happy to learn that the hon. gentleman remained unaltered in his opinion. He was aware that by the employment of certain arts, and by certain means, almost the whale of the commercial interest had been taught to believe, that their prosperity was essentially connected with the present system of Bank issues. He knew that all this might be urged again, and that he might easily be described as a person who wished to destroy the credit of the country. He should, however, have no recourse to argument on the present question, because he believed that all argument upon it had been exhausted last session by several of his friends about him, and particularly by one hon. and learned gentleman whom he did not then see in his place (Mr. Horner), "Let the right hon. gentleman then," said Mr. Tierney, "take all the responsibility of this proceeding to himself, he is known to plume himself upon his stoutness, and his contempt of majorities or minorities, and he has this day given a pretty good earnest of it. I believe that no other minister would have dared to come down to this House and propose to make the promissory notes of a corporate commercial body a legal tender. Let the right hon. gentleman then continue to advise only with his faithful directors, I shall give him no further opposition, because I believe it to be utterly useless. I shall therefore conclude by declaring before God, that I speak not from the influence of party views when I lay my hand upon my heart, and express it as the settled conviction of my mind, that the measure now proposed will operate to blast for ever the credit of the Bank, and the financial security of the country, and I sit down so lemnly protesting against it accordingly." Lord Castlereagh said, in explanation, that there was a substantial distinction between compelling the acceptance of notes as a legal tender, and making them a legal tender into court. Mr. Whitbread ridiculed the distinction drawn by the noble lord, which, he contended, amounted to nothing. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had never supposed that the opposition made by the right hon. gentleman, or those who acted with him, was for the purpose of destroying the credit of the country, but he had conceived that the enlightened policy, as it was called, proposed by them would, if adopted, have proved ruinous and ineffectual. With respect to the charge of stoutness and disregard of being in a ma jority or a minority, made against him by the right hon. gentleman, he could assure him that he was far from feeling so indifferent as he was represented to be, on that point. In the measures he proposed, be was actuated by a strong conviction of their being such as were approved of by the great majority of the feeling and sense of the country, as well as of parliament; and the right hon. gentleman himself had been obliged to confess that he was aware the measure was so popular, while he protested against it, that he knew it was in vain for him to oppose it, though he attributed this popularity to the impositions practised on the country by artful and designing men. It was rather a singular way of supporting his argument, for the right hon. gentleman to confess that the entire mercantile body of the country was against him. He really conceived that they were as likely to form a true estimate of their own interests as the right hon. gentleman. He no doubt felt some pain in proposing this measure, but he must be a hardy politician, indeed, who in the present circumstances of the world would do any thing to endanger the credit of the Bank. As to the mode of endangering it, he knew that he differed widely from the right hon. gentleman. gentleman. He believed it to be perfeetly impossible, at present, whatever it might be at other periods, to fix any precise limit to the issues of the Bank, without producing serious occasional inconvenience to the public service. With respect to the disposition of the right hon. gentleman not to oppose this measure, he would be extremely happy to see this disposition exerted on other occasions, and extended to all questions relative to the policy of the present administration. Mr. Tierney said, that the right hon. gentleman was mistaken in supposing, that he would not oppose any measure brought forward by him; he would give no such pledge, as he never saw any gentleman whom he was so much inclined to oppose. The House then divided, when there appeared ...26 .......--47 For the Motion.....................73 Against it............. Majority. Leave was accordingly given to bring in the Bill. MOTION RESPECTING THE OUTSTANDING DEMANDS ON THE BANK.} Mr. Tierney immediately moved, "That a Secret Committee be appointed to examine | rested on a false foundation. He was fathe total amount of the outstanding devourable to all fair and reasonable enquiry, mands on the Bank of England, and like. but he must say, that it was not the object wise of the funds for discharging the same; of the Bank Directors to gain base lucre. and that they do also enquire into, and re- If they were misled, it was in their wish to port their opinion upon, the effects pro-assist the mercantile world. The measure duced by the Order in Council of the 27th now proposed might be necessary, though of February 1797." uncalled for by the Bank, and though it went beyond what had been enacted last year. Mr. Manning objected to the motion; and stated, that the Bill which had been brought in that night was not introduced Mr. Johnstone would vote for the motion, at the desire or request of the Bank of though he disclaimed all idea of imputation England, any more than the Bill of last upon the conduct of the Bank Directors, session, commonly called Lord Stanhope's who had shewn more moderation in the Bill. He spoke not in the character of a issue of paper-money than had been prac Bank Director, but from