JOURNAL of the PROCEEDINGS of the FIFTH, SESSION of the SIXTEENTH PARLIAMENT of GREAT BRITAIN.

HOUSE

JUNE 2.

COUNSEL were heard for and against the Coal Buyers bill, and after examining evidence at the bar,

The Lord Chancellor moved, that the fecond reading of the bill be pottponed.

The Earl of Hopetoun faid, he wished the bill then to be read a fecond time, as it might afterwards be debated in the Committee.

The Lord Chancellor defired further time to confider the principle of the bill, which he faid ftruck him as well deferving the attention of the Houfe. Without giving any decifive opinion on the queftion, he could not help obferving, that it was a very strong meafure for a fet of men, who had formed themselves into a compact or fociety, acting in direct oppofition to a penal statute, to come forward with a bill, not for the purpofe of repealing that ftatute, but folely to indemnify themfelves against the penalties which they had incurred in confequence of their having avowedly fet the law at defiance. He thought the question of fufficient importance to juftify delay. He therefore moved, that the further confideration of the bill be poftponed till Wednesday fe'nnight. The motion paffed in the affirmative.

SATURDAY, JUNE 7.

Their Lordships, contrary to ufage, met this day for the difpatch of business, when Counfel were heard at the bar against the fecond reading of the Wool bill.

Sir Jofeph Banks, Mr. Young, and Mr. Meerow were called as evidence, to fubftantiate the facts alluded to by the Counfel.

After a full hearing,

Lord Hopetoun moved, that the further confideration of the bill be deferred till Monday next, which was agreed to.

His Lordship then moved, that the evidence might be printed.

After a few words from the Duke of Norfolk, against the motion, the question was put and negatived.

Lord Stanhope reminded the Houfe, that as bufinefs of importance was fixed for Monday next, if the Gentlemen on the Wool bill did not punctually attend, he should move immediately for going into the order of the day. Adjourned.

JUNE 9.

Their Lordships proceeded farther in hearing Counfel and examining witneffes in the Wool bill.

OF LORD S.

The order of the day, for fending the Wool bill to a Committee of the whole Houfe, having been read, it was moved, "That the bill be committed."

Lord Brownlow oppofed it on this ground, that no evidence had been adduced to prove the only allegation on which the bill was founded, viz. That the fmuggling of Wool into France had lately increafed.

The Earl of Hopetoun alfo oppofed the commitment of the bill, which he could confider in no other light than that of a monopoly to the manufacturers, and as injurious to the wool-growers, and the landed intereft, as it was impolitic.

Earl Fitzwilliam wifhed that the Committee might be deferred till Friday, and he was going to make a motion to that effect, when he was informed that the motion then before the Houfe must be first difpofed of.

Lord Hay (Earl of Kinnoul in Scotland) defended the general principle of the bill; he faid it was a maxim founded in wisdom, that the raw material produced by any coun try should be manufactured at home: this country could manufacture its wocl, if it was not exported it was wife therefore to prohibit the exportation of it. The evi. dence given at the bar had proved the neceffity of the bill, arifing from the great mcreafe of the practice of fmuggling wool into France. He faid, that one great fource of happiness to this country was the harmony that fubfifted between the landed and commercial interefts; and nothing could be more injurious to it than the fowing of any jealoufy between them.

Lord Hawkesbury followed Lord Hay, and tupported the bill.-The House then divided on the motion for committing the bill, when there appeared Contents 27Non-contents 9-Majority in favour of the

bill 18.

Earl Bathurst prefided in the abfence of the Lord Chancellor.

JUNE 16.

The order of the day for receiving the report from the Committee on the CountyElection bill having been read,

The Lord Chancellor withing for fome further time to deliberate on the fubject matter of the bill, moved, that the further confideration of it should be put off to the next day.

Earl Stanhope oppofed the motion, which was at length negatived on a divifion. Con tents 6-Non contents 15.

The

The Wool bill having reached its laft. went through the fame with amendments, ftage, the third reading,

* This bill probably owed its being paffed to the abfence of the Lord Chancellor, who had oppofed it, and was now prevented from attending in his place by indifpofition.

