Mr. Wedderburne. Mr. Byng Mr. Hey and Mr. Maferes, informed the House, that they by no means thought themfelves capable of learning the French law fufficiently to adminifter it with juftice; and if fuch learned gentlemen as them had not abilities fufficient to understand it, fure he was, that no perfon the Minifter could produce was capable of undertaking the task, fo as to do justice to the people and honor to himfelf; he faid, the noble Lord had been repeatedly called upon to declare the author of the Bill; let the author now ftand forth and clear himfelf; but he would be bold to fay, no man would dare to own a Bill which was meant to establish Popery. The noble Lord had faid, the Canadians had not defired to have a jury; could the noble Lord fay the Canadians had defired not to have a jury? He then entered very fully into the nature of juries; faid they were fit in all cafes; that he had known many inftances where juries had found for the Crown, and that he could wish to fee juries eftablished throughout the world, as they were a check upon the evil judges, and confequently if they were not fo good judges of law, they were judges of fact; he faid, as to the people of Canada being negligent of attending to ferve on juries, it was the cafe here; there was scarce a term paffed but jurymen were fined for non-attendance. The SOLICITOR GENERAL faid, he could not agree with the Learned Serjeant, that the fupporters of the Bill deferved the appellation of traitors to their country; that he had no objection to a jury hereafter being established there, but let it be left in the power of the Crown, and if they faw it was neceffary, they could at any time adopt it; but this was not the time, when the people were fo much enraged against the proceedings of juries in that country; that as the jury which Mr. Maferes had formed for that country, in the pamphlet he had published, he by no means thought it like an English jury, for it was to be formed of an odd number of people, thirteen, fifteen, or feventeen, and a majority of thofe people to be decifive, and the jurymen to have 5 s. per day allowed them for their attendance. He faid he never would allow that the Canadians were fit perfons to ferve upon a jury, they understood nothing of its form, and therefore were not judges enough how to act upon it; that as to cafes of revenue, we had had two inftances of their deciding different to an English jury; that a jury in England had found for the Crown, they in Canada had twice, on the fame trial, found for the defendant; and the witness at the Bar, Mr. Hey, had informed the House that he had often been put to trouble, becaufe he never could get the Canadians to give a special verdict. Mr. BYNG-The noble Lord had given them fuch of the evidence evidence as he thought proper, and mentioned the equality of the numbers of the two forts of fubjects; that as to the numbers, it was a matter of indifference to him whether they were 360 or 360,000, they had equally a claim to compaffion; that he thought it proper, that wherever an English colony was fettled, English laws ought to be established; that he did not approve of the claufe now offered, because he thought it not fufficient, yet he would gladly accept of it as part of a good thing, and he made no doubt but the Canadians would, when they became ufed to the nature of it, love it, and with to have it in its full extent; that General Carleton had informed them that the Canadians were a docile people; had we any occafion to go to Canada to look for docile creatures? No! there was a fufficient number always to be feen on the oppofite fide of the House, docile enough to do any thing the noble Lord, their leader, fhould direct them to do. Governor Johnstone spoke highly in favour of juries, and recommended the claufe. RIGHT HON. T. TOWNSHEND spoke against the whole Mr.T. of the Bill, and much in praife of juries; and recommended Townshend the claufe offered in a ftrenuous manner, fetting forth, that the English residents there had not gone to that colony, had they not been invited by his Majefty's royal proclamation; but those who advised him to break his promife, would advise him to do any thing that was bad. Mr. BURKE, in a very long speech, the first part of which was a keen, pointed vein of humour against the Minifterial Mr. Burke gentry, who just then came into the Houfe in great numbers, faid, he fhould not then have arofe, only he thought he now feized a happy moment when he fhould carry his point, for the Houfe had filled, all of a fudden, with people who had not heard any thing that had been faid against the Bill, no not even from its being first agitated in the House; that they had now come with good English dinners in their bellies, which would, he trufted, make them good-humoured, and by being thus full of English meat, would undoubtedly be for English laws; that he should have been afraid to attack such a body of power and wifdom as the other fide of the House contained, had he not fortunately obferved, that the noble Lord, and his two great oracles of wiftdom and order, had all differed in their opinions; that finding them at variance, he thought the moment would be fortunate to his caufe; the one