Lord North

Mr. Saw

bridge.

Sir Edward
Aftley.

Mr. Sawbridge.

January 28. LORD NORTH moved, That three fhillings in the pound be the land-tax for 1774.

Mr. SAWBRIDGE rofe, not to oppofe the motion, but to lament the neceffity of continuing fuch a burthenfome tax after eleven years peace, and to condemn the present mode of levying taxes in general. He faid, though the land-tax was only three fhillings in the pound, every landed gentleman paid fourteen fhillings for every thing he eat, drank, or wore, and however paradoxical it might appear, if the land-tax was fix fhillings in the pound, it would raise a far greater fum than now it was at fourteen fhillings.

The motion met with no further oppofition.

February 11. A paper having appeared in the Public Advertiser of this day, charging the Speaker with injuftice and partiality upon a petition from a Mr. Tooke, against a Bill to enclofe a common in the county of Norfolk, the Speaker, when he took the chair this day, made a fhort apology for not coming sooner (it being after three o'clock) and faid, it was on account of a letter which had appeared in a publick paper addreffed to him; that he fhould with before he proceeded to bufinefs, the Honorable Members who were employed in the business of the petitions alluded to in the faid letter were prefent, that they might declare what they knew of his conduct in refpect to their petitions, and whether he merited the abuse that was thrown on him. Neither Mr. Sawbridge nor Oliver being prefent, the common business went on for fome time; but the Speaker, finding that neither Mr. Sawbridge nor Mr. Oliver were come, begged leave to go on with his vindication, faid, he was confcious there was not the leaft ground for the accufation against him; that, if he was guilty of fuch bafenefs as he was there charged with, he ought not only to be drove out of the chair, but never suffered to come within the doors of that Honorable Houfe again; that he now perceived an Honorable Gentleman coming in, who prefented one of the petitions [Mr. Sawbridge came in at that inftant], and he hoped he would inform the House what he knew of his conduct refpecting thefe petitions.

Sir EDWARD ASTLEY arofe, and went through the whole of the charges contained in the faid letter, as far as refpected him, and said, the charges of partiality were falfe.

Mr. SAWBRIDGE faid, that he was applied to, to prefent the petition but a few days ago; that what he had faid concerning it was according to the inftructions he received; but he knew of no partiality on the fide of Sir Fletcher.

The

The whole House seeming unanimous that the charge was groundlefs, Sir Fletcher arofe, and faid, he was thoroughly fatisfied the Houfe thought him innocent, and it was the height of his ambition to gain their efteem; that, if he had their good word, he cared not what any faction faid of him.

The order of the day was going to be read, when Mr. Herbert faid, he thought it would be an impeachment of the understanding of that Houfe, to fuffer fuch a thing as this to pafs with impunity, that he fhould therefore move, that the printer of the paper be brought before the Houfe.

Sir JOSEPH MAWBEY faid, he fhould diffent to fuch a Sir Jofeph motion, not through any disrespect to the Speaker, whom he Mawbey. thought perfectly innocent of the charge against him, but because it would be productive of much disturbance, and the fame tumults that a like order produced a few years paft would be all revived again; that for his part, he thought the letter was writ with a view to hurt the liberty of the prefs, and fet his Majesty again at variance with the city, more than any spleen to Sir Fletcher. That as Sir Fletcher feemed fatisfied with the favourable opinion of the Houfe, he thought the motion was needlefs; if Sir Fletcher was not fatisfied, there were our courts of law open to do him justice.

