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unless I had come to Parliament for THAT, and THAT, then the main object, what the Honorable Gentleman thinks I ought to have come to Parliament for, and without THAT, he allows I fhould do nothing; but however he may wifh me to have done THIS, and THIS, and THIS of my own head as a Minister, the Honorable Gentleman (fond as he is, and always has been of PREROGATIVE) would have difagreed to my proceeding, and objected against it.

The question was then put, and the Bill paffed with but very few negatives.

March 28. The order of the day being read for the House to go into a Committee for a further confideration of his Majefty's meffage, and the American papers, the House immediately refolved itself into a Committee, Sir Charles Whitworth in the chair.

LORD NORTH arofe and faid, He meant now to open the plan of the Bill which he proposed to bring in; and as it might very well be understood by gentlemen in that House, from the papers that then lay before them, that an executive power was wanting in that country, and that it was highly neceflary to strengthen the magiftracy of it; that the force of the civil power confifted in the poffe comitatus; and when it is confidered, fays his Lordship, that the poffe are the very people who have committed all thefe riots, little obedience to the prefervation of the peace is to be expected from them. There appears to be a total defect in the conftitutional power throughout. If the democratic part fhews that contempt of obedience to the laws, how is the Governor to execute any authority vested in him? If he wants any magiftrate to act, whom he knows will be willing to execute the laws, he has not the power of appointing one, nor of the removing one that will not act; the Council have alone that power, whofe dependence is on the democratick part of the constitution. It appears that the civil magiftrate has been, for a feries of years, uniformly inactive; there is fomething radically wrong in that conftitution, in which no magiftrate, for fuch a number of years, has ever done his duty in fuch a manner as to force obedience to the laws. If the Governor issued a proclamation, there was hardly found a magiftrate to obey it; the Governor, of his own authority, can do nothing; he cannot act, or give out any order, without feven of the Council confenting; the authority of that Government is in fo forlorn a fituation, that no Governor can act; and, where there is fuch a want of civil authority, can it be fuppofed that the military, be they ever fo numerous, can be of the leaft fervice? For I fhall always confider

confider that a military power, acting under the authority and controul of a civil magiftrate, is part of the conftitution; but the military alone ought not, and cannot act without the controul of the civil magiftrate. How was it poffible for the military to maintain good government when they were not called upon by the civil authority? I propofe, in this Bill, fays his Lordship, to take the executive power from the hands of the democratic part of Government; I would propofe, that the Governor fhould act as a Juftice of Peace, and that he fhould have the power to appoint the officers throughout the whole civil authority, fuch as the Sheriffs, Provoft, Marshal, &c. (the Chief Juftice and Judges of the Supreme Court excepted). I would have them only removable by his Majefty, under his fign manuál, and upon good reprefentations made here. Every Gentleman will naturally fee the impropriety of fuch irregular affemblies, or town-meetings, which are now held in Bofton; I would have them brought under fome regulation, and would not fuffer them to be held without the confent of the Governor, unlefs upon the annual election of certain of ficers, which it is their province to chufe. Their juries are improperly chofe; I think a degree of regulation highly neceffary; I am always ready and open to hear thofe matters difcuffed, and inclined to alter my opinion, when I hear better reafons for adopting any other mode of putting the civil magiftracy of that country upon a good footing; but until the executive power is free, it cannot act; our regulations here are of no import, if you have nobody in that country to give them force. Some immediate, as well as permanent remedy, must be adopted. I therefore propofe the present Bill, which I apprehend will effectually purge that conftitution of all its crudities, and give a degree of ftrength and spirit to the civil magiftracy, and to the executive power. I therefore move you, Sir, that leave be given to bring in a Bill for the better regulating the government of the province of Maffachufets Bay. I propofe that this Bill fhall be brought in, and lie upon the table, for the infpection of the Houfe and Gentlemen who wish to make the propriety of fuch a Bill the measure of their conduct.

Mr. BYNG faid, That he could not be at all furprifed at Mr. Byng, hearing that the Governor of Bofton had no power, when he had not a fingle place in his gift. It was now become a fashion, he faid, to give away thofe places of emolument to men of this country, with reverfions to one, two, or three fons; to men who had never been of the leaft publick service to this country in his apprehenfions (meaning Mr. Bradshaw). Whilft places continue to be given away to men of this counVOL. VII.

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Mr. S. Fox.

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try, the emoluments of which arife from the labour and sweat of an American brow, it will undoubtedly, and very properly, totally annihilate the power of any fupreme officer in that country. Men look up to their fuperiors, and obey their directions according to the emoluments received from them; and when once there is no dependence in it, there will be no obedience.

SIR FLETCHER NORTON faid, he only got up to know, whether there was to be an Affembly left to the Americans, or not? for he was not able to fay, from what he had heard from the noble Lord, whether the Affembly was to be annihilated or not.

LORD NORTH arofe to affure the Right Honorable Member, that there would be nothing in this Bill that affected either the Affembly or the Council in their legislative power.