himself alone. In tised in any other country, when that exthat view, he could not see any necessity pedient had been adopted. He could not for the committee which was proposed. agree with his right hon. friend, that the If, indeed, the Bank Directors had desired Bank were masters of the ministers: but the present measure, he should think it a the contrary. It was the fault, not of the sufficient reason for the appointment of a Bank but of parliament, that things were committee. The actual amount of the in their present situation. If the Bank issae of Bank notes at present was were left to itself, he should have no fear 22,500,000l. which, of course, did not in- of the proposition of a legal tender. He clude Bank tokens. If any member wished the country to know what were the moved for any particular return, he would assets of the Bank independent of what second it. He was surprised that any consisted in government securities, which member should so far under-value the se- latter (in Exchequer Bills) amounted at this carities of the Bank: as every acre of moment to no less a sum than 7,500,000%. land in the country might be considered There was no doubt that the Bank could as forming a part of the securities for the discharge all its debts, as it related to itExchequer Bills. There was a debt self; but the connection with government owing from government to the Bank of was a different thing; and a time would 11,600,000l. and the two loans, which al- come when that would be a serious contogether amounted to near twenty mil-sideration. Every nation that had adopted lions. This was sufficient security. The a practice similar to the present, had run Exchequer Bills, as he had before observed, a career of bankruptcy; and the effect stood on the most solid ground. He thought must be serious, if men were compelled that parliament was right in calling, from to take a Bank note as a legal tender. time to time, for the amount of Bank The mischief had been done by parlianotes in circulation, and for other par- ment itself in compelling the Bank to adticulars, but he could see no reason for en- vance money when they were making extering into such a committee as the hon.traordinary issues of paper, which had member proposed. As to what had been said of the sordid and selfish views of the Bank, many matters of great public interest had been assisted by the liberality of the management of the Bank; and he challenged the right hon. gentleman to Mr. Marryatt thought the reason for opshow a single instance in which the pub-posing the motion extraordinary as urged lic had not received their portion of the profits said to have been made by that corporation. Mr. H. Thornton objected to the motion. The amount of Exchequer Bills and loans, &c. was generally known. If the question stood on the solvency of the Bank, then it ought to go to the committee that a report might be made, which would shew that an opinion adverse to the Bank's solvency raised the paper issue up to 22 millions. Government were the means of doing this, in consequence of the embarrassments which they had experienced from the deficiencies of the late Mr. Goldsmid. by the deputy governor of the Bank, (Mr. Manning), namely, that the Bank had not required it. Did any public body come to parliament and ask for such an enquiry into their concerns? Nothing was more unlikely. He was far from wishing to overthrow the credit of the Bank, and he thought its credit would be best supported by a fair enquiry. What was said of the Bank would be as applicable to govern doubts of the Bank's solvency, a good rea son would be furnished for appointing a committee; but he could not understand his right hon. friend (Mr. Tierney), when he called the Bank rich and prosperous, and afterwards said they might be in a state of bankruptcy. The truth was, that the Bank had it not in their power at the present moment to pay their debts in bullion, not having sufficient in their possession; and it was useless to endeavour to make them perform impossibilities. He believed that only a few bankers applied to the Bank for discounts, since it would rather affect their credit to do so, as it would affect that of an eminent merchant. As the motion might tend to excite distrust in the country with respect to the solvency of the Bank, he could not give it his support. Mr. Hibbert supported the motion. It would be a great evil to make a Bank-note a legal tender. He bore testimony to the honourable conduct of the Bank Directors, who, he believed, acted from the purest ideas of supporting commerce; but he thought that there would be great doubts in the public mind, unless parliament appointed a committee, as they had done in 1797. ment respecting sinecure places. In both instances the parties would be benefitted, and gain more credit by enquiry. The longer we went on in the present fatal paper system, the worse should we find our situation. The deputy governor of the Bank was last year against the legal tender; now he had a little changed his opinion. What it might be next year it was not possible to tell. One circumstance was important. A Bill lay on the table to make the embezzlement of property a higher crime, in consequence of the repeated failures of bankers, and other Occurrences. The misconduct of the bankers was owing in a great degree to the change of the practice at the Bank since the restrictions on their cash payments. After that restriction they offered their discounts in an unprecedented manner, and the bankers lost sight of all prudence and circumspection: the results of which had produced astonishing occurrences. The discount system had been carried to an extent almost incredible. Every failure of this sort had been owing to the conduct of the Bank of England; whereas, formerly, the bankruptcy of a banker was a very rare thing. That of Fordyce, many years back, was