paying the money to him, without pretending to consider whether he was a private agent or not.-Q. Had you any public money transactions with Mr. Tweedy off destroyed? A. At the time I was out of of- -Q. A. -Q. What authority did Mr. Tweedy produce to you for the payment of such money? 4. The demand for such money had previously been made by Lord Melville to myself.-Q. Verbally, or in writing? 4. Verbally.- -Q. Did you keep any account of the sums paid to Mr. Tweedy, in consequence of such verbal demands of Lord Melville? A. I entered them in the accounts which I kept with his-lordship.-Q. Are they in existence? A. I have already mentioned, that I had not thought it necessary to preserve any accounts between Lord Melville and myself, a mutual release having passed between us.- Q: Do you know the amount of any such sums which you may have paid to Mr. Tweedy? 4. My recollection does not serve me to specify any such sums.- Q. Do you recollect any thing about the date of such payments? 4. I do not. -Q. Do you recollect what sort of sums they may have been? A. Once or twice they may have amounted to between three or four thous 1 d pounds, but not larger. -Q. In making such payments to Mr. Tweedy, did you consider him as a public officer, or a private agent of Lord Melville? birodno Melville's directions in 4. I had.-Q. Where were those public official transactions recorded! 4. In the Navy Pay Office.Q. Are the payments to Mr. Tweedy, by Lord Melville's verbal order, recorded there also? 4. They are not in any instance.-Q. Do you know into whose hands the 40,0001, paid by Mr. Wilson during your absence in the year 1796, for purposes not naval, was placed? 4. I only know from the information which Mr. Wilson has given me upon that subject.Q. What was that information? A. That he had paid the money to Lord Melville.Q. By whom, and at what time was that money returned? A. I have already stated in general terms, that I believe it to be returned by Mr. Long; but I can only speak with my own knowledge in respect to the last payment, which, as far as I can recollect, amounted to 6,0001., and which was returned to me by Mr. Long some time in January, 1798.-Q. At what period or periods was the 34,0001. returned, and to whom? 4. I have no further knowledge of the circumstance, as I was much in Scotland in the latter end of 1796 and in the year 1797, and the repayments were made, to the best of my knowledge, during my absence; but I am very certain that the 6,0001., which I received in January, 1798, completed the full repayment of the 40,0001.-Q. Were any entries made in the office-books of such repayments? A. None that I know ofQ. How then did you come to the conviction of the payment of 6,0001. in January, 1798, making the balance of the 40,000l. paid out as before stated in the year 1796? 4. From a knowledge which I have at all times had of the state of my balances, by which I must have seen when any deficiency that may have existed was paid up.-Q. How came you then not to see the dates of the repayments of such 34,000l.? 4. I make no doubt that I may have seen the dates, but I have no recollection of them whatever? -Q. Where were they recorded? 4. In my own private books.-Q. Where are those books? 4. They are the books before-mentioned, which I did not think necessary to preserve.-Q. Were the sums paid to Mr. Tweedy by Lord Melville's verbal order ever returned to you, or in any way repaid to the account of the public in the Navy Pay Office, or to any other fund? A. They have unquestionably been all repaid to me, and I have accomitet for the whole of the money that has been put BA REEP MOND under my charge for naval services.- -Q. Did Lord Melville pay interest to you for such sums during the time they were in his possession? A. Lord Melville has paid me interest for sums of money, but not upon those which I have stated to have been paid to Mr. Tweedy.- Q. Who are Mr. Tweedy's executors? A. He left two sons, but whether they are his executors or not I do not know.-Q. Was any interest paid on the 40,0001. advanced during your absence by Mr. Wilson? A. None that I know of- Q. Were the sums advanced to Mr. Tweedy advanced out of the mixed fund at Messrs. Coutts', or were they advanced out of a fund which consisted exclusively of public money? A. I do not recollect any other advances than those made out of the mixed fund at Messrs. Coutts'.- -Q. What reason had you for considering that the 40,0001. was advanced out of public money? A. It was from a general impression which I received from the communications made to me upon this subject, and I do not know whether this 40,0001, was advanced from 'Messrs. Coutts' or not.