lition of the Corn Laws after the expira- | facturing districts? Now, he was strongly tion of three years. He did not mean to of opinion that the duration of life and the impute motives to those Colleagues of the capability of serving in the army, formed right hon. Baronet: no one would dare to two excellent tests of the physical condiimpute unworthy motives to the noble Duke tion of a population. In these the agriculin another place, who approved of that tural districts had the superiority; and he change; but he could not understand their was of opinion that the comparison would conduct. The right hon. Baronet had ex- be also favourable to them as regarded the pressed his opinion, that if he opened the great social advantages. He gave no credit ports on that occasion, he would not close to the farmer in consequence of the emthem again; and in that opinion he thought ployment to which he put his labourers the right hon. Baronet was wrong. The being of a healthy description; nor did he right hon. Baronet had admitted that attach blame to the manufacturers because changes had taken place in his opinion the labour at which their operatives were since his first introduction of the question, employed was not so favourable to the duand in that respect he illustrated a well-ration of human life as that of the agriculknown principle in human nature, accord-tural districts; but when the House of ing to which persons became attached to Commons was called upon to consider such that for which they had made sacrifices; a question, they had a perfect right to conand he believed that the sacrifices which sider the comparative effects of agriculture the right hon. Baronet had made with re- and manufactures on the physical condispect to this question, had been greater tion of the labourers. Assuming that this than was anticipated. He brought for- change was made in deference to the maward the measure on the ground of policy; nufacturing interests, he would remark but he found himself opposed by 240 Mem- that they were far from being unanimous bers of that House, and then he raised it in its favour. And here he would observe, into a question of justice; and if he found that as regarded the manufacturing intehereafter that the opposition to it in ano- rest, the sooner the question of the Ten ther place should be still more determined Hours' labour was settled the better; for than that which it had met with in this to that measure the great body of the opeHouse, he might raise it, as some reverend ratives were much attached; and it might orators at Covent Garden Theatre had done, be attributed to that very circumstance that into a religious question. But whatever so many of them became converted to the might be the changes in the views of the right principles of free trade in corn. He would hon. Baronet, the question itself remained tell the House how that change was cfIt was no more a question of fected. The operatives got the notion into religion or justice now than it was last their heads that many of the agricultural It was a question involving great Members in that House had rescinded commercial and social considerations, but their votes on the factory question, with was no more a question of justice or reli- the view of keeping in office the right hon. gion than the duties on hair powder. Un- Baronet. While he could not very accufair allusion had been made by the hon.rately tell whether the motives attributed the Secretary at War to the speech of the by the operatives to such hon. Members hon. Member for Oxfordshire; but the gist were accurate or not, yet he would say of the hon. Member's statement was, that that any hon. Member who rescinded his the prospect of prolonged life was greater vote on that question, and with such a view, in the agricultural than in the manufac- would soon discover that he had committed turing districts. That was a valuable test a most egregious mistake; for the feelings of the physical condition of the people. of the manufacturing operatives have been But he would suggest another test, which, thus more than once expressed: they said, from the office which the right hon. Gen-"If the question of the Corn Laws was to tleman (Mr. S. Herbert) held, might have stand in the way of the Ten Hours' Bill, some influence with him, namely, the re- they would rather throw the Corn Law cruiting officer's test. He would not ask from what district the greatest proportion of recruits came; but he would ask if any village in Wiltshire or Dorsetshire could not furnish a greater number of adult males capable of serving in the army, than any population of the same extent in the manu

the same.

year.

question overboard, than be deprived of what they esteemed a favourable regulation of labour." That was one great reason why so many of the operatives had fallen in with the cry which was raised against the Corn Laws. He was now drawing nearly to the close of his address,

was also to be considered that a vast mprovement in the land had taken place, been summoned to attend on the Com

might render it imperative that he should attend the House. The House ought to take this matter into consideration, and make some rules to facilitate the passing of private Bills.

mittee of the Liverpool Waterworks, and | he was anxious to have the benefit of the Speaker's advice as to whether he was to attend the debate in that House or to sit on the Committee. The latter body was composed of but two or three Members, and if he were to absent himself to-day, the Committee would be broken up. He was anxious, however, to be present at the debate on the Factory Bill, and he really felt himself in a position of great difficulty as to the course he should adopt. The present system of things was one which was calculated to cause much perplexity and difficulty to Members, and loudly called for the correction of the House. Unless the House would make some new regulation, it would be extremely difficult for Members to discharge their duties with satisfaction either to themselves or their constituents.

SIR GEORGE GREY thought that hon. Members should be permitted to exercise their own discretion as to whether they would attend on Committees or in that House. No doubt much difficulty and perplexity must arise to honourable Members when that House and the Committees were sitting concomitantly; but the best plan was for Members to act according to the best discretion in making a selection. Looking at the great importance of the question to be debated to-day, he did not think that any hon. Member could be censured if, when put to the alternative, he preferred attending in the House to sitting in a Committee. The better course would have been for the Committee, perhaps, to have adjourned over.

