance, in or from your recollection of the extensive conder to enable the house of Boyd and Ben cerns of die house of Boyd and Benfield, do field to complete any instalinent upon that you think that lad any such attempt been Joan? : A. I do not. Q. Were you in the mace to discount wavy bills, or bills accepted diabit of communicating with Mr. Boyd rela by the East India Company, in the hands of tive to the engagements of ihe bouse? A. the house of Boyd and Benfield, that such Certainly, relative to all the !) uirs of this discount could have been obtained ?, A., I konse in general; but I cannou know whe I presunie that such discount could liare been ther Mr. Boyd.communicated to me every oltained ly the house of Boys and Beijeld thing that passed between hial and other ut that perind, with us much facility as by persons.-Q. Do you know of any sale of any other house of biesiness in the City of serip, or any endeavour to sell scrip, in the Linun; but ou recollection, I believe that months of August, September, and! October, it was early in ile year 1790 that the Bank 1790, for the purpose of furnishing money of England cine to a resolution considerably to complete any instalnrent that might tail to narrow their discounts, potwithstanding due upon the loan of December, 1790, witle any ideas they miglit have entertained of the in that periodi ? 4. I cannot speak with rer sofility of the paper offered then.-R: l.iinty as to the particular period irom me Were there, in the firm of the hou:e of mory, but the house being in the habit of Boyd and Benfield, any other partvers at holding considerable sums of scrip, it is ex that time besides Mr. Bayd, Mr. Benfield, tremely probable that they may have sold a : and yourself? d. No others.--. Did part of that scrip for tlie purpose of com you never hear that Mr. M.Dowall was a pleting the payments on the remainder.
partner in the house ? A. Undoubtedly not; Q. Do you recollect any, sale of navy bills, this is the first time I have heard such an idei or bills accepted by the East India Company | mentioned.- Q. Did you ever see thje from their presidencies abroad, cr any at bond which was signed by the ditierent tempt to make such sale, in the months of partners in the house of Boyd and Benfield, August, September, and Ociwber, 1790, for giving security to government for the comthe purpose of completing any instalment pletion of the contract.entered into by Mr. upon the loan of Decembrir, 1795, which Boyd, for the remittance of 50,000!. to the might become due within that periad? A. East Indies on account of government, to I do not recollect any such salzs for that pur which bond Mr. M Dowall's uaine, and the pose, but it is impossible for me to state names of two other gentlemen, appear 20from memory the various and large transac nexed to that bond, as pariners in the house tions of that house ; they will all be seen, I of Boyd and Rentield?, A. I do not recolhuve no doubt, in the books and papers of lect having signed myself any such bond the house. - 2. In whose hands are those jointly with Mr. M'Dowall. Q. Who books and papers? A. They are in the cus kept the cash-bock or Bayd and Bentield, or tody of the person or persons appointed by the account of cash, receipts, and payments the Crown, under a writ of Extent against A. Mr. Henry Liborton, a clerk in the the House : I believe they are at prescit in house-Q. Under: whose direction was the strong room of the late house of Strange the cash account kept? A. Mr. Boyu's; Mr. and Company, Bankers in New Bond-street, Liboiton daily balanced the cash, and made who were appointed receivers by the Crown, his reports to Nir. Boyd. R. Could inoitha the consent and concurrence, I believe, ney be advanced to the house, or raised from of the assignees.-.-Q. Do you recollect, in sources with which you were not acquaintpoint of fact, any navy-biils, or any biils ac ed? A. It might possibly, and having no cepted by the East India Company, having particular charge of the cash-book, I did no leen sold by the house of Boyd and Benjield frequently attend to that depariment of the Kout the period aliidert io, in Autumn house. ---R. Was ihe making provision for 1790? A. I have no particular recollection. the paynient of the instalinents on any parti,
Q. Do you recollect any instance, du cular loan to goiernment more particularly ring the montis of Augusi, September, and under Mr. Borii's direction, or that of you? October, 1790, of ur navy bilis, or bills ac A. I have already stated, that the cash atairs cepted by the East India Company, having of the house were more particulariy under been either discountul, or atteinpieil to be the direction of Mr. Boyd.- Q. Was Mr. discounted, without success, by the house of Waller Boyd the younger in the partiership
1 Boyd and Bentield ? A. I have no recollec of Boyd and Benfield ? A. He was not; I tion whatever of any such circumstance. have heard him say, that Mr. Bentieil dint R. From you' recollection of the site oí the proposed to liim to become a partner, but
that he had declined it. He was, I believe, | he knew, it was impossible for me to say. an acting partner in Mr. Boyd's house at P. Did he tell you at any time to the best of Paris, before the revolution. TQ. Have your recollection, during the months of Auyou any knowledge of any agreement made gust, September, or October, 1790, that diby Mr. Benfield, for any purchase of any less assistance could be obtained from some estate in or about Shaftesbury, in July, quarter for the payment of, instalmente due 1796?' A. I have no knowledge whatever to goverment, a failure was to be appreof Mr. Benfield's private or separate transac