Mr. CHARLES FOX faid, he agreed with the worthy Mr. Charles Baronet (Sir Jofeph) that the letter was wrote with an intent Fox. to hurt the liberty of the prefs, for it was full of fuch flagrant falfehoods, that no man of fenfe, who read it, could put the least belief in it; that he likewife agreed it would be productive of bad effects; but, was any Member of that Houfe, much more the Speaker, to be libelled in fo grofs a manner, and be obliged to defcend to a law-fuit? No! he hoped they would always preferve their prerogative, and protect themfelves, for it would be an abfurdity to appeal to an inferior court for protection; he faid, would the Court of King's-Bench apply for protection to the Court of Common Pleas? That he obferved the Honorable Gentleman (Sir Jofeph) dreaded the confequences arifing from the motion; he faid, because they were fo favourable to the printers the last time, they imagined they had a right to libel any Member, and if the printers were fuffered to go on at this rate, they would next claim, as one of their privileges, the right of libelling whom they pleased; that we were now warm in the matter, and therefore it was the propereft time to difcufs and go through with it.

LORD NORTH faid, he was very well aware of the confe- Lord North quences that would arife from the motion, but the liberty of the prefs had got to fuch a height, that fome measure must be thought on; that he fuppofed the printer would not obey the

fummons;

Mr. Sawbridge.

Mr. Dowdefwell.

fummons; they must then fend their meffenger to take him into cuftody; fome city Aiderman would take up the meffenger, and the next step would be to take up the Alderman ;that the Alderman would not mind going to confinement for two or three months, as it would make him popular, and eftablifh him a patriot; but he hoped the conduct of the citizens to the laft Aldermen that were confined on account of the printers, would be a caution to any Alderman efpoufing their caufe for the future; that one indeed preferved their efteem, but the other (Mr. Oliver) whom he would be bold to fay was as honeft and able a magiftrate as any in the city, had been made the publick butt for ridicule, by the very citizens whom he had fuffered confinement for; that the courts of law had given it as their opinion, that the Speaker's order to take up a printer was legal and fufficient, and he hoped this matter would now be fettled, as it must be done, and the fooner the better, otherwife no perfon's character was fafe.

Mr. SAWBRIDGE faid, he did not agree with the Honorable Gentleman (Mr. Fox) that, as we were now warm in the affair, we ought to go through with it; he thought the most proper time to difcufs fuch business would be when we were cool; and if Sir Fletcher was not fatisfied (which till Mr. Herbert made his motion, he thought he was), he would be fure of redress at law, for we had lately had an instance of it. The First Lord of the Admiralty had obtained 2000l. damages from the printer of the London Evening Poft for a libel against him; that as to an Alderman withing to gain popularity by confinement, he could fay nothing to it; but concluded his fpeech with these words: If this bufinefs fhould come before me, I will difmifs the printer. I have no hopes of gaining popularity or gratuity by fo doing; I cannot bear confinement; I love liberty, and if I fhould be taken into cuftody, I fhall have this confolation, that I am fuffering for the good of my

country.

He was replied to by Mr. Jenkinfon and Sir Harbord Harbord, who fpoke very ably, but nearly the fame as Lord North

had done.

Mr. DOWDESWELL then faid, the noble Lord imagined the printer would not obey the Speaker's fummons; it was his opinion the printer would; and fuppofe he should inform them the author of the letter was Mr. Wilkes, what would they do to him? Why, nothing. That he had a great efteem for the liberty of the prefs, but he thought that liberty was greatly abufed, and hoped to fee fome able regulations. made in it, but not the liberty deftroyed; that he plainly forefaw, unless fome proper methods were taken to correct those

abufes,

Meredith.

abufes, the Legiflature would be obliged, in its own defence, to deftroy it entirely, let what would be the confequence. Sir WILLIAM MEREDITH faid, the author being given Sir Willian up, fhould not exculpate thofe dark and infamous incendiaries, printers, who kept their preffes open, and were glad of an opportunity to ftab any man's character, fo that it would make their paper fell; that he looked upon printers to be the most libellous and unworthy fet of men we had.

