correct, or at least tend to correct the mischiefs of the others; so that I take the petty sessions to be, notwithstanding some abuses, a very great improvement.

Do you think there has been any one instance of misconduct so gross as that to which you have alluded in a former answer, on the part of single magistrates, since the petty sessions have been introduced? I do not; I think in that respect the petty sessions are decidedly a great improvement.

Have they tended to give the population a more favourable opinion of the administration of the law?-They have; subject always to a qualification, that the system has so worked in Ireland, that the people conceive that almost every thing done is done as a matter of favour and not of right; and as they before solicited individual magistrates, and I believe used more powerful means than mere solicitation, they now endeavour to solicit the magistrates who are to hold the petty sessions; a kind of canvass takes place; for the impression upon the Irish peasant is, that unless he has what they call interest, he has no chance of success before any tribunal. The superior tribunals are not open at all to the Irish peasant; he cannot have money enough to go to law: the attorney may speculate in taking up his individual case, but a peasant himself cannot bring the law into action on his behalf at all, that is quite out of the question.

Those are all cases arising out of the state of society, both as to the rich and the poor, and not at all connected with religious differences?—I should not go to that extent; I may be mistaken, but I think the system itself is so interwoven with religious distinctions, and its present state so much, if not created, amalgamated with it, that it would be impossible for me to say that they are unconnected; they do not in very many individual instances operate as between Catholic and Protestant immediately, but they do in some, and part of the origin of the system is, in my opinion, the religious distinction.

Have not many magistrates been lately dismissed in consequence of their misconduct?-There has been lately what is called a revision of the magistracy. Many bad magistrates have been certainly excluded. In particular counties the exclusion ran more according to religion than misconduct; and in the county of Cork, almost every Catholic magistrate was struck out. I think, but I may be mistaken as to number, eighteen out of twenty-one.

Have not a great number been restored?-A great number have been restored; a great majority have since been restored.

On what ground do you conceive they were dismissed in the first instance?-Of course, representations to Lord Manners by

the persons in whom he had confidence in the county. He could not have any personal knowledge or personal feelings, as I conceive, upon the subject; he acted, in my opinion, upon the opinions of others, and who deceived him upon the subject.

Do you think there is at present a fair proportion of Roman Catholics in the commission of the peace in the counties with which you are acquainted?-I do not think there is. In the county of Cork there are some gentlemen who are not restored, and one in particular, who, I think, ought not ever to have been struck out, and ought to be restored. In Kerry every thing has been conducted with the utmost fairness as to the magis tracy. I do not know it, but I believe it to be so, to a great extent, in the county of Limerick. In the county of Clare one very excellent Catholic magistrate was struck out, who has been since restored. I do not know the individuals of that county further than that, with respect to the subject matter of the question.

Generally speaking, in those counties, have the Catholics a fair share of the bench, in proportion to their property?-In Kerry they certainly have; and I would venture to say, that the Catholic magistrates are among the most useful magistrates. In Cork I do not think they have. I should think they have in Limerick, and also in later times in Clare.

Do you think the Roman Catholics in the part of Ireland to which you have adverted have any reason to complain of the conduct of the magistrates in point of partiality in the administration of justice? The system has left just this impression upon their minds, that in all cases where they are before the magistrates, it would be better for them to be Protestants than Catholics; that they would prefer their being Protestants.

That is the general impression upon their minds?That is the general impression upon their minds, produced by the result of the system infinitely more than by any individual misconduct in magistrates, but there are, of course, individual instances to create and continue that impression.

There is no qualification in point of property requisite for magistrates in Ireland?-Generally there is no qualification, as far as my limited knowledge of the law extends, for magistrates in Ireland; for the performance of particular functions of the magistracy there are qualifications.

Would it, in your opinion, be an improvement if some quali fication of property were established, without which the office of magistrate could not be held?—Yes; I should think that certainly an improvement.

Do you think that there are persons holding the commission of

the peace in Ireland, who would not be able to produce any qualification which the legislature might think fit to require ?The impression upon my mind is, that there are still persons in the commission of the peace who could not qualify at all; I am quite sure there are many who could not truly qualify.

The question does not include corporate magistrates?—No; I do not refer to them, there is no question as to the insolvency of several of those.

You conjecture, that if they were disqualified from want of property, they would not be a very great loss to the country as magistrates?-A clear gain, in my opinion.

You do not include all in that?—I should be inclined to say, that almost all those that could not qualify should be struck out; I should be sorry to say all, for I might include persons that I ought not to include.

As far as your knowledge of Ireland goes, would it be difficult to find a sufficient number of gentlemen possessed of real landed property to act as magistrates, if the qualification of real property was required?-No; I think a sufficient number of magistrates would still be found. I think that it would be a positive improvement to diminish the number of magistrates in Ireland; that is the impression that is upon my mind from my experience.