hended ? A. I recollect that about the tions; during the whole course of our part month of October, 1790, the house, seusnership, I seldom had any communication rally speaking, was in difficulties, very large with Mr. Benfield upon any subject of busi- sums being due to it by various corresperiness whatever. -Q. Do you happen to dents; but I do not recollect any particular know who was Mr. Benfield's solicitor at difficulty with respect to any instalments de that time? 4. Mr. Bentield has employed to government. -2. Could such pressing at various tinies so many different solicitors, ditficulty, as before stated; have arisen with that I do not know with certainty who was out your knowledge. . I do not conceive his solicitor for Shaftesbury; but I believe it POSSIBLE any particular difficulty coed Mr. Lloyd, in Bedford-row.
you have existed with regard to the instalmente know whether Mr. Boyd was chosen to serve a laan, because it was at all times in the in Parliament at the general election in the power of the house to have sold the scrip summer 1796? A. He was. R. For upon which such instalment might have been what place A. For Shaftesbary. Q. due; it might indeed, in particular circumYoriliare stated, that you had not the parti- stances, not be, convenient to do so, on 2cular care of the cash in the house of Boyd, count of the great loss that would be sustainnor of course of the cash-book; did you ed. Q. Do you recollect a situation of bowever, at stated times, or frequently, 're the house in which their public securities view the cash-book, and take notice of the would not fetch any price; and, en * state of the cash? A. I have frequently count of such circumstance, a fuilure was to Jooked into the cash-book, and taken patice be apprehended during the months mentionof the state of the cash. but not at any stated ed?" A. I do not recollect any period, a periods. Were all cash transactions of any time whatever, when public securities every description, regarding the firm, enter could not le solel ut a greater or less discount, ed in that book?' A. I believe they were. Q. Have you any recollection of the
Q. Were all loans to and from the house sale, or offer to sell, of any public securities or entered there? A. I believe they were..- scrip by that house, during the same period!
Q. Should you have deemed it a deviation 4, I have no doubt that about that period, from the course of business, if any loan had sales of public securities must have been fiade been made for the benefit of the house, and by the house ; but with respect to the partie pot regularly entered there? 4. I should cular sums, or securities sold, I can only recertainly have deemed it a deviatiou from fer to the books of the house, ir being inr the regular and established practice of all possible for me to state such transactions inerchauts. -Q. Do you recollect, during from memory.- Q. Who had the custody the months of August, September, or Octo of the securities, bills, and other marketable ber, 1796, any entry of a loan for 40,000 1. papers, belonging to the house: 1. They from government from Lord Melville, then were kept in a drawer, of which Mr; Brd Mr. Dumas, from Mr. Long, or anonymous ? had a key, and I also had one. Could A. I do núi recollect any such entry, or any any quantity of such paper have been with such loan, being received at the house; but drawn from such drawer, for aby length of I have no doubt that if a sum of 40,000 1. time, without your kpowledge was received by the house, it must appear in tion? A. These securities were daily giver the books of the house. 2. Did Mr. out, either by Mr. Boyd or by myself, 19 Boyd communicate with you fully and freely either of us happened to be present ukea on the concerns of the house, stating, at all they were wanted, for the purposes either of times, such wifficulties as may reason...bly be sale, discount, or to receive the payment cu supposed must occur at times in the manage- such as had become due. Was there ment of all extensive concerns ? A. Mr. not an account kept of the contents of the Boyd was daily in the habit of communica, drawer? 1. There was - rio particular acting with me, or rather, I was in the habit count kept of the contents of the drawer
, of communicating with him concerning the other tian that all reinittances and securities arifairs of the house, but whether Mr. Boyd were usually entered in the bill books, and toimunicated fully and freely csery thing when deli;ered to the cashier bus the poteft
poses before stated, it was his duty to mark' | discomted by the house, they will
appear them off in those books ;-but-bills were fre toʻhave been marked off in the bill book. quently taken out for the purpose of being "SEO Do you think that bills accepted by - discounted when discount could not be re- the East India company, some of which had gularly obtained, of when only temporary twetre and tifteen months toʻtui, and nuvy doang could be had 'on the security of the bills, could have been discounted in the -bills, in wlrich ease it is possible no such entry auttimni of 1796 ?. À. I do not believe they may have been made; the bills then ought could have been discounted of sucht long to have been returned to the drawer..Q. dates"; but if it were legal to sell such bills, Do you recollect the absence of any East I have no doubt but it might have been India Company bills, or navy bills, from the practicable to sell them.