Lord Bathurft, who fat as Speaker in the abience of the Lord Chancellor, expreffed his wishes for the attendance of their Lordfhips while the bill thould be in the Committee. After what had been given in evidence on this fubje&t, their Lordships muft be convinced, he faid, that if the bill could he rendered palatable at all, it must be by making fome effential alterations in it.

Lord Stanhope faid, that whatever might be the alterations which fome noble Lords might think neceffary to make in the bill, the evidence delivered in at the bar muft convince them that in the mode of carrying on the Slave Trade, there was a radical evil, to which the wifdom and humanity of the He Legislature fhould apply a remedy. would not recapitulate the evidence, but he could not avoid remarking upon one point of it. It had been proved that on board the thips employed in the Slave Trade, seven Negroes, upon an average, out of every hundred, died in their paffage to the Weft Indies, in the courfe of the three months which the voyage lafted. It was calculated that in general over the face of the earth, there did not die in a year more than one out of a hundred: he would admit, however, that the dangers of the fea being taken into confideration, it might be expected that the mortality of the Negroes, under good regulation, might amount to two in every hundred; but at prefent it amounted to feven; fo that it might be literally faid that from the prefent mode of carrying on the trade five perfons out of every hundred were actually murdered. This traffic therefore might be styled a murderous traffic, and called loudly for the interference of the Legiflature.

The Duke of Richmond did not with to give fo harfh an epithet to a traffic that had long been carried on, if not with the approbation, at leaft with the knowledge and connivance of the Legiflature. However, fince it had been proved that great evils had attended the trade, it was fit that the Legiflature fhould devite remedies. If Negroes were abfolutely neceffary for the cultivation of the West India iflands, and he fuppofed they were, let the planters pay a little more for them, and let not the poor unhappy Negroes be any longer crouded in fuch numbers in each fhip.

The Duke of Chandos wifhed the bill was poftponed till the general queftion, whether the Slave Trade should or should not be aboIfhed, might come before Parliament: he thought the prefent bill would preclude all cifcuffion of that general queftion, by annihilating the trade. His Grace expreffed his fears, that if the prefent bill thould pafs, it would find its way to the Welt-Indies, when

the Negroes, taking it as decifive of the illegality and inhumanity of the Slave Trade, would rife upon and maffacre all the white inhabitants.

Lord Hopetoun felt no alarm for the fafety of the whites in the Weft Indies, which he was fure could not be endangered by the prefent bill. The Slave Trade, he was free to fay, was attended with evils which their The Lordships were bound to remove. Negroes, however, were not the only fufferers; those who were beft acquainted with it affirmed, that the flave coaft was the grave of British feamen.

Lord Stanhope's motion for the commit ment of the bill on the morrow then paffed without a divifion.

Upon the fecond reading of the Distillery

bill,

The

Lord Kinnaird oppofed it in a most animated fpeech: His Lordfhip faid, the law was a direct infraction of the Union. compact made at that memorable epoch knew of no diftinction in the mode of levying duties on fubfidies. He, as a citizen of the kingdom at large, knew but one general compact, and one kingdom; but the prefent bill would re-establish this odious diftinction.

Lord Hawkesbury answered the arguments of the Noble Lord; after which the House divided, Contents for the fecond reading 14, Noes 5; Majority 9.

The bill was ordered to be read a fecond time to-morrow.

JUNE 25.

The Royal Affent was given by commiffion to the American Loyalift bill, the County Election bill, the bill to prevent the exportation of wool, the bill for laying a duty on Hides, Skins, &c. the Quebec Rum bill, the Stage-Coach bill, the Frame-Work Knitters bill, the Chimney-Sweepers bill, Mr. Twifs's Divorce bill, and three others.

The Houfe immediately after formed itfelf into a Committee on the Slave Trade bill, when a converfation took place refpecting the period at which the operation of the bill

is to commence.

Lord Bathurst argued against making the bill retrofpective.-His Lordship contended, that all ex poft facto laws were unjust, and that the prefent bill would be particularly fo.

That no compenfation the Legislature could propofe could poffibly meet the cafe. -The merchants had embarked their adventures before the bill was proposed; and, as the bill ftood, the bill was to attach upon them

them from the 10th of June, and thus fub. jeft them to the certainty of a lofs, after they had put themselves to the whole expence of an adventure.-His Lordship rezfored with all that earnestnefs for juftice that has ever characterifed the noble Earl's public conduct.