MR. SPEAKER begged leave to remind the hon. Member for Nottingham (Mr. Gisborne) that there was no question before the Chair. If the hon. Gentleman had given notice of his intention to propose any resolution in reference to this matter, the whole subject might have been formally discussed; but, in the absence of any such notice, the discussion was irregular. The hon. Member's attendance was not compulsory, and the better course was that he should act according to his own discretion.

Subject dropped.

THE TEN HOURS' FACTORY BILL. The Order of the Day for the resumption of the debate on the Ten Hours' Factory Bill having been read,

MR. COLQUHOUN said, he was anxious to explain the considerations which prevailed with him in inducing him to give his support to the Motion that the Bill originally introduced by Lord Ashley, and now, in the absence of that noble Lord, brought forward by his Friend the hon. Member for Oldham, be read a second time. Before doing so, however, he must be allowed to express the surprise with which he had listened to a statement made by his Friend the right hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the last day that this measure was under discussion, to the effect that the MR. BERNAL contended, that it was House had never pronounced any opinion highly inexpedient and improper to throw in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill. This stateupon Members the responsibility of deter- ment struck him as extraordinary, and apmining whether they would attend in that peared to him to be scarcely consistent with House or sit in Committees to which they the facts of the case, for he had a distinct had been summoned. The House ought, recollection that when Lord Ashley made unquestionably, to make some rule or regu- a Motion by way of Amendment to a twelve lation on this subject, and not place indi-hour clause, introduced by the right hon. vidual Members in the odious and invididious position of determining, by the exercise of their own discretion, whether they would attend that House or on Committee. It was certainly a matter of great delicacy and difficulty for a Member to absent himself from a Committee, and thereby cause great delay to public business, and perhaps an expenditure of four or five hundred pounds to parties who were interested in promoting or resisting railway or other Bills; but, on the other hand, a Member's duty to his constituency

Baronet himself into a former Bill, limiting the restriction to ten hours, the right hon. Baronet admitted, in almost as many words, that the decision at which the House on that occasion arrived was a formal affirmation of the principle of the Ten Hours' Bill. Whether the House were right or wrong in pronouncing that opinion, he would not just at that moment pause to consider; but that they had come formally and deliberately to a decision that it was desirable to abridge the hours of labour, in the manner proposed by Lord Ashley, was abso

lutely certain. The right hon. Baronet was now proposed. The cotton manufac(Sir James Graham) had justified his oppo- ture, so far from having been prejudiced sition to this measure on the plea that if it by the restrictions on labour which had were to receive the sanction of the Legis- been already imposed, had prospered under lature it would affect most injuriously our them to an unexampled degree. In fact, four great staple branches of manufacture it had taken a start, and acquired a deve-cotton, woollen, silk, and linen; but he lopment for which there was no parallel in could not bring himself to believe that it the antecedent history of the trade. The would have any such consequence. If he question now was-" shall the restrictions thought that the great staple manufactures already imposed remain as they are, or is of this country, or any of them, could be it wise and expedient that they shall be prejudiced by the further restriction of extended in any degree beyond their prehours of labour, he could not, on any con- sent limit?" There were many hon. Memsideration, be induced to consent to the bers who were in favour of a restriction to Bill of the hon. Member for Oldham; but eleven hours, hut who opposed a restriction he was convinced it would have no such to ten. Perhaps their views were prutendency. For many years he had voted dent and reasonable. He did not say to against the Motion of the noble Lord the the contrary; but what he was anxious to late Member for Dorsetshire; but the expe- impress on them was, that they might with rience, not of three only, but of very many perfect propriety and perfect consistency succeeding years, had now served to con- support the present Bill. He earnestly vince him that it was an error to entertain solicited them to do so. By so doing, they any apprehension of evil consequences would not be pledging themselves to any either to the employer or to the manufac- principle which they could not sanction. turer from such a Motion. The experi- The Bill contained only two clauses; and ence of past years had demonstrated that it should be borne in mind that the hon. the various branches of manufacture in this Member who introduced it only proposed country had not suffered from the restric- in the first instance to go for eleven hours. tions of the time of labour which had been What he proposed was, that the experiment already imposed, but that, on the contrary, of the eleven hour system should be tried signal advantage had accrued, as well to for two years. [An hon. MEMBER: For one the employers themselves as to the employ- year.] That made the case stronger. He ed. The honest and humane manufacturer advocated the experiment of the eleven hour knew that he would be benefited by the system for one year, and wished that after rational restriction of labour, and conse- that the ten hour system should be adopted; quently did not resist it. It was only the but observe, this prospective provision hardhearted and unfeeling amongst the might be modified or totally struck out manufacturers who systematically opposed from the Bill in Committee; and it would the principle, and clamoured for the conti- be quite optional for hon. Members to denuance of those extravagant hours of labour termine that the eleven hour restriction which were so much and so justly com- would be the utmost limit to which they plained of before the Act of 1833 was would go. It was quite competent for brought in. He was sure he was quite them to omit altogether in Committee the warranted by the fact in asserting that the clause having reference to ten hours, and good and the humane amongst the manu- to declare that they would take their stand facturers were strongly in favour of the on the eleven hour system, and not stir restrictions on the hours for labour which beyond it-at least not until ample opporhad already been imposed by the Legisla- tunity for testing the eleven hour system ture. The question now really to be de- had been afforded. It was clear, therecided was, not the theoretic one whether fore, that they would act with perfect conit were desirable to restrict the hours of sistency in supporting the second reading. labour or not that principle had been al- And now he would address himself to the ready practically affirmed-but whether consideration of the eleven hour restriction. things should continue in precisely their For the present he would confine himself present position, or the restrictions which to that point. His Friend the right hon. had already been imposed be extended Baronet the Secretary for the Home Deand rendered more stringent. That was partment, when last this question was unin fact the real question at issue. In his der discussion, had said, that he appreopinion, the experience of the past fully hended very injurious results from the justified them in going a step further, as measure to the cotton manufacturer of