was for a jury, only now was not the proper time; the other against any jury at all; and a third that it could not be inferted in the Bill, He divided the people concerned in the Bill under three heads: firft, the English merchants; fecond, the English fubjects; and thirdly, the Canadians; he faid they all deferved fupport; and, though the noble Lord, and his fupporters, had fo induftriously always made use of the number 360 as fuitable to their caufe, let them only recollect what all the evidence at the Bar agreed in, which was, that the English fubjects were poffeffed of upwards of two-thirds of the whole trade; did the noble Lord think then that they were a body of people to be minded? That as to their numbers being fmail, the noble Lord might recollect that there was an old vulgar faying, "that one Englishman was always worth two Frenchmen," that, in this cafe, he thought them preferable to fifty Frenchmen; that he would be willing to give a Canadian every indulgence in his power, but not grant that indulgence at the expence of the English; that if thefe Nobleffe were the only perfons (as they appeared to be by the evidences at the Bar) that were against the English laws, he would facrifice them, and all the Nobleffe of England and other countries, but he would make the majority of the people happy. But the reason the Nobleffe did not like the English laws, was on account of the manner in which they had been reprefented to them; namely, that they were a string of religious and civil perfecutions, which would entirely hinder them either from exercifing their own religion, or from having any share in the government of their own country; that, remove those prejudices which the Nobleffe had imbibed from mifreprefentations, and he would be bound to fay that they would not only admire our laws, but petition to have them; that, as to the Nobleffe hating juries, because it trufted their property to their inferiors, it was a principal reafon why he would give the Canadians a jury, in order to protect their property from the arbitrary proceedings of the Nobleffe, who, in all countries, always wifhed to have the poor under their controul; that as to the English laws not being efteemed by the French, he could produce mountains of books, wrote by Frenchmen, on the justnefs and excellency of our laws, where they approved of the trial by jury as one of the greatest excellencies our Constitution produced; that the noble Lord had invited him, and others, to come and offer their opinions, fetting forth, that the Bill was imperfect, and he wished to alter it, yet he had not attended to what had been offered; that, in the Committee, when he meant to propofe a claufe, the noble Lord told him he might do it with propriety on the Report, and that there would be no other obftacle in his way, than that HE would oppofe it; he faid he was greatly obliged to the noble Lord for his candour, for it had fpared him much trouble, having intended to offer feveral claufes, which he fhould, with great justice, justice, be called obftinate, was he now to attempt it, when he knew there was such a glorious triumvirate of power and wifdom formed against him; that he fincerely believed the French were in awe of us, yet he could not help thinking but that they must be astonished, that a people who had fuch powerful arms fhould have fuch weak heads. He ftrongly recommended the ftate of the merchants as an object of the noble Lord's attention, fetting forth, that their property was always in a fluctuating ftate, and that they run great rifks of their whole fortune, to benefit Government as well as themfelves. On the question being put, it paffed in the negative; 83 to 4. Right Hon. T. Townshend propofed a claufe to make it a temporary Bill, and to limit its duration to feven years. This produced a fhort debate, but it paffed in the negative without a divifion. Mr. Dempfter propofed a claufe for giving notice of all laws to be paffed, which likewife paffed in the negative. Mr. C. Fox propofed a claufe to fecure to the religious orders. their rights and properties, as a corporate body claiming under the capitulation; which fhared the fame fate with the preceding. Lastly, when all the claufes were rejected or agreed to, and the SPEAKER was reading over the Bill, Mr. Dempfter moved, that a claufe fhould be inferted that the Canadians fhould, on claiming it, have a right to the benefit of the Habeas Corpus Act. A divifion was the confequence of this motion; when the numbers were 76 Noes, 21 Ayes. June 13. Mr. Cooper moved that the Quebec Bill do pass. Mr. C. Fox oppofed it upon the ground of its being a Moneybill. The Houfe divided, Ayes 56, Noes 20. No other publick bufinefs. The Bill went back to the Lords, and the Commons adjourned. On the 22d of June the King put an end to the feffion with a Speech, which the Reader will find at the end of the Lords Debates. And on the 30th of September the Parliament was diffolved. STATE STATE of the different PARLIAMENTS fince the Reign of HENRY VII. with the Period of their respective Diffolutions. No. of Names of the Monarchs. When met. When diffolved. Exifted. Y. M. D. 23 Feb. 1509 23 Mar. 1587 5 35 2 2 3 29 5 I 4 22 18 9 28 7 ΙΟ 21 I 9 |