Lord Rodney fpoke againft the bill.-His Lordship faid it was abfurd to fuppofe that the merchants, whofe profit arofe from the number of healthy Africans they landed in the Weft-India iflands, would not attend to their own interefts, and take every poflible care to preferve their health-His Lordship reminded the Houfe, that the French goverr ment acted in a very different manner refpefting the African trade; fo far from withing to curb and cramp it with needlefs regulations, they gave large premiums upon every Negro landed on their islands in the Weft-Indies.

The Duke of Richmond faid, he intended to propofe a claufe to give a compensation to all thofe merchants, whofe thips were already failed, or would be in Africa at the time that the bill fhould pafs, for the loffes they would incur from the bill attaching upon their fhips retrospectively-In refpect to the day on which the bill was to commence, it certainly ought to be altered, and not to ftand the roth of June.

The Lord Chancellor faid, he prefumed the with of their Lordships was to pass fome b of regulation; but as the bill stood, it was nonienfe. He pointed out the words, "the 10th of June," as stated in one clause to be the period of the commencement of the operation of the bill, and faid, that in a febfequent claufe, at fome diftance, mention was made of fuch fhips as had failed before the 10th of June, although in the former part of the bill no notice whatever had been taken of any thing in the bill being to affect fps that had failed before the roth of Jane.

His Lordship obferved, that from what had fallen from a noble Lord, (Lord Rodnev) it was evident the French had offered premiums to encourage the African trade (whether from folly or inhumanity was not the question), and that they had fucceeded; the natural prefumption therefore was, that we ought to do the fame.-For his part, he' had no fcruple to fay, that if "the five days fit of philanthropy" that had just sprung up, and which had flept for 200 years together, had continued to fleep one fummer longer, it would have appeared to him rather more wife than thus to take up a fubject piecemel, which it had been publicly declared thod not be agitated at all till the next feffion of Parliament.-Perhaps, by their

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imprudence, they might teach the flaves to do that themfelves, viz. to proceed to an abolition of the trade, which they had declared, in their opinion, ought not to he done at prefent.-His Lordship made fome remarks on the evidence, in order to fhew that the African merchants, trufting to the declaration, that the qu-ftion fhould not be agitated this feffions, hd embarked their all in the adventures of the fhips already failed, and would be ruined by the bill.

The Earl of Carlile declared himfelf å hearty friend to the prefent bill, which was merely a bill of regulation as to the mode of tranfporting Africans to the Weft-Indies. He had not a doubt but the ingenuity, enterprize, and adroitnefs of British merchants would find out a new African trade, equally advantageous and useful, though not liable to the fame objections, were an abolition of the Slave Trade to take place. Lordship added a variety of arguments in His favour of the bill.

Lord Hopetoun ftrenuously supported the bill.

The Duke of Chandos faid, he held in his hand a paper, that he had received fince he entered the Houfe, and which had that day only been received from Jamaica. The paper was a letter to Mr. Fuller, the agent for Jamaica, informing him that his correfpondents in the inland had received his communications of the roth of Feb. and the 12th of March ult.; that in confequence the Negroes expected an end was to be put to their flavery; that there was the greatest reafon to expect they would life in confequence, and that the inland was in a state of great apprehenfion.

Lord Sydney profeffed the highest respect for the characters of those Gentlemen with whom the bill had originated in the other Houfe, and gave them full credit for the purity of their motives; but, notwithstanding his conviction, that both the one and the other deferved every degree of confidence and esteem, he could not but confefs, that he wifhed the humanity of the African merchants had been relied on for a few months longer, and that it had been taken for granted, that, pledged as the Legiflature was to difcufs the general queftion fully next feffion, the merchants would not have abufed their own characters fo much as to have rendered themfelves obnoxious to parliamentary cenfure, when the fubject thould be taken into confideration.

After more defultory conversation, the Committee proceeded to fill up the blanks, and about nine o'clock Lord Walfingham reported a progrefs, and moved for leave to fit again on Thursday.

H

JUNE

JUNE 26.

