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since the House had met,even with respect to that vital question of the Corn-laws-a question of which it was not too much to say, that its present condition suspended all contracts between landlord and tenantwhen it was remembered, that the only thing done was to pass an Indemnity bill which was done with as little ceremony as an ordinary road bill-when petitions were presented from the inhabitants of onceflourishing parts of the empire praying to be removed from a country in which they see nothing but despair-when another most serious and appalling question had been omitted, he meant Ireland; after the hints, not obscurely given, that when England should have sufficient occupation for the troops now stationed there, the Catholics of Ireland would seek to regain those rights for which they have petitioned in vain-when he found that unless that question was met-promptly met-Ireland must be lost-and yet not one word had been said on the subject that looked like

House and the country had wisely and consistently determined upon taking that course in behalf of Portugal, under existing circumstances, which, while it afforded a just protection to our ally, at the same time held out the surest promise of preventing the real calamities of war. Independently of the real exertion which was on this occasion demonstrated, he did hope that the moral effect of the proceeding would be, to avert hostilities, by diffusing the general assurance, that the policy avowed by England was adopted and confirmed by the unanimous voice of parliament and the people. He heartily joined with those who deprecated war. He fully concurred in their sense of its calamities, how likely it always was to impede the march of civilization, and to check the current of national industry. At the same time he must repeat his perfect conviction, that the surest method of preserving peace was to maintain the national honour and good faith unimpeached and inviolate. He should have simply moved this adjourn-relief-when he saw all those things, he ment without observation, had he not been informed, that some objection was to be taken to what was called the unusual length of the proposed recess. Now every adjournment must necessarily depend upon the particular circumstances of each peNEWSPAPERS AND PAMPHLETSriod when it took place; and there was STAMP DUTIES ON.] Mr. Hume said, nothing in the present, different from the that had there been a sufficient attendance, practice observed on similar occasions, it was his intention to have called the when parliament had an carlier winter sit- attention of the House to some subjects of ting. At their next meeting it was in- considerable importance connected with tended to lose no time in bringing forward the revenue; such as the duty on newsthe most important public business of the papers, advertisements, pamphlets, innation. Indeed, so fixed was this deter-surances, &c. He considered the duty on mination on the part of his majesty's government, that his right hon. friend had empowered him to give notice, that on the Monday following the 8th of February, he intended to submit to the House, a motion which would specifically introduce the great question of the Corn-laws.

could not but think, that a much earlier period of meeting would be more congenial with the situation in which the country was placed.

newspapers, not only a great public injury, but a loss to the revenue. He was confident, that he should be able at a proper season to show, that great and most desirable advantages would arise from a reduction of those duties. He was satisfied that if government would take off twoMr. John Williams concurred with the pence-halfpenny from the duty, the revenue right hon. gentleman, that the House and would be benefitted by the increase, which the government had come to a sound de- would be thus occasioned in the circulation cision as to the course to be pursued re- of newspapers. He was warranted in specting Portugal. He, however, certainly anticipating this effect by a reference to thought the period of the adjournment too the duties levied on newspapers in other long. The situation of the country must countries. In the United States of Ame at all times determine the circumstances rica, where there was no duty, or but a of the case, and it was his misfortune to very small one, there were no less than differ from almost all the members of the five hundred and ninety-eight newspapers House, as to the conduct they had pur-in constant circulation; while, according sued that session. When it was borne in to the last returns, made in 1821, the mind, that nothing whatever had been done whole number of newspapers in circulation

throughout society. When it was considered how much was to be found in weekly papers besides mere ordinary news, and when it was considered how much the quantity of such matter would be augmented, if the duty were taken off, the importance of these publications, for the purposes which he had pointed out, might be estimated. Amongst those who had turned their consideration to this subject, it was a prevailing opinion, that if in a weekly publication matters of news were made to form a secondary and subordinate part, and if the principle portion of the publication were devoted to science, the arts, and to objects connected with general

in England, Ireland, and Scotland, did not amount to more than two hundred and eighty-four. He trusted that these facts would be sufficient to show the expediency of adopting some modification of those duties. In 1797, and again in 1815, when a new rate was levied, the effects were found to be such as warranted the ground he was now taking. By the returns made for the periods antecedent and subsequent to those years, the expectations of a consequent improvement of the revenue were far from being realised. Indeed, in proportion to the relative state of the country at the different periods to which he had alluded, this branch of the national finances would be found to have retrograded. How-useful knowledge, such a paper would be ever, these were matters into which he should be prepared to go more fully at a proper season. He would, at present, move for a return of the amount of duty received for Stamps on Newspapers, in each year, for the last thirty years.

