Is that landed property, or chattel property?-Partly landed and partly chattel; I speak of that particular part of the country where I reside.

You have stated, that a feeling of degradation on the part of the Catholics, and of insolence on the part of the Protestants, is very much diminished where the number of Roman Catholics greatly preponderate?—Yes; the insolence on the part of the Protestant is lessened.

Does the number of Catholics preponderate in your neighbourhood? They are in the proportion of one to fifteen.

Then how do you account for the operation of this feeling of degradation on the one side, and insolence on the other, since, according to your view, the number of Roman Catholics does preponderate? The insolence is not manifested by the one party, because it would lead to personal exasperation, which would perhaps end unfavourably; but though this feeling does not manifest itself on every occasion, yet it is known to exist.

Then the Protestants in your neighbourhood do not show this insolence?-No, they do not, as far as I know; I have heard a Catholic peasant talk, how he was told in joke, by his Protestant neighbour. that they should all become Protestants in a short time, and that they should all be soon one way.

Then the Catholics in your neighbourhood do feel that degradation to which you have alluded?-They do.

Notwithstanding their preponderance in number?—I said that feeling was diminished by a preponderance of number.

You have told us of the joke of the Protestant peasant-has not the Roman Catholic occasionally his jest in return?—I believe they may have their jests, but these jests are accompanied with a little acrimony, between joke and earnest; a perpetual bad feeling exists among them, and it is only the more genial flow of natural good feeling, that counteracts, in a greater or less degree, these divisions.

And those are counteracted where the number of Roman Catholics predominates over the number of Protestants ?--They are counteracted in some measure.

You have stated, that if the measures which have been submitted to Parliament for removing those disabilities were adopted, you apprehend, that within twenty years, the feeling of animosity would be altogether extinct?-Yes.

You stated, that the dissatisfaction of Roman Catholics arises, not from a positive sense of injury, but from the circumstance that the higher order of the Roman Catholics do not stand upon an equal footing with the higher order of Protestants?—I said, that in their relative situations the Catholic

peasant did not feel himself upon an equality with the Protestant peasant; that in their several gradations they do not feel themselves upon the same level.

You stated the reason to be, that if they entered into the professions they could not attain the same eminence as the Protestants?-Yes; these are some of the reasons.

So long as there was any obstacle to their attaining the same eminence as the Protestants, do you think the dissatisfaction would continue?-As long as those situations are not attainable, to which the generality of the people, whether Protestants or Catholics, might aspire, there would be some degree of it; but in proportion as you diminish the number of restrictions in the penal code, you diminish the sense of injury.

You stated, as an instance, that a young Roman Catholic going to the bar, could not hope to attain the highest situation?-I wish to call the attention of the Committee to what appears to me to be the contrast between the feeling of the Catholic peasant and the Protestant peasant, who have sons on their outset in life; the Protestant feels that his son may rise to the highest degree that his abilities may enable him to do; under the existing laws, there is no impediment to his promotion, no limit where he must stop short; whilst the Catholic feels he may go to a certain length, and must stop there.

So long as there is any limit, you conceive the dissatisfaction will continue ?-I conceive there must be dissatisfaction, because the parent has an interest in the well-being of his offspring, and he feels for generations to come as much he does for the present generation.

Do you think the people sympathize more with the Roman Catholic gentry, or with the Roman Catholic priests?—I think they sympathize more with the priests.

Do you not apprehend then, that any thing that puts the Roman Catholic priesthood in a situation of degradation as compared with another priesthood, would produce the same feeling of dissatisfaction in the peasantry that you attribute to the comparative difference in the situation of the gentry?— No; the Roman Catholic gentry, and even the peasantry, are upon principle hostile to the mixing of temporal wealth with the condition of their clergy. They think their clergy will be more upright and zealous when they are moderately supplied with the means of support, than when they are surrounded with riches and honours. They would not like to see their priests too rich; the people would say, they would become like other priests.

Their respect for the priest is in proportion to his poverty?

-In proportion to his conduct; but they think his conduct will be improved by removing from him the ordinary temptations that produce misconduct and corruption in the human mind, which consist in the acquisition of inordinate wealth.

You believe the Roman Catholic peasantry reason in that way?—I know they do; they are jealous when they see their priests rich.

How do you account then for their remembering acutely the degraded state in which their priests were in former times? Because then their priests were persecuted; they were hunted from bog to bog, and from hedge to hedge. They were obliged to celebrate the offices of religion in bogs and mountains.

You say they are very anxious to read the newspapers in that neighbourhood?-They are.

What are the newspapers principally circulated in your parish? The Southern Reporter and the Cork Chronicle, when they can come at them; but they cannot often come at them.