Sir Lloyd Kenyon, Bart. having been, by Letters Patent, created Baron Kenyon of Gredington, in the county of Flint, was introduced between Lord Sydney and Lord Walfingham, the Deputy Great Chamberlain : Sir Francis Molyneux and Garter King at Arms preced.ng; his patent was in the ufual form delivered to the Lord Chancellor, and his writ of fummons read at the table; his Lordship then took the oaths, and afterwards his feat.

A petition of Jofeph Aldern, one of the Conftables who attended at the trial of Warren Haftings, Efq. was prefented and read, complaining of his having been profecuted by William Hyde, Efq. one of his Majesty's Juftices of the Peace for the city of Weftminfter, and county of Middlesex, for refufing him admittance into WestminsterHall, on one of the days of trial, Mr. Jultice Hyde refusing to fhew a ticket of admittance to the Petitioner, which other Magiftrates had done, by order of Sir Peter Burrell, before they could come in; and alfo ftating that the Petitioner had been put to upwards of 151. expence, by defending the action, and praying their Lordships to take his cafe into confideration.

Jofeph Aldern was then called to the bar, and examined. He was then directed to withdraw.

A motion was afterwards made, "That William Hyde, Efq. one of his Majesty's Juftices of the Peace for the county of Middlefex, do attend this Houfe to-morrow. Adjourned.

JUNE 27.

This day Mr. Hyde attended according to order, to answer to the complaint brought against him by the Conftable Aldern. Being afked by the Lord Chancellor, How he could prefume to endeavour to force his way into Westminster-Hall in violation of the orders of that Houfe, and how he dared to profecute a Conftable for having obeyed thofe orders? Mr. Hyde replied, That he had the most profound refpe&t for the Houfe and its orders, and that nothing could be further from his intention than to difpute or violate the latter. On the contrary, he had always been ready, whenever the King went to Parliament, or any thing particular was going forward, to attend and keep the paffages leading to their Lordships Houfe clear from all obftruction. As to the profecution of the Conftable, he had not brought it through any difrefpect to the orders of the Houfe, but because the Conftable had affaulted him, and grofsly abused him, and he was fure he should have convicted him, had he not forgot to bring his commission into Court as a Magiftrate. For want of these

documents, it did not appear in evidence that he was in the Commiflion of the Peace, and on this ground the Constable was acquitted.

The Lord Chancellor faid, it was very happy for him that the Constable had not been convicted; for if he had, their Lordships would punish Mr. Hyde the more feverely.

Lord Bathurst then moved that Mr. Hyde be committed to the custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending that House. This motion paffed without a diffenting voice, and the juttice was accordingly committed.

Their Lordships then refumed the Committee on the Slave Trade bill, when a tedious converfation took place on various amendments that were proposed: the Committee was but thinly attended, there being prefent at the beginning not more than 18 Lords; and at the conclufion not half that number. JUNE 30.

Earl Bathurst prefented a petition from Mr. Hyde, who was called to the bar, repri manded, and ordered to be difcharged, on paying the fees.

A petition was prefented from the EaftIndia Company, praying that their books and records might be returned to them during the adjournment of Mr. Haftings' trial.

The House refolved itself into a Committee on the bill for regulating the transportation of flaves from the coast of Africa to the West. Indies, went through the remaining clauses, and added feveral new ones.

The Duke of Richmond propofed a claufe for compensating fuch loffes as may be suftained by the traders in confequence of the regulations enacted by the bill; directing alfo the appointment of Commiffioners to enquire into and to estimate fuch loffes.

The Lord Chancellor was of opinion, that it would be more agreeable to the common law of the land, as well as more fatisfactory both to the parties concerned and the public at large, to have the loffes afcertained by a jury; and thought a jury of merchants fully competent to estimate them. But whatever tribunal fhould be appointed to decide on them, he contended most strenuously, that it was incumbent on the Houfe as men, and as legiflators, to lay down in the bill itself fome general principle, or principles, by which that tribunal fhould be guided in making the estimate. He argued this point at great length, and stated what appeared to him, on fuch knowledge of the fubject as he had been able to acquire, during the time the bill had been before the Houfe, the proper principle to be adopted, and the extent to which compenfation ought, in justice and equity, to be given.

The Duke of Richmond contended that no general principle which the House could adopt, would comprehend every species of

lofs