Q: Did Mr. drawer, to the amount of 40,0001., or there Boyd ever mention to you, that in the abouts, without your knowing for what pur autumn of 1796, he had conversed with tard pose they had been used? Ă. I do not re Melville, or the chancellor of the erchequer, collect any such circumstance, but I have no respecting any assistance to be furnished to doubt that if any such transactions took hiin by government, in lieu of securities place, they would appear in the books of the which he was to furnish for that purpose? house. -Q. Did Mr. Boyd ever inform | A. I do not recollect that he did. -Q. you he had pledged securities to such an Had you yourself any conversation of the mount, for assistance to make good an in same nature with either of the above-named stalment upon loan? 1. I do not recollect person's ? A. I had pot the lionour of being that he did. - Q. Have you any reason to at all known either to Mr. Pitt or lord believe such pledge was ever made by the Melville; I do not recollect ever having house for such purpose ? A. I have not. been in Mr. Pitt's presence on any occasion Q. In the event of any bills being taken from whaterer, or ever been in lord' Melville's the drawer, and pledged to any party who presence since the house of Boyd, Benfield, lent money upon them, such party having and company, i were in existence. received the payment of these bills when You have stated, that you did not sign the due, and discharged the debt due to himself contract of partnership with Mr. Boyd and from their produce, how would the entry Benfield; did you not consider, that the not respecting such transaction have been made having so done, would exempt you froin any in the books of Bayd and company? A. of the legal consequences of their failure? I presume that the person'would have been A. I believe it would have exempted me, made debtor to cas' to the account to which had the establishment been in any foreign the bills or securities referred or belonged. country', for init:nce, in Holland or in
A. Would not such bills have been France, wlière such limited parmerships marked off in the bill-book as liquidated or are not uncomino:1 ; but I have been advised paid ? A. They wou?, if the cashier did or informed, that according to the laws of liis duty, although I had one key of the this country, any person who is lield out to drawer which contained those bills, Mr. the public as a partrcs, of thô secretely Boyd had complete and entire confidence in participates in the profit, is liable to the Mr. Libotton, and I delivered any securities creditors of the house, although, as between to him that the drawer contained without ourselies, I considered I was not liable to hesitation, and without taking any note what any loss; I thought so at the time, but I ever of the bills so given out. The confidence considered the forthine of Mr. Benfield and of Mr. Benfield in Nir. Libotton was, if possi of Mr. Boyel (as represented to ine by Mr. ble, still more entire; le proposed about the Boyd) to be such is would place me above Larter end of the year 1996, or the beginning all risk.-Q. Did you consider yourself of the year 1797, tint Mr: Libottun should as partner at all, not having signed the conbeconie. 'a partuer in the house, to which I tract of partnership? 11. I considered my: objected, and of course it did not take place. self liable as a partner to the public, but not
Q. Were bills and securities to the bound by any particular stipulation which annount of 41,6001. so market off on or might have been entered into by Mr. Boyd about the month of October 1790 ; or was and Mr. Benbeld, in their contract together. an etitry made of the nature you have de -Q. Wat do you mean by stating, that Noribed in a former answer ? A: I have you acted chiefly under the direction of alreinity stated; that I have no particular re Boyd ? A. I mean, that my concern in collection of the bills which appear to be the house being comparatively very small, it athutest toint that question; but I have no would not haie been becoming in me to doubt, that if such bills we in possession assume much cotisequence from it. pri te LANK, tot Leert either sold or Did you f.ow Mr. Boyd's directions in
nitude, having large payments and remit ances to make on account of the entpetul, in addition to all the other concerns of the establishment.--In answer to some of the questions, I have stated, that I was in the Boyd concerning the attairs of the house, but that I could not be certain whether upon all occasions, his communications to me kete
unreserved. In saying so, I was very for of 10,000l. on the following day. I wish from meaning to insinuate any thing to the
disadvantage of Mr. Boyd, for whose check ter and abilities I always did, and still do, entertain the highest opinion; I enly me to say., that our situations were very ditteracting laborious partner in the executire business of the house, and particularly in the
to follow his instsuctions, and to inform him consisted only of 19,000,000l. and did not contrary, was frequently placed in situations