Mr. Herbert's motion was going to be read, when Mr. Mr. Dempe DEMPSTER arofe, and spoke nearly as follows: We are talk- fter. ing of preferving our power: let us confider of what our power confifts.---Is it not the power of the people? Can we destroy their liberty without our own? And I look upon this motion to be levelled entirely at the greateft of bleffings we enjoy, the liberty of the prefs; a liberty, Sir, that is the means of our publick money being expended fo well as it is; it keeps great men honeft through fear of being expofed; and thofe that opprefs the people now, would opprefs them ten times. more, was it not for the cenfure they are liable to through this channel. The liberty is abufed, I own; but I think, before fuch a motion was made, it would have been proper for the Houfe to come to a refolution of your innocence, and let it be recorded in the Journals. I have no doubt, Sir, of your innocence, and the letter alluded to being a libel; but I think we are too precipitate in our proceedings.

Mr. WARD faid, it was an idle notion the city of London Mr. Ward, entertained, that the Speaker cannot command them to appear. He afked what were their privileges more than the city of Worcester, or any other city? Had they not lately had an inftance of the Speaker fummoning people from Worcester, and had they not attended? He said, he fhould like to have this matter finally determined, whether they had an authority in the city, or not. If their power was to be restrained, he would fay to them what Oliver Cromwell faid to thofe that filled their feats in his time, You are no Parliament.'

A motion was then made, "That the letter in the Publick Advertiser of this date, addreffed to Sir Fletcher Norton, Knight, Speaker of this House, is a falfe, fcandalous, and malicious libel, contrary to all law or juftice, and an open violation of the privileges of this House."

The queftion was put, whether the above fhould pafs, and agreed to nem. con.

Mr. Herbert then moved "That the Printer of the Publick Advertiser be ordered to attend this Houfe on the 14th inftant." And he was ordered accordingly.

VOL. VIL

February

Mr. Sawbridge.

February 14. The printer attended according toorder, and was called in; and being asked to make his defence, he said, "I received the letter from Mr. Horne. I was the more induced to believe the contents true, because I saw the copies of two petitions, the one figned Thomas De Grey, Efq. the other William Tooke, Efq. I did not read the former part of the letter, which neglect will, I hope, be imputed to that hurry which the nature of my business fubjects me to."

The Clerk having taken down this part of his exculpatory addrefs, the Speaker afked, if that was all he had to fay in his defence? He replied, "During the course of twenty years in which I have been in business, I never before incurred the difpleasure of this Houfe. I have voluntarily obeyed the fummons, and throw myself upon the mercy of the House."

He was then interrogated by a Member, whether he knew Mr. Horne's chriftian name? He answered, " John." Whether Mr. Horne was a clergyman? His reply was, "He is deemed fo." He was queftioned as to the place of Mr. Horne's refidence, and the profeffion he followed? He answered, after fome hesitation, "That Mr. Horne lived, he believed, at Brentford, and officiated as curate there."

He was then ordered to withdraw, and the debate was opened by Mr. Herbert, who, after expatiating upon the enormity of the crime, the atrociousness of the libel, and the neceffity of maintaining the privileges of the Houfe inviolate, moved, "That H. S. Woodfall, for having printed a falfe, fcandalous, and feditious libel, fhould be committed to the custody of the Serjeant at Arms."

On the other fide it was afked, why they would fend the printer into confinement? Had he not obeyed their fummons, and given up the author, which was as much as a man could do? A gentleman declared himself an entire stranger to the printer, and faid, " he never wrote a paragraph in his life, but was forry to fay, there were many Members in that House, who, at times, wrote as fcurrilous libels in the públick prints, as the one in queftion, and the most inflammatory paragraphs, and yet fome of thofe perfons would poffibly now declaim against it. Did they mean to engrofs all the libelling, lying, and flandering to themfelves? If they punished this man, they would never find another printer obey their fummons, for the utmost they could do would be to confine him, if he refused to obey their orders; that he thought by encouraging the printer, they might discover the authors, and thereby punish those who were guilty.

Mr. SAWBRIDGE faid, that the Houfe was now attempting to ufurp an authority, which, in his opinion, they had no right

to