Let

England, who, he feared, would be unable | perience of the Messrs. Gardiner, who to maintain competition with the manufac- themselves abridged the hours of labour to turers of the Continent, where the hours of eleven hours, which was followed with the factory labour were longer than in this best consequences to all concerned. He country. He believed it was quite true, would ask the House to consider too what as stated, that on the Continent generally was the amount of disadvantage which the hours of labour were longer. He was would result to the manufacturer from that well aware that in France and Austria, in- system? It had been estimated by the manustead of the period of labour being confined facturers themselves, who were adverse to to sixty-nine hours per week, as in Eng- the present Bill, and whose testimony on land, it was seventy-eight hours, and in the point was of course unexceptionable. many instances as much as eighty-five. He would accept the calculation which he He admitted that, apparently, there was had seen in a Manchester paper, and thus a great advantage in favour of the which had been made by Mr. Eccles, who French manufacturer; but he would take calculated the loss at 7 per cent. leave to put before them the real facts of it then be taken at that calculation; but the case, which he obtained only a few look at the other side of the question. weeks since from Mr. Waddington, an What was the value of the advantage Englishman of very high character, who which had been secured to the manufacfor the last twenty years had been a manu- turer last year by the remission of the facturer of cotton in Rouen. This gentle-duty on cotton? An eminent manufac man, who had recently occasion to call on certain parties in France to join him as capitalists in extending that branch of manufacture in Rouen, had assured him, that the result of his experience, on a comparison of the labouring classes of both countries, was, that the French operative, working fourteen hours a day, would not be able to accomplish the same amount of labour as the English operative working ten hours a day. That was his experience for years, and he gave as a proof only not immediately in the spinning or weaving departments, where the skill demanded was greater the working of railway labourers. All the higher branches of railway labour between Rouen and Paris were filled by English workmen, who were paid nearly twice the amount of wages that Frenchmen were, simply because their labour was nearly twice as valuable; and it was an unquestionable fact that those Englishmen actually worked fewer hours a day than the French labourers, and yet did double the amount of labour. He could not see, therefore, how it could be contended that because skilled labour in France was cheaper than in England, inHe was certain that it would be jury would result to the English manufac- for the interest even of the manufacturer turer from a restriction of the hours of himself that this restriction should take toil. The right hon. Baronet had said place. The real state of the manufacturthat such a measure would amount to a taxing districts in England and Scotland was on the manufacturer's capital; but what this-there were great capitals competing would be the amount of that tax? Be it remembered he was talking of the eleven hour system, to which the House might, if it chose, limit itself by a Resolution to that effect in Committee. For proof of its advantage he would refer to the ex

turer of Glasgow who petitioned the House for the remission of the duty had estimated it in his petition as equivalent to a tax of 3 per cent on the great bulk of cotton exports, which were heavy goods. The duty, therefore, having been estimated as a tax of 3 per cent on the great bulk of exported manufactures, the advantage of the remission might be very fairly estimated at the same sum. One advantage, tantamount to 3 per cent, had been thus secured to him; but then consider what benefit he was likely to realize from certain great commercial changes which were in contemplation to regulate the importation of corn. According to the views of hon. Gentlemen opposite, very material advantages would accrue to the cotton manufacturer from those changes. If, therefore, it could be shown that they were going to give to the cotton manufacturer advantages more than equivalent to the tax they were going to impose, were there not good and valid reasons why, due regard being had to the interests of the employed, the hours of labour should be restricted? He did not place it, however, on this exclusive basis.

for profit, and great masses of labour competing for employment; and the necessary result was, that where labour was growing with a rapidity far beyond the extent of investment, great though that was, labour became prostrate and was thrown at the