Mr. Brougham seconded the motion, and hoped that his hon. friend would persevere in his praise-worthy exertions. The hon. member had with great constancy and assiduity devoted his time and energies to many subjects of importance and utility, but amongst all the measures on which he had exercised his zeal and his abilities, hardly any was, in his opinion, of greater interest, in all its bearings, and of more general advantage, than the present. The measure to which his hon. friend had called the attention of the House was one of importance, whether it was considered in reference to the advantageous effects which it was calculated to produce upon the revenue, or with relation to the still more enlarged benefit, of which it would be the source, by the diffusion of information amongst the people. He did not, however, mean, by what he now said, to commit himself as to the course which he should feel it his duty to adopt, when such an inquiry should be entered into. The subject was one which demanded much deliberate examination. From the impression which was at present predominant in his mind, he should feel disposed to draw a distinction between the daily and weekly newspapers. The revenue might afford to make an experiment in the one case, which it might not be able to do in the instance of the daily publications. The weekly newspapers might, he conceived, be rendered most valuable channels for the dissemination of science and intelligence

found the most useful and effectual organ of disseminating information among those classes to whom it was not at present accessible. The consideration of this subject led him to one, in some measure connected with it; but in the absence of the Attorney and Solicitor general, and considering the thin state of the House, and the advanced state of the session, he scarcely felt himself justified in alluding to the subject. He meant the law of libel at present. Some sessions ago he had brought forward a motion which had for its object the amendment of that law, and after some discussions on the subject he was allowed to bring in a bill, which was read a first time; but, in consequence of the late period of the session, and owing to the great opposition which the measure met with in certain quarters, it was dropped for that session, and he had never revived it, in consequence of the known hostility with which the measure was regarded by those whose opposition was sure to lead to its defeat. The object of that measure was to counteract the effects resulting from the law of libel, as that law was at present administered. And, if instances were wanting to prove the necessity of altering the law by a legislative enactment, the cases which had lately occurred in Westminster-hall would furnish unanswerable arguments in favour of the interference of that House to effect the desired object. When he introduced the motion to parliament to which he alluded, he then stated what he since had occasion, in several instances, to observe and comment on— that it was one of the greatest instances of injustice and oppression that men were subject to a prosecution by indictment for merely publishing that which was well

criminal, to give notice to the opposite side, of the line of defence meant to be adopted, and to give in evidence the truth, not that it might be pleaded in all cases as a justification, but that in all cases it might weigh with the jury, in order to show the motives by which defendants were actuated [hear, hear.]

Mr. Secretary Peel said, that the subject which the hon. and learned gentleman had thought proper to introduce without any notice, was too important to He should therefore

decline to give any specific answer to the hon. and learned gentleman at present. If, however, upon a due consideration of the subject, it should be found to be one deserving of that inquiry which was so strongly urged, he should be willing to attend to the suggestions thrown out by the hon. and learned gentleman.

After

The motion was agreed to. which the House adjourned to the 8th day of February.

HOUSE OF LORDS.
Thursday, February 8, 1827.

known to be true. A prosecution by in-
dictment bore doubly hard on the defend-
ant, because it deprived him of the advan-
tage of pleading the truth of the libel in
justification thereof. In an action at
common-law the truth of an alleged libel
could be pleaded in justification of the
libel itself; but in case of an indictment,
the individual was deprived of the power
of proving the truth of that for which he
was indicted, and punishment followed his
conviction, as if every word of the libel
with which he was charged were as abso-be considered now.
lutely and substantially false as it could
have been proved to be directly the reverse.
Persons unacquainted with the law of libel
as it was administered at present, could
hardly bring themselves to believe, that if
a man were to publish of another that he
was convicted of felony, he was liable to be
tried by indictment, and the jury must
find him guilty, although he had in his
pocket, at the trial, the copy of the record
of the conviction, as he (Mr. Brougham)
absolutely had in a late case, in which he
was professionally engaged, and, in which
his client was found guilty, notwithstanding
that the document by which his justification
could have been clearly made out was
ready to be produced; but could not be
used in evidence, according to the rules of
law. As far, therefore, as the conviction
went, the document was of no use to his
client; and even some doubts were enter-
tained, whether it should have any weight
with regard to the punishment, which by
the sentence of guilty, was awarded. There
were doubts, legal and learned doubts, as
to whether the punishment for the crime
of which his client was found guilty, should
be abated or not, notwithstanding that the
justification which he was prepared to
make, but could not make at the trial, was
urged in mitigation of the alleged offence.
The subject was of such deep importance
that he could not resist the opportunity of
broaching it once more, in the hope that
it would be taken up by one whose exer-
tions to purify and make simple some of
the existing laws had done him infinite
credit. If the consideration of the law of
libel should come within the inquiry of that
individual, he would find, by referring to
the bill which he had, on a former occa-
sion obtained leave to bring in, that the
most accurate and useful information was
embodied in the provisions of that bill, the
leading principle of which was, to allow
defendants in all cases, whether civil or