Have you formed any judgment what extent of qualification would be desirable ?—I should not venture to do that further than saying, that I think no man ought to be a magistrate who had not at least five hundred pounds a-year; but I speak from a very loose, and therefore on that account very unsatisfactory, consideration.

Do you think that there are districts in Ireland where you could not for a great extent find magistrates that would be able to produce such a qualification?-There are considerable districts; and wherever particular circumstances arose, the statute law should certainly leave the Chancellor an opportunity of making officers of the army magistrates, for their own protection, and the better to enable them to use the military force with that effect, and so suddenly as to suppress imminent danger. I do not therefore include, in speaking of qualification, officers in the army. In the course of my experience I never knew a complaint of an officer in the army who was a magistrate; on the contrary, the peasants would infinitely prefer going to him, rather than to several other magistrates, so far as I have

seen.

Are there many clergymen in the magistracy?—There were a very great number; there are still very many. Before the

revision, clergymen, down to the poorest curate, were in general in the commission; a number of curates were struck out at the period of the revision.

Is it not necessary at present to have clergymen_magistrates in some parts of Ireland, for want of proper people to act?Certainly it is; the rectors of the established church are generally gentlemen of education, and constitute, as a portion of the magistracy, in individual instances, a most respectable and befitting class.

You have already mentioned, in answer to a question, that you think there are several large tracts of country which could not afford a magistrate, according to the qualification you have just specified; how do you think that that deficiency could be supplied ?- Though I stated the fact, I think that, supposing the absence of those magistrates to be the result, it would not be worse than any evil that would exist from their not being on the spot; the only evil that would result from their absence would be, the travelling a little further, to look for a respectable magistrate; and it seems to me it would be better to give an Irish peasant the trouble of another half day's, or even day's journey, than to put an improper magistrate in his immediate neighbourhood.

Unless

Will you state your opinion as to the mode in which the jurisdiction in the case of tithe is exercised in ecclesiastical and other courts?-It can be exercised in ecclesiastical courts only, and by the magistrates, except in cases of contract. there be a bargain for the tithes, they cannot sue in the courts of law for them; in courts of equity they can sue for them by bill. There are therefore remaining the two jurisdictions for tithes, namely, the ecclesiastical courts and courts of equity. The ecclesiastical courts are considered, and I believe them to be, an extreme grievance in that respect. The expense of a citation is eighteen shillings; the tithes may be but five, or ten, or fifteen shillings. Frequent adjournments take place; and the ecclesiastical courts are situated in one point of an extensive country; peasants have frequently to travel 25 and 30 miles, and to go back again with the case untried; then, when it comes to be tried, there is no great confidence in the decisionnone at all. Proverbs are applied to it that are very expressive; and, in short, there is no notion amongst the peasantry of obtaining justice. The tithe valuator is a man very little esteemed by the people in general; his oath is almost conclusive; and the practice, therefore, of levying tithes through the ecclesiastical court is very much complained of. There is a double application of expense; for when the ecclesiastical court has pronounced its decree, it issues a sentence, denominated a

monition, that in itself is inoperative, and is carried into effect only by a civil bill process to the sessions court, where the production of the monition is made conclusive evidence; but then the expense first of a monition is incurred, and afterwards the expense of a civil bill decree to carry it into effect; and thus frequently five or six times the amount of the subject matter of dispute is accumulated in costs, exclusive of the expense of attending the tribunals.

Are you acquainted with the administration of justice by the magistrates of corporate towns ?-It is extremely complained of in both civil and criminal matters; they have civil jurisdictions, called courts of conscience, that set at defiance certainly every notion of conscience; they are considered as the worst receptacles of perjury; they are very much complained of, and I believe most justly complained of. The magistrates in corporate towns derive very considerable emolument from that miserable species of litigation, and wherever men derive emolument from it, it is not to be expected that they will discourage it, and the natural results are understood to have followed from the system in Ireland.

What is the limitation of causes in the courts of conscience? In the different corporations they are different; 40s. and 51. are the usual limitations in those courts.

Have the magistrates no other jurisdiction?They have, as magistrates, criminal jurisdictions; they have all the functions of magistracy to perform in the criminal jurisdiction; and in the corporate towns there are many complaints of their proceedings, and a good deal of apprehension and complaint with respect to differences of religion.

Does it not often happen that persons who are ex-officio magistrates in the corporate towns get also the commission of the peace for the adjoining counties?-That is the fact; but I have known most outrageous instances of misconduct in corporate magistrates. In the town of Tralee there was a person, a provost there, who was understood to have a regular scale of money, for which he bailed any offence whatsoever. There is, I believe, a jurisdiction lately given to the Chancellor over such magistrates. There was a criminal information filed against this gentleman in the court of King's Bench. He had been five or six years, or more, in the office of provost in the town, committing every species of nuisance in that way; bailing most improperly; at the rate of ten guineas for a capital felony of an atrocious kind, five for a minor offence.

Are the magistrates of corporate towns removable by any process but a criminal information?-They are certainly not removable by any process but that which arises out of the King's