still talked of: such an event was formerly thought to be like a dreadful fire, or a plague: fit to be registered in a chronological table. But now, by the new plan, in the course of eleven years, there had been eleven bankers in the Gazette, out of the sixty in London. Their failures were likely to be as common as those of underwriters or any other traders whatever. Every one of these bankrupt bankers had kept a discount account with the Bank of England. He had not the list in his pocket, or heed themselves in such evident contradiccould read the proofs of his assertion to the House. None had failed who did not carry on such accounts. He viewed the Bank as useful and absolutely necessary, and on that account felt that any abuse of it ought to be guarded against. He knew indeed that the governor and directors were bound by an oath, but it was an oath which related to their duties only as a corporate body. Mr. Manning explained, and re-stated, that lord Stanhope's Bill was not desired by the Bank. Mr. Abercromby begged to call the attention of the House to the admission made by an hon. Bank Director (Mr. Baring) who acknowledged that perseverance in the present system would be attended with the ultimate ruin of the country, and yet contended, that not persevering in it would be equally destructive, because it would prevent us from vigorously prosecuting the war. Surely, when men of so much experience involv tions, it was reasonable that some enquiry should be made. There was no guarantee that the Bank of England should not either increase their debt or diminish the small quantity of bullion remaining in their hands. When to these circumstances was subjoined, the declaration of the deputy governor of the Bank of England, that every acre of land in the country was pledged for the payment of their notes, he thought there could be no hesitation in appointing the committee. Mr. Manning explained that he had said, Mr. Baring said, that if we went on that his own land as well as that of every year after year borrowing, while we dimi- other proprietor, was answerable in a due nished our means of repayment, the nation proportion for the payment of the Exchelike an individual, must come to a bank-quer Bills, which was a public debt of the ruptcy. If there were any reasonable nation. Mr. Baring said, the observation he had made was, that there was not a sufficien- | cy of bullion to enable the Bank to resume cash payments. Mr. Tierney, in reply, insisted that the issue of Bank notes had been greatly augmented since the year 1797, and as Exchequer Bills were secured by the notes, the landed property of the country was put in jeopardy at the will of the directors of the Bank of England. He begged to know if the other side of the House would consent to the production of an account shewing the quantity of Exchequer Bills purchased by the Bank of England from government in the public market, which had been hitherto with-held ? to 5th Jan. 1812, specifying the sum in each year. Mr. Manning thought this motion an unnecessary interference with the internal concerns of the Bank. Every one knew what those dividends had been. Mr. Barham, although he objected to the former motion, supported this, on the ground that all possible information on the state of the Bank should be afforded to the public. Mr. Grenfell stated, that the bonuses divided among the proprietors of Bank stock, since 1787, amounted to 32 per cent. on the capital. Mr. Baring thought the motion unnecessary. It would not give the House any information that was not already in their possession. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in answer to the declaration of an hon. and learned gentleman, that all the land of the Mr. Marryatt contended, that it was country might be confiscated to pay the never intended by the restrictions on the Exchequer Bills in the possession of the payment in specie, that the Bank should Bank, observed, that it might as well be make the large sum which they had made said, that a gentleman possessed of an es- out of the public distress. He attributed tate of 10,000l. a year, and having a mort- their unwillingness to show the state in gage of 10,000l. upon it, ran a risk of hav- which they were, not to any doubt of their ing all his land confiscated; for the Bank solvency, but to their being ashamed of could not possess more Exchequer Bills their profits. There was a provision in than were issued by government, viz. 43 the charter of the Bank of England which or 44 millions. On the subject of the mo- required that a meeting should be called tion, he thought that on the right hon. twice a year, at which meeting the profits gentleman's own showing it ought not to of the Company should be exhibited. This be acceded to; for the right hon. gentle- provision had hitherto not been complied man asserted that the Bank was an extra-with; no doubt lest the public should be vagantly overgrown and rich corporation. made acquainted with the enormous profits What necessity then for an enquiry into divided by the proprietors. its situation? As to the security for Bank notes, it was ample. Besides the assets in the hands of the Bank, it should be recollected, that Bank notes were receivable at the Exchequer, and that double the whole amount in circulation was received there yearly. Mr. Tierney, in explanation, said, that he had not represented the Bank as great and flourishing, and abounding in wealth. He allowed that they had made great profits; but his next motion would shew how he thought they had dissipated those profits. In consequence of the restrictions imposed on their payment in specie, the Bank had certainly made enormous profits; but these they had divided among themselves, and for aught he and the country knew, had left nothing for their creditors. The motion was put, and negatived without a division. Mr. Tierney