-Q. What may have been the total amount of money, described to be advanced as different times to Mr. Tweedy by order of Lord Melville, as nearly as you can recollect? A. The total amount of monies of this description, to the best of my recollection, have never, in the whole, exceeded 30,0001. until the sum of 40,0001. was added to it; but I cannot state with certainty that the whole of the sums constituting that 30,0001. was advanced to Mr. Tweedy.- -Q. To whom was any part of the 30,0001. advanced, which was not paid to Mr. Tweedy? A. I have already stated, that I do not recollect.- —Q. Withiin what period of time did these issues take place? A. I mean to comprehend the whole time during which I acted as Paymaster under Lord Melville, for 14 or 15 years.Why did you destroy papers in which other persons' accounts were kept, as well as Lord Melville's? A. Because the whole of my accounts were closed upon my leaving London, excepting some private family concerns, and very small accounts between my friends and myself, which I carried forward into new books. I desire to state to my former answer, that 10,0001. of the 30,0001, had accrued before I was appointed to my office.Q. By whom was the 10,0001. advanced? A. I do not know.-Q. How did you know the existence of such a debt? 4. By Lord Melville's acknowledgment to me.Q. To whom did he acknowledge himself debtor? A. To the office. -Q. Of how long standing had that debt-been-4, I have -Q. | -Q. no knowledge of the circumstance.To whom was that 10,0001. repaid? A. It must have been repaid to me.-Q. In what capacity did you receive that sim that you had never advanced? 4. In capacity of pay master.. Did you then conceive it to be a debt due to the public? A. I did. -Q. Was any interest paid upon it? 4. None.- -Q. Had not Lord Melville made such acknowledgment, could you have traced such debt due from him to the public, in any of the office-books? 4. I could certainly have told that the balance of the account put under my charge was so much deficient.Q. Was Lord Melville debited for such sum in any of the books? A. He was not.Q. What was the nature of the acknowledgment of Lord Melville? A. Merely verbal.—Q. Did you conceive Mr. Tweedy acting as a private agent for Lord Melville, or ever acting for him in that capacity? A. I consider him, in these instances, to have been acting for his lordship in a private capacity.-Q. Explain private? A. Merely as a person sent to me by his lordship to receive the money which I had previously been directed to pay to him.-Q. Were those directions from Lord Melville to procure money generally, or to procure him public money? A. To procure money generally. Q. Did you consider Mr. Tweedy merely as a messenger to carry the money to Lord Melville, or concerned in the application of the money? A. Merely as a messenger. 4th May -Q. Of the sums you have advanced from time to time to Lord Melville, not exceeding the 20,0001., as men→ tioned yesterday, do you know whether any part of it was applied to any public purpose? 4. I do not, but I beg to be, understood, that this sum which I mentioned yesterday, is not connected with the sums which I have mentioned before the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry to have been occasionally in advance to Lord Melville, and for which I ac counted his lordship my private debtor.-Q. In the Tenth Report it is mentioned, that a certain sum was left in Mr. Trotter's hands, as the balance of the first part of the second treasurership, where is that sum now, amounting to 25,484. 15. 3.? 4. The greater part of it is still my possession, but a small part has been paid away at one payment.- Q. What was the amount of the small payment? A. I issued two hundred pounds to the cashier to make paymentof a larger demand, assisted by money in the cashier's hands.- -Q. When was that payment made? A. It was made in December, 15.4, and I have taken measures within these two days to pay up the whole balance. Q. What are the measures you have taken? 4. I have inquired into the amount of balances remaining unassigned in that treasurership, with a view to procure assignments being made so as to reduce the balance. Tweedy, do not exceed in the whole, and during the whole time of your acting as par master to Lord Melville, the sum of 20,0001 4. Upon a further consideration of the sums which I stated yesterday, I should wish to add to that stun two or three thousand pounds.-Q. When did your private agency begin with Lord Melville?. I do not c collect; I had no regular appointment as pr vate agent.- Q. Were any acts of private agency performed by you for Lord Melvir, previous to your appointment as Paymaster of the Navy A. Not any -Q. When did the private agency cease? A. It has not ceased.-Q. Have you performed any act of private agency since the execution of the releases in 1803? A. I have.