of every thing that occurred; he,.,on-the which might have rendered a full and tree communication with me on every point sery in the month of June, 1790, the Baron de improper. I recollect particularly, that early Muller arrived from Vienoa on 2 Specis/
mission from the direction of his Liriperid
cases respecting the concerns of the house? difficulty was experienced in napney trang A. Generally speaking I certainly did not, actions during the year 1795, but it isa lowever, without expressing my own opi- faet generally known, that great ineens nion.Q. Did you believe now that Mr. veniences were sustained from what is usually Boyd communicated to you all the money termed, a scarcity of money early in the transactions of the honse A, I have no spring cf 1790 ; and from the time that the reason to think that be with-beld from me Bank of England came to the resolution any knowledge of the money transactions in of narrowing their discounts, that incomgeneral.-Q. Then you cannot take upon venience continued to increase until the yourself to say, that he did communicate to latter end of February 1797, when an order you all the money transactions of the house ? of council was made for suspending the isse 4. I cannot positively say so, and certainly of cash by the bank; in consequence of not in all the detail. -Q. You have stated, this general depreciation of credit, the Jean that Mr. Boyd had entire contidence in Mr. of April 1790 was, in less than six weeks, Libotton, the cashier ; had you the same three and an half per cent discount; by degree of confidence in Mr. Libotton? A, the end of July, at seren and three quarters I had no reason to doubt his honesty, nor per cent. discount; and at the end of Sep have I now, although my opinion in other tember, 13 per cent. discount ; the other respects was not altogether so partial as that funds fell in proportion ; it was neverthelezi of Mr. Boyd and Mr. Bentield appeared to ału'ays possible to sell funded property
scrip, c. at a greater or less discount 15th May.Q. Is that book in your hand but the best mercantile securities
, bilis of the cash-book of August 1798, of Boyd exchange of undoubted credit and solidity, and Benfield ?, A. Yes. Can you point and even the acceptances of governmen, out in the books before you, the entry and the East-India company, when at larg of the som advanced to Mr. Boyd of dates, became in a great degree unavailable 40,0001. in the year 1790, by lord Mel
that is to say, they could not be discoured ville, or anonymous, which you may con AT LEGAL INTEREST.
That these gerir in clude to have been such advance upon the distresses bore with serere pressure on in security of East-India company bills and house of Boyd, Benfield, and compani; other public securities Company appears byn
never meant to deny. It was the more salt an entry in the cash book of 9th Septem- | by them at that time, as ber 1796, that bills to the amount of actions were then of considerable with 11,8281. 11s. Od. on the East-India company; to the amount of 5,0411. ls. 8d, on the Treasury ; a further sum of 11,0001. on the Treasury ; and 12,834). Ss. 2d. on the Victualling Office, making together the sum of 40,7041, is. 7d. were delivered to Mr. constant habit of communicating with Me Boyd le discount, or raise money upon them; that Mr. Boyd accordingly paid to the house on account thereof 30,0001. on the gth day of September aforesail, and a further suin to state in explanation of my evidence on a former day, that in the first part of my examination, my mind bore upon an earlier period than I now perceive the question applies to. I was asked concerning the loan
ent in many respects, mine wascontracted for in December 1795: my answer of 4,600,000). was included ; the loan contracted for in November or December 1795,
include any loan to the emperor. About the 15th of April following, a further loan of seven millions and a half was raised for the service of the yent 1706 ;.. this first erroneous impression ran through other parts of my evidence. I do not recollect any
Majesty's finances, and that Mr. Boyd was you state generally, what proportion of the .confidentially emploved by him and Count: loãn of 18,000,000 1. contracted for. Straremberg in negotiating some plan of fur in December, 1795,' was retained by the ther pecunhry supplies to the Emperor with bontse of Beye and Compmy, bn' their own bis Majesty's cabinet ministers. In conse behalf, or others for whom they acted as: querice of those negotiations, the house of agents ?' A. I cannot ; 'the first payment on Boyd, Benfield, and Company, were instruct that loan took place, I believe, in December, ed to facilitate the means of further supplies 1795 ; the ledger now before me conniences to the Emperor, and sent a person to Ham in Jarmary, 1796); but it appears that a seburgh about the hitter end of July, 1790, for cond payment was made upon that lom that express purp.ose, with unlimited credit on the 2n of January, amonnting to opon the house. Mr. Boyd'only communi- 12,559. 18. 0.