You have mentioned that the Roman Catholic peasant feels, that if he had a son whose talent led him to one of the learned professions, to the bar for instance, that he feels disappointed at his being liable to be stopped at a certain point; do you mean to say by that, that if any certain point were reserved, they would not have a feeling of resentment about it. Suppose withholding the great seal, the chancellorship was thought necessary?-That, I conceive, to be an extreme case. I do not think, that if they got every thing else, that would be reasonably required; I do not conceive that they would be discontented at being excluded from the great seal, if it were deemed necessary to withhold it. In fact they do not reason so acutely upon those points; and if the number of cases in which they are degraded, as compared with their Protestant fellow subjects, were diminished, their dissatisfaction would be likewise diminished.

Supposing the legislature of the country were disposed to comply with the Catholic claims, but that a certain number of the great offices of the state were reserved; do you think that would excite dissatisfaction ?—I am convinced it would not.

You stated, that the impression upon your mind was, that the law was not equally administered to Catholic and Protestant?—I did not say that was the impression upon my mind in all cases; I said that was the impression upon the minds of the people.

You said that you could not recollect particular instances,

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but there were instances?-There certainly were instances where I had reason to think so, though I am not sufficiently acquainted with the facts; perhaps I have been myself deuded by the prejudice and distrust excited by the law.

In fact, do you conceive the case to be so ?-I do, in many instances.

Then the impression upon your mind is, that the law is not equally administered to Protestant and Catholic?-It is indeed.

By the magistrates in the country?—I do not mean to say that there are not a great proportion of the magistrates that do act fairly: but I mean to say, that prejudices do exist upon the minds of the magistrates, and misconceptions upon the minds of the people; they may both be excited by the distinctions created by the laws.

Do you mean to apply that to the immediate neighbourhood where you now reside, or generally to the county?—I apply it generally to the county. I would wish to say a word or two in explanation of a question put on a former day, regarding the state of Castletownroche; I do not recollect distinctly the words of the question that was put. I was asked whether the same causes of disturbance regarding the administration of justice existed in Castletownroche. I said, that I did not, in Castletownroche, recollect any cause of complaint. I repeat the same answer still, as far as regards that part under my immediate cognizance; but I have heard of complaints existing in that part of the county, of magistrates being there who were unfit for their office; in the neighbourhood of Glanworth and Doneraile, and extending north-west towards Newmarket.

Among those magistrates who have not administered justice as they ought to have done, were there any Catholics?In my own part of the county they were Catholics; but the magistrates I have in my eye in that part of the county were not Catholics.

Do the peasantry generally hold the Roman Catholic gentlemen in more estimation than the Protestant gentlemen ?— I do not think that they do; they have naturally more confidence in the Catholic than in the Protestant; but they often find as they think, that the Catholics are too anxious to cultivate the favour of the Protestant gentlemen, and to retain their good will, will often join the ascendency party against themselves.

Has it come to your knowledge that the farmers prefer holding their farms from Catholics to holding from Protestants? They make no distinctions in that point, provided

they are well treated; but they have equal cause to complain both of the one and the other; and they have equal causes of satisfaction with respect to them both, that is, they find good Catholic landlords and bad Catholic landlords, and good Protestant landlords and bad Protestant landlords.

You are very well acquainted with the description of persons who form usually the county of Cork grand juries; do not you conceive that a fair proportion of Catholic gentlemen are usually invited upon the county grand jury?—The county of Cork is very large, and my knowledge of it is rather limited; I have known of two or three Roman Catholics being occasionally summoned upon the grand jury; and I have known instances where they were altogether excluded. I conceive that many Roman Catholics possessing a greater property than some of the Protestants summoned on the grand jury were excluded. The greatest number of Catholics summoned at any one time never has, I believe, exceeded two or three.

How many Roman Catholic gentlemen of sufficient property to serve on grand juries do you conceive there are in the county of Cork?—I am not prepared to answer that question; but it is the general impression upon my mind that there are a good many.

When those gentlemen were summoned upon the grand jury, were there not a considerable number of Protestants of considerable property not summoned to attend the_grandjury? I believe there were a great number of Protestants possessing more property than the two Catholics, who were not summoned, and more than it would be neces sary to summon; but then I say there were many of less property than the Catholics upon the grand jury, and Protestants also of greater property excluded.

Have you ever heard of the high sheriff being obliged to call in gentlemen to serve on grand juries, two or three perhaps every morning, in consequence of disappointments from gentlemen who were put on it ?-I am not at all conversant with the subject; I am so far removed from those who manage these things.

Have you not heard in the county of Cork, the practice is to invite gentlemen to attend the grand jury; and that they frequently decline it ?—I may have heard it.

May it not have been the case with regard to Roman Catholic gentlemen ?-I know there were several Catholics of much more property than some Protestants upon the jury excluded from it.

Can you mention the names of the Catholic gentlemen who are qualified to sit upon grand juries in your opinion ?—I