-—Q. What do you mean by members of Lord Melville's family? A. I mean his domestic servants. Q. To whom do you propose to pay the balance, when it is so reduced. The account being nearly closed, I expect directions from the Auditor's Office to pay the balance into the Exchequer.-Q. What obstacles have there been in the way to an earlier settlement of this account? A. From the peculiarly intricate manner in which the account of the ex-treasurers are required to be closed, but which intricacy arises from the minute accuracy which is observed.-Q. There is a certain sam mentioned in the 135th page of the Tenth Report of the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry, of the sum of £5,563, 6. 2. which was paid into Lord [The witness wishes to amend his anMelville's own hands in May or June, 1800, swer of yesterday, in page 20, 3d May-xwhich was the balance of Lord Melville's I have already amended my evidence of yes first treasurership, ending in 1783, do you terday, so far as to say, that I had made adknow where that sum now is? A. I do not, vances for Lord Melville to others besides any further than I have heard Lord Melville, Mr. Tweedy; and I have now further to within these three weeks or a month, say, amend my answer of yesterday, by saying, that he meant to pay it immediately into the that some of those advances made to others Exchequer.-Q. From the state of the ac- than Mr. Tweedy, but constituting the sura counts of Lord Melville's first treasurership, as I said yesterday of 20,000 1., and to which could that balance have been earlier paid to-day I have added two or three thousand to the Exchequer? A. I apprehend not pounds, were advanced from funds exclusive until within these three or four months, un- ly of public money; and I wish in this to til which time that account of his lordship refer to my evidence given before the Comhad not been delivered to the auditors.-Q.missioners of Naval Enquiry, in page 220, Upon what does that depend, the delivery to the auditor? A. The final arrangement of the account, in the minute manner in which I have endeavoured to describe, in which the whole payments made in the treasurership are brought to agree in the account of the sums as certified to the several boards, with the accounts made up in a different form, and delivered to the auditors.-Q. Whether any of the payments which you had made to Q. Upon what authority then did you Mr. Tweedy, by Lord Melville's direction, make such advances? 4. I acted in these hid any relation to those circur stances which instances from my own judgment, in the Lord Melville had confidently communicated management of his lordship's concerns.to you, and which you did not deem your- Q. You had at times verbal instructions from self at liberty to relate, as mentioned in page Lord Melville? A. Yes, I had.-Q. Or 203 in the Tenth Report? A. I had no such the sums advanced to Mr. Tweedy and allusion.[The witness desires to amend others, for the use of Lord Melville, stated his evidence of yesterday, as to sums ad- by you yesterday to amount to the sum of vinced to other persons besides Mr. Tweedy, 20,000l. to which you have added a further se page 19, 3d May-x-In looking at my sum of 2 or 3,000l. to day, can you now, bunker's book, I find that I have occasionally upon recollection, state how much was pub made payments into the houses of Messrs. lic and how much private money? 4. I Drummond and Messrs. Coutts, and to my have no means to enable me to state that cirLord Melville's secretary, Mr. Alves, and cunstance with accuracy.-Q. Please to other members of his lordship's family.]-state it generally? 4. As nearly 35 I can Q. Do you mean to say that all these payments, added to the payments made to Afr. as an explanation to an answer that I then gave on that subject, and which, as I did not recollect at that time the circumstances now mentioned, was then perfectly correct; and I must further amend iny evidence of yester day by now saying, that I do not think Lord Melville gave me verbal, or any instruction, in some instances wherein I had advanced sums of money for his lordship to Mr.Tweedy.] state it, about one-half public and one-half private.-Q. Do you mean to say anç-hair exclusively public? A. I do.- -Q. Do you mean the other half exclusively private? 4. I mean the other half to have been principally advanced from my account at the house of Messrs. Coutts and Company-Q. Of the advances from 10 to 20,000l. mentioned in the Tenth Report to have been made by you to Lord Melville at different times, have you now any means of judging what part was public and what private money? A. I believe the whole to have been advanced from my accounts at the house of Messrs. Coutts and Company. -Q. Was the interest always paid by Lord Melville to you on those advances? A. It was not.