CORN LAWS.] The Earl of Liverpool gave notice, that he would, if nothing in the interim should happen to make it necessary to put off the motion to a further day, on Monday se'nnight, bring under the consideration of their lordships the subject of the Corn-laws.

The Earl of Lauderdale wished to know the nature of the proposition intended to be brought forward, and he would tell the noble earl his reason for so wishing. When the people of this country were about to express their opinion on the subject of any alteration in the Corn-laws, it was recommended to them, by the friends of ministers, to refrain from any expression of disapprobation until such time as the proposition which ministers intended to submit to parliament should be made known. Now, he thought that, after the propositions were made, not only the two Houses, but the public ought to have time to examine, and express their opinion upon them. If they had not time for this, they would be entrapped into a measure which, he would say, was one of the most important, both politically and economically, ever agitated.

The Earl of Liverpool said, he felt the importance of the subject as much as the noble carl did, and should never think of

calling upon parliament for any opinion upon it on the day on which he should bring forward his proposition.

The Earl of Lauderdale said, he wished that the country should have sufficient time to express its opinion: The noble lord must see that what he had stated did not meet his objection, because he had prefaced his observations by saying, that the adherents of ministers had recommended that no expression of public feeling should take place, and told the people to wait until ministers should bring forward their proposition, and then there would be time enough to give their opinion. This proceeding put him in mind of an anecdote told by his father-in-law. As he was stepping into his carriage, his coachman came up to him, and said, "As I know, Sir, that you like to be consulted, I think it right to inform you that I was married yesterday." Now, the two Houses of parliament were to give their decision on the noble lord's proposition first, and the country was to be consulted on the subject afterwards. What he wished distinctly to know was, whether the noble earl intended to allow sufficient time for the public at large to express an opinion. The Earl of Liverpool really did not know what the noble lord's calculation of sufficient time might be. All he could say was, that after he had submitted his proposition to their lordships, he should allow a reasonable time to intervene before he called upon them for their decision upon it.

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.] Viscount Clifden, in rising to present the first one of a great many petitions which he had to present from the Catholics of Ireland, felt himself bound to address a few observations to their lordships. He begged in particular to call their lordships' attention to the great alteration which had taken place in the circumstances of the Catholics within these two years. Since the question was formerly before their lordships, they had roused themselves, and become sensible of their strength. In one week, the Catholics of Waterford had defeated and disgraced the most opulent Protestant family in all Ireland. There were two other families more opulent; but they did not reside in Ireland, and were rather English than Irish. The members of this family were gentlemen of unblemished character, but distinguished