Mr. STEPHEN FOX faid, Can there be any thing fo neceffary to alter as that government which can neither govern nor manage itself? The people of Boston have behaved in a moft outrageous manner, militating against every principle of law and justice, combating against its own constitutional power, and totally fubverting every idea of order and regularity. Would you let thefe men go on in that chaos of disturbance? Would you with them to proceed fo precipitately to their ruin and deftruction, without once lending the aid of your deliberations to rescue them from the self-conceived and falfe opinions which they have imbibed. I hope, Sir, this Houfe will lend its advice, and endeavour to fave thefe hot-headed Americans, not by violent meafures, but by firm and manly proccedings.

LORD G. GERMAINE.---It may not be improper, Sir, I Germain. hope, to throw out a little upon this occafion, and to aík for further information, to know whether this is to be the extent of the propofition with regard to the falutary measures that are to be made and taken in this Committee, during this whole feffions; if fo, Sir, I fhould be glad to give my poor opinion, and add my mite of prefervation to that country. I could have wifhed that the noble Lord, when he was forming this fcheme of falvation to this country, would have, at leaft, confidered that there were other parts of the internal government neceffary to be put under fome regulation. I mean particularly the internal government of the province of Maffachufets Bay. I wish to fee the Council of that country on the fame footing, and on the fame ftate as other Colonies. There is a degree of abfurdity, at present, in the election of the Council. I cannot, Sir, difagree with the noble Lord, nor can I think he will do a better thing, than to put an end

to their town meetings. I would not have men of a mercantile caft every day collecting themfelves together, and debating about political matters; I would have them follow their Occupations as merchants, and not confider themselves as minifters of that country. I would alfo wifh, that all corporate powers might be given to certain people in every town, in the fame manner that corporations are formed here; I fhould then expect to fee fome fubordination, fome authority and order. I don't know by what power thofe are to be formed, but I wish that they may be formed by fome. Again, Sir, I think that the method of grand juries ought to be much attended to: they are now chofen for life, and have a yearly falary, and thefe are the men to whom your life and property is entrusted. Your people know to whom to make application, when law and justice are wished to be fubverted by favour and affection. Your petty juries are elected annually, fo many perfons in each town; to these men offenders know how to apply; and when any riot happens between the military power and the people of the town, the jury, being taken principally out of that town, the power of the life and death of the offender islodged in thofe who are offended. Thefe juries, I think, require great regulation: they are totally different from ours, and, in my idea, carry with them not only the highest degree of abfurdity, but are fubject to be led afide to commit the highest and most palpable enormities against justice and the laws of the land. I would not wish to protract the noble Lord's Bill, either by lengthening it out to a degree which he does not with it to go, nor to oppofe the measures which he has already adopted. I would wish to bring the conftitution of America as near and fimilar to our own as is poffible. I would wish to see the Council of that country fimilar to a House of Lords in this. I would with to fee chancery fuits determined by a court of chancery, and not by the Affembly of that province. At prefent, their Affembly is a downright clog upon all the proceedings of the Governor, and the Council are continually thwarting and oppofing any propofition he may make for the fecurity and welfare of that government. You have, Sir, no Government, no Governor, the whole are the proceedings of a tumultuous and riotous rabble, who ought, if they had the leaft prudence, to follow their mercantile employment, and not trouble themfelves with politicks and government, which they do not understand. We are told by fome Gentlemen, oh! do not break the charter; do not take away their rights that are granted to them by the predeceffors of the Crown; whoever, Sir, wishes to preferve fuch charters, without a due correction and regulation; whoever, Sir,

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wishes for fuch fubjects, I wish them no worse than to govern them. Put this people, Sir, upon a free footing of government; do not let us be every day afferting our rights by words, and they denying our authority, and preventing the execution of our laws. Let us, Sir, perfevere in refining that government which cannot fupport itfelf, and proceed on in the manner we have begun, and I make no doubt but, by a manly and steady perfeverance, things may be restored from a ftate of anarchy and confufion, to peace, quietude, and a due obedience to the laws of this country.

LORD NORTH.---I thank the noble Lord for every propofition he has held out, they are worthy of a great mind, and fuch as ought to be adopted; and indeed I cannot fay, that at present there is any objection to what is proposed being regulated at fome future period; if any thing can tend to the relief of the prefent diftreffes in America, it is the unanimity of this Houfe, and of men of fuch abilities as the noble Lord, in the projection of meafures neceffary to be taken. Every propofition the noble Lord has mentioned coincides with my mind; I fee the propriety of them, and I would with to adopt them. It is not my propofition to close this Committee before other measures may be offered, which, for aught any thing I know, may have a degree of preference to thofe I have this day propofed. I, for my part, Sir, fhall think of the propofitions made, and receive them to be canvaffed by greater wifdom and abilities than mine. I am clear, with the noble Lord, that the conftitution of this charter ought not to prevent Parliament from interfering to regulate thofe matters in America, which the indigefted measures of their charter have, perhaps, precipitately been, in fome degree, a means of preventing the peace and quietnefs of that country from being restored.

Mr. Phipps got up, but the House being noify, he was not much attended to.

Mr. Pownall alfo fpoke, and ufed much the fame kind of arguments he had done in the former debates; giving a judicious account of the government of America; and concluded with giving to the Americans the character of a confcientious, good, religious, peaceable fet of people, and that there was not in all his Majefty's dominions a more refpectable set of perfons existing.

Leave was then given to bring in the Bill for the better regulating the government of the province of Maffachufets Bay, without further oppofition.

March