- -Q. Was it ever paid? 4. No; his lordship paid me no interest for those advances.-Q. What | was it that induced you to exercise your judgment in making payments to Mr. Tweedy, without any direction from Lord Melviile so to do; was it from any knowledge of the manner in which the monies so paid to Mr. Tweedy was to be applied on account of Lord Melville? A. I aliude to private transactions in the management of Lord Melville's private business, in which I had general directions, although no specific directions on every occasion. Q. Are the committee to understand that some of the payments made to Mr. Tweedy, on Lord Melville's account, were made to Mr. Tweedy as to a person who had the management of Lord Melville's private affairs? A. Mr. Tweedy had not the management of Lord Melville's private affairs.-Q. Explain to the Committee what circumstance could induce you to pay to Mr. Tweedy money on account of Lord Melville's private affairs, without Lord Melville's direction, and without considering Mr. Tweedy as being any private agent of Lord Melville's? have already said that I had general directions from Lord Melville in the management of his private affairs, though not specific ones in every instance; and when any sum of money came into my hands upon his lordships account, I have taken it upon me to apply that money without directions from his lordship. Q. What were those general directions? A. It was a general permission to act for Lord Melville as I thought proper, in his private affairs. 4. I 6th MayQ. Can you recollect any thing about the repayment of the specific sum of 10,000l. which, at your commencing paymaster, Lord Melville acknowledged to you that he owed to the public? 4. I do not.-Q. What sums did you annually receive, as my Lord Melville's private agent, from other sources, saving those of his salary as Treasurer of the Navy ?--I do not recollect any regular annual payments made to me on his lordship's account, although I have received considerable sums, and in many instances.- -Q. Can you form any opinion of the average? A. I cannot. Q. Did you receive, as far as you are informed, all Lord Melville's private income in the capacity of his private agent? 4. I believe I received all his income arising in this country, but I cannot speak with certainty.-Q. Did you receive for him his salary as Treasurer of the Navy? A. I did. -Q. The whole of it? A. As far as I recollect, I did.—Q. Have you brought the date of the releases? 4. I have.Q. What are they? 4. They were signed by Lord Melville upon the 18th of February 1803, and by myself upon the 23d of that month.-Q. You having stated yourself to be still private agent to Lord Melville, what circumstance then led to the execution of mutual releases between you and. Lord Melville? 4. I know no circumstance, excepting that of his lordship having left this country, and as I thought, without any intention of returning, and I conceived that it would be a satisfaction to Lord Melville as well as myself that our heirs, in case of the death of either of us, should have as little trouble as possible in arranging the several accounts which had existed so long between us. -Q. Were the books of account destroyed before or after the execution of the releases? A. It was after that date.-Q. Who preceded you as paymaster? A. Mr. Douglas. Q. Is he dead? A. He is. -Q. When did he die? 4. In December 1785.- Q. Have you any means of knowing how long Lord Melville had had in his possession the sum of 10,000l. which Lord Melville acknowledged to have had in his possession at the time you became payinas ter? A. I have not.- -Q. How did Lord Melville describe to you that he had become possessed of the 10,000l. which he then described himself to owe to the navy pay-office? A. I do not remember that his lordship explained himself to me upon that subject.- -Q. Had you any means of knowing whether that had been applied to a public or a private purpose? A. I had not, further than his lordship having expressed his appre hensions that it might ultimately be prejudicial to his interest.—Q. In what manner? A. He did not enter further in explanation with me on the subject.-Q. When you described this sum of 10,000l. to make part of a sum of 30,000l. which had been advanced to Mr. Tweedy for the use of Lord Melville, did you mean that you had been informed by Mr. Tweedy of this sum being so applied; or was it from Lord Melville only that you derived any knowledge of this sum of 10,000l.? A. It was from Lord Melville only that I had any information upon the subject of this 10,000l.; and if I have conveyed, by my former evidence, the idea that this sum of money had been advanced to Lord Melville through the means of Mr. Tweedy, I must beg to correct that statement.