by their bitter hostility to the just claims of their Catholic fellow subjects, and for that hostility alone they were defeated in one week on their own ground. In Louth, the Catholics had defeated the oldest politician in Ireland. In the counties of Dublin and Westmeath, they had also been victorious; and in Armagh, which was the very cradle of Orangeism, they had completely triumphed. Mr. Brownlow-who had seen his error, and after voting against the Catholics, now voted for them-was opposed by the whole force of the Orange party-was carried triumphantly through by the Catholic freeholders. It was the fashion to abuse the Catholic priests for their interference; but were not the clergy of the Established Church as bad? He was sorry the bishops' bench was so empty, or he would say more on this subject. Did not our parsons brawl without mercy? The Catholic priests lived with their flock; they attended to their wants, administered to them in sickness, and consoled them on their death bed. The noble Viscount then read an election address, calling on the Catholics not to vote for any man who supported the Test; as by that means they virtually voted against themselves, and admitted that their own religion was idolatrous. Two years ago his majesty had been advised to recommend parliament to put down the Catholic association, and a law had been made for that purpose. But, had they succeeded? He would answer, No. The thing was impossible. The Association were the representatives of opinions, and it was impossible to put down opinions. If the Irish amounted to five millions, they constituted one fourth of our whole population: if they amounted to seven millions, they were one third; and it was impossible to change or subdue, the opinions of so large a body of men. The Irish House of Commons, in 1793, when ministers were frightened out of their senses, which some of them seemed not yet to have recovered, resolved to put an end to the penal code; they resolved, also, to put an end to the Catholics. They then passed the famous Convocation act, which only allowed the two Houses to meet by a special clause. But, had this put down the Catholics? No. They had gone on increasing-had acquired power and talents--and were now conscious of their strength. As to the complaints against the Catholic priests, he could not

see why they should not interfere at elections, when our own clergy disgraced themselves by raising the cry of "No Popery." That cry had, however, lost its power. The people of this country had more vital interests to attend to. They were groaning, in the twelfth year of peace, under a debt of 800,000,000l., and an expenditure of 50,000,000l. He trusted to God that the Catholic question would come up again this session from the Commons. If their lordships persisted in withholding their concurrence, they would render themselves the laughing-stock of the country. Even the Holy Alliance had not ventured to embark upon religious questions. There were in Europe one hundred millions of people, free from such exclusive laws. It should be recollected, too, that a communication with Ireland by the means of steam was now easy; and that France looked with delight upon the spirit of disunion that prevailed in that country. Three hundred and eighty men from Bedlam could not behave worse than their lordships would do, if they persisted in refusing the Catholic claims. He would ask, if it was likely there ever would be an end to the discussion of the question, but by granting the Catholics their rights. He was far on his journey to the other world; but woe to those who came after him, if this question should be left undecided.

Ordered to lie on the table.

HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday, February 8.

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION GENERAL PETITION OF THE CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.] Sir F. Burdett then rose to present the general petition of the Catholics of Ireland. This duty, he said, he was anxious to lose not a moment in performing, but he would not avail himself of that opportunity to make any preliminary remarks with reference to the general question. He would content himself, therefore, with shortly expressing his regret at the absence of the right hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs. Had that right hon. gentleman been present, he should have been happy to have consulted with him as to the future steps to be taken, in furtherance of the important measure prayed for by the petitioners. He was sorry, he repeated, for the right hon. gentleman's absence, both on account of its

cause, and for his own sake, as he was desirous, for his guidance in this great question, to have had some communication with that right hon. gentleman. It had become a matter of such pressing necessity-of such hourly growing importance-that no consideration should induce him to delay bringing it before the House at the earliest period that public convenience would permit. In saying this, however, he felt that he could not then undertake to name any precise day; though he would state, that the impression on his mind, as well as on the minds of the petitioners was, that no further delay should take place than was absolutely necessary. The Petition was then brought up and read; setting forth,

"That the following is the case of the Petitioners: they are deprived of all participation whatsoever in the framing or amending of the laws by which their properties are regulated, and on which the security of their lives and characters depend; they are deprived of almost all share in the administration of the laws by which their properties are regulated, and on which the security of their lives and characters depend: they are totally deprived of all participation in the highest and most important functions in the administration of those laws: they are excluded from the office of sheriff, an office the importance of which in rendering the administration of justice impartial or unjust, pure or corrupt, the cause of blessings or the source of misery, cannot be exaggerated, and can scarcely be adequately described; they are totally excluded from all municipal offices in all the corporate towns and cities in Ireland; they are stigmatized by being excluded from the councils of their sovereign; and they are degraded in their native land, not only by the practical exclusion from many, and in truth nearly all, other offices, but much more so by the haughty and insolent superiority which is naturally excited in the minds of the unjustly-favoured few over the equally unjustly-excluded many that the alarm created in the minds of the self-interested portion of the ascendancy in that country, lest their unjust monopoly should be destroyed by the humanity and wisdom of the legislature, has a natural tendency to produce, and is daily producing, an envenomed spirit of hostility, towards the Petitioners, threatening them even from the lips of those who ought to preach charity and

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