12,559. 18. 0.-Q. Did the proportion cated to nie, on this and other similar occa of the louns of December, 1795, and April, rions, as much as it was nicessary I should 1790, retained by the house of Boyd and kaow, for the purpose of carrying the reso Company, form a inaterial proportion of the lutions into exitution. Q. Do you find general transactions of the house at the peany entry of payment on instalments on the riod in question? 1. It formed a large proboxa, corresponding to the entry of the re portion, but there were at that time affairs of ceipt above stated of 40,000).? A. I do not much more considerable magnitude than find any entry "eractty correspondent to that merely their amount in the share in the particular sum; but many entries of large loan; it appears that in the year 1796, thie sums, on account of the direction of the fi house paid, or remitted to the direction of hances at Vienna, "particularly one sum on his Imperial and Royal Majesty's finances at the 31st of October, 1790, of + 1961,340.13. 1. Vienna, a sum amounting to 14,009,506. 9.
-Q. In the form of eritries of bills, and -Q. What was the highest discount on other securities turned into money, on ac the loan of seven millions and an half, at any count of the honse of Boyd and Company, period in the year 1790? A. I cannot state is any notice taken on the face of the cash
froin memory any higher discount than that book, of the names of the parties by whom of thirteen per cent, actually incurred by the such bills or securities had been discounted ? house, by a trusaction stated in their books, A. Not generally.--Q. In the case of bills but it may have been at a higher discount. issued to Mr. Boyd personally to be so con -Q. Do yon recollect how many instalverted, would such entry cocur? A. Mr. ments of the low of Decernber, 1705,' were Boyd's account would be made debtor for due in September, 1790? 1. I have no any securities delivered to him by the house, means of knowing it. and would be inade creditor for the sums of 17th May.-- [Delivers in a copy of the money received front him on account of entry of gik and icth September, 1700; such securities; but the name of the person from the books of the house of Boyd and or persons from whom he had receired the Bentielt', which was read.) ----Q. Was money would not be mentioned.-Q. there any instalınent payable on the loan or Would Mr. Boyd, on receipt of the advances seven milions and an half in the nyonth of of 40,000). from Mr. Long, upon a deposit September; 1796, and on what day. 4. I of bills, make any entry of Mr. Long's nane helieve that an instalment ct 15 per cent. in the cash-book of the house? 1. Most became due on the lom of scren niillions probably not, such entry Leing unnecessary and an balf, either on the oth or the 11th for the information of the house: -Q. Can day of September, and that a further instalyou state generally what proportion of the ment of 15 per cent. on the preceding loan. Joan of seven millions and in half, contract of 18,000,000 l. became due on the 230 ed for in April, 1706, was held by the house day of the same month. -Q. Do you know of Boyd and Company, either on their own which instalnieat on the loan of seven miiaccount, or that of others for whom they lions and an half it was that beinme due op acted as agents?
A. I cannot from memory the 9tli or 11th of September? A. I do not state, but I find in the ledger, that a örst recollect which it was, my information upon payınent was made to the Bank by the house the subject being derived merely from a ot Boyd, Bentield, and Company, on the pamphlet which I saw yesterday evening.--20th of April, 1790, of 239,900 1. upon the Q. Do not you know; that on the bran of sesum of 2,390,0001. of that loun.- Q ven millious and au buf, with regard to Does the sun in question include the pay, sonie of the insialments, the Bank had enments on accotext of parties for whom the gaged to make the payments? . do not house acted as asunts, as well as on behalf of recollect whether the Bank haci upon that thie bolise itself: A. It does.--.-Q. Can particular occasiorr or not. » I'wishi to zdr's