-Q. Has that 10,000l. been repaid? A. That 10,000l. as well as every other sum for which Lord Melville has been indebted to the public, as Treasurer of the Navy, and which has accrued since the year 1780, when I was appointed Paymaster, has been repaid. 7th May.-Q. Where were the releases executed between you and Lord Melville? 4. The release was signed by his lordship at his own house in Scotland, and by myself in London.-Q. Did any conversation relative to the account-books, or their destruction, take place between you and Lord Melville previous to their being destroyed? 4. The subject never came under consideration between his lordship and myself, to the best of my recollection.-Q. Has any subsequent conversation taken place on that subject? A. None, except of my having informed his lordship of the fact, and the re-' gret which we have both felt on the circumstance.Q. Has any communication by letter, before or since, taken place upon that subject? A. None whatever. Q. Can you give to the committee any more precise explanation of the conversation which you related yesterday to have taken place between you and Lord Melville, at the time he acknowledged his debt of 10,0001. to the public, when you commenced Paymaster, or can you recollect with more precision what the words were used by Lord Melville? A. I am sorry, from the distance of time when that conversation took place, that I have it not in my power to give any further explanation upon that subject. -Q. Please to repeat his words, as near as you can recollect, that you before mentioned? 4. His lordship expressed his apprehensions that the circumstance alluded to might ultimately prove prejudicial to him, and which I concluded to be meant in a pecuniary light.-Q. What circumstance? A. The circumstance of the balance put under my charge being about 10,000l. less than the balance for which he was accountable to the public.Q. Do you know whether L rd Melville has attested and returned to the proper officer, the general statement of his accounts transmitted to him to attest, but which, as appears in the 134th page of -- the Tenth Report, had not then been returned to the accountant, which prevented the account from being delivered into the Auditor's office? A. His lordship has attested and returned, the account, and it was detained at the time which the accountant mentions, from the statement which had been sent to his lordship for his attestation having been found incomplete.-Q. Are the drafts drawn upon the bank from the Navy Pay-Office, when paid, returned to the office at stated periods? 4. They are always returned when the book is balanced, which has been generally, but not invariably, once a month.- Q. When returned, are they preserved?'A. They have not been preserved, as they are considered to be of no use when the balance is agreed.—Q. During the fourteen years you were paymas ter, did you receive in all, upon Lord Melville's private account, to the amount of 20.0001. ? 1. I certainly have.-Q. What were the sources of income in England, of which you described yourself yesterday to be in the receipt on account of Lord Melville? A. I have, I believe, aniformly received his salary as Treasurer of the Navy; but I do not recollect that any other receipts which have come into my hands of his lordship's income was derived from any public situation, but has been con-, fined to sums which I may have received in the management of his private affairs. Q. What was the largest sum you ever had in your hands of the private account of "Lord Melville at one. time? 4. That appears. perfectly impossible for me to ascertain, as his private transactions passed through an 'account current in which his lordship was generally indebted to me; but at other times the balance was in favour of his lordship, when I neither charged interest upon any balance due by his lordship, nor did I charge myself with any interest at times when the balance may have been in his lordship's favour.-Q. Do you recollect the largest balance in the account current that ever appeared in favour of Lord Melville? A. In an account comprehending so long a period, it is very difficult for me, to give an accurate answer to that question; but it certainly has at some time been as large as between 2,0001. or 3,000l. in Lord Melville's favour.-Q. Do you recollect the largest balance in the account current that ever appeared in your favour, with the same degree of accuracy? A. I do not recollect with the same degree of accuracy, but I have upon a former occasion declared it had never exceeded from 10 to 20,000l.—Q. Do you now allude to the sums mentioned in |