then moved for an account of all sums divided by the Bank of England, on their capital, from 5th Jan. 1787, (VOL. XXII.) The motion was then negatived without a division. Plymouth BreakKWATER.] Mr. Lushington brought up the report of the Committee of Supply. On the motion for agreeing to the resolution for granting 80,000l. to commence a Breakwater in Plymouth Sound, Sir Home Popham said:-Mr. Speaker, I did not presume to trespass upon the patience of the House, when it was in a committee on the subject of Plymouth Breakwater. It was in deference, Sir, to the many senior and much more enlightened officers who are now in your presence; I avail myself, however, of this opportunity to record my sentiments on the subject. I am anxious to do so, as two reports have been industriously circu lated, which have no foundation; the first, that I intended to resist the grant. On the contrary, Sir, I think too much credit cannot be given to the First Lord of the Ad(C) professional men have a great difference of opinion; indeed, Sir, the very men whose reports are upon your table, differ as much as possible. The one says there is ample room within the Breakwater to moor fifty sail of the line, and that they can weigh at any time, and with all winds. Another says thirty-six sail of the line; and a third tells you he agrees in general to the The miralty for bringing forward this measure; and I think there is no officer in the British navy who will resist the application of money to give security to the roadsteads of this country. The second report was, that I had a plan of my own to propose. I really, Sir, have no such thing in contemplation: I was called upon by the government of 1805 to give an opinion on the practicability of establishing Break-reports, but he would rather sign for thirty waters, and the best mode of doing it. I sail. The First Lord of the Admiralty last did so, Sir, but it was on condition that night reduced his opinion to twenty: and my opinion should not be publicly acted I do say that if the work can be accomupon, without my going down to Ply-plished to that extent, it will be a wondermouth and examining the Sound tho- ful improvement, and do great honour to roughly to enable me to revise that opi- the present First Lord. I cannot, Sir, nion; but I recommended, in the strongest carry my views to this extent: I do not manner, that a committee of experienced mean to say that in the area described naval officers, with an engineer, should be within the Breakwater, thirty-six sail of sent there to examine the sets of tides, &c. the line may not be placed in fine weather and a variety of other technicalities with to a mathematical nicety. The reports which it is not necessary to trouble the tell us, that when a ship is taking up her House, as many of its members, both in lee anchor, her gun-room port will be and out of office, have read that report. eight fathom from the weather anchor of Quite satisfied, Sir, that a more able man the ship astern of her: I know that ships than Mr. Rennie cannot be found, I am may lie closer, but that must be in deep equally satisfied of the great advantage water, where there is no chance of ships which the service has derived from the striking upon each other's anchor. works which Mr. Bentham has continued first great feeling of responsibility will be at Portsmouth and, as civil engineer to running in, and anchoring twenty, or even the navy, I wonder he was not consulted. fifteen sail of the line, in a heavy gale I think the country would have been bet- from the south-south west, in the confined ter satisfied, if they could have seen at- space of one mile by a large quarter wide; tached to the reports, the name of the pre- and if I had the honour of such a charge, sent commander-in-chief at Plymouth, I should feel great uneasiness, and that I the appointment of whom has done so was running into this confined spot under much credit to the present First Lord of some degree of risk. I am not quite satisthe Admiralty. This gallant officer might fied about the effect of this Breakwater have called to his assistance his second in upon Cawsand bay, it may possibly injure command, another very meritorious officer, it; and Cawsand bay has proved a valuand the captain of the St. Salvador, captainable anchorage, under particular circumNash, than whom a more zealous officer, stances. The First Lord of the Admiralty or a better practical seaman, does not exist alluded to the state of the enemy's ships, in any service in the known world.-A that their activity in building was beyond report, backed by such officers, would conception, and although they had now have had the greatest weight in the coun- but one ship of the line in Brest water, try, and would have rendered it unneces- they might soon have thirty-six, the same sary to offer a word upon the subject. number which he proposed to place under When I mention committees, I am com- the Breakwater. If this thirty-six sail of pletely within the practice of the present the line should be caught within this board: for I had the honour of being at- Breakwater, in a strong wind from south tached to a committee, consisting of three to S. S. E. the enemy's fleet might sail flag officers and a captain, to examine a from Brest to Ireland, and reach it, before gun carriage; and if this committee, with (including the time for intelligence) our the exception of myself, had been ap-fleet could well get out of Plymouth pointed to examine Plymouth Sound, and Sound. The distance from Plymouth and report accordingly, the House would have Brest to Ireland, is nearly the same. had such an authority to have acted upon, such a situation of things, Sir, the enemy as would have made all discussion unne- would be invited to invade Ireland, for cessary. This, Sir, is a subject on which who is there who will venture to contra In |