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the pressure of heavy rents; the pressure of tithes and local taxes; but principally the exactions of landlords and tithe owners, and other tithe agents; the mal-administration of justice; the partial and corrupt administration of justice.

On the part of the magistrates ?-On the part of the magistrates and in the manor courts; and the impression upon the minds of the common people, that there was no law for them but the will of the magistrates; and that there was no law from which they could derive redress, no fixed law of the land, except through the interest or favour they may happen to possess with magistrates.

Do you conceive there was any political cause?—I think there was one great cause that will always, so long as it exists, predispose the people to disturbance, and to suspect (perhaps without cause) the administration of justice; that is, their being, in their own minds, a degraded and oppressed class, when they compare themselves with other classes of the king's subjects.

Do you allude to their political disabilities?—I do most distinctly.

Do you think that is felt by them as a cause of grievance? -I know it is. It is not felt as a practical and immediate grievance; but it is felt by them as a cause why they have not the same confidence in those in power as the favoured classes have, and why they are oppressed, because they consider themselves to be looked on as belonging to a degraded caste.

Can you give the Committee any instances from which you are led to conclude that they do take a lively interest in that question?—There was a measure lately proposed by the association in Dublin, called the Catholic Association, to raise a fund for the redress of Catholic grievances, and for the promotion of what they called the Catholic cause in this country through the medium of the press; the proposal was, that there should be a monthly penny or half-penny subscription, according to the ability or will of the individuals for the promotion of that object, and wherever that project has been introduced, it has been taken up most ardently by the people.

Do you known of any collection having been made?—Yes; to produce a collection, it is necessary that some individual or individuals should take the lead. I have not in my parish introduced it, nor has any other individual yet. I have not introduced it, because I am the Catholic clergyman, and I do not wish to combine much politics with my duty as a priest; but if it were introduced, I would second and promote it. I have particular reasons for not so doing at present, for I am under the necessity of endeavouring to build, by voluntary subscrip

tions (having no other means), a Catholic chapel, and I apprehend, that the raising such a subscription at present would impede the progress of the chapel; but I know that in the town of Clonakilty it has been introduced, and I have been assured lately, that the farmers, and even the labourers, most ardently embrace the opportunity of manifecting their attachment to what they call the cause of the Catholics, by contributing.

You consider that as a proof of the interest they take?— Yes.

How much money has been raised?--I was told by a person that acted as secretary, that in one month they had ten pounds ready to be transmitted, and that there might be ten pounds more for local purposes, and to defray some expenses of publication.

Was it all collected in pennies ?-In pennies.

That was remitted to the Catholic Association?-It was to be remitted to the Catholic Association.

Do you conceive that the granting the Catholic Question, as it is called, would contribute immediately to tranquillize the minds of the people?-I do not conceive it would immediately produce tranquillity; but I think it would lay such a foundation, that if it were accompanied with a redress of other grievances, it would lead to the tranquillization of the country, and to what I conceive to be the cordial union in social and civil matters of the people of all classes and religious sects; the people would be amalgamated into one common

mass.

Do you think that, without that foundation, the other measures you have alluded to would be sufficient?—I think they may produce temporary quiet, but I do not think the country would be permanently so; when I say that I think the country would not be permanently quiet, I mean to say, that I do not think the people generally would have that affectionate attachment to the present order of things, as would induce them to step forward and support the existing government in any exigency.

You have alluded to the general impression, that justice was not fairly administered; in that observation, you allude to the conduct of magistrates generally throughout the country? -Yes.

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Can you state to the Committee, to what extent you think that defect in the administration of the law is felt, and any instances which you think would throw a light upon the subject?-I think that evil has been considerably diminished since the introduction of the system of holding petty sessions,

whereby the magistrates act in open court, and under the re, straint of the public opinion; they are more or less cognizant by public opinion, and their acts are liable to be scrutinized; but before that institution, I do know several instances, I have known magistrates who had no other visible mode of support, but the trade they carried on as magistrates.

. Do you mean taking fees?-Receiving presents to a large amount, having their work done, presents of potatoes, corn and cattle, and presents of money too.

Having potatoes dug for them?-Having potatoes dug for them, their turf cut, and their other work done, if they had any to do; they were supported by the contributions thus raised, and by donations in money. I do not state this of my own personal knowledge, but as the common belief.

Do you speak of that part of the county where you are now established, or of that part of the county where you lived before? That part where I live at present.

Were those matters notorious?-As notorious as the noonday sun.

Does that subsist still?—I cannot say that it subsists to the extent that it subsisted heretofore.

You speak as to the extent of the evil, but with regard to the impression as to the facility of obtaining strict justice, was that felt in the former parish in which you were, as well as in the latter?-1 certainly must own, that I did not hear of any complaints in the part of the country where I resided, when parish priest of Castletownroche.

How long have you been in your present parish ?—Since the year 1814. The principal reason why no complaints existed in Castletownroche, is this, the gentlemen that had the com mission of the peace in that part of the county were principally gentlemen of high rank and character; and if others came into that office, they were under their control, more or less; and I do conceive, that where gentlemen of high rank and character resided and acted, there was less abuse than where the office of magistrate was committed to persons of little property, and of very inferior education.

: Have not several of the objectionable magistrates in that county which you have gone to reside in, been removed?---Some of them; and some meritorious magistrates too.

Have you known instances of particular misconduct on the part of magistrates ?-Indeed the instances were so numerous in that part of the country, they were so constant, as scarcely to excite particular notice; I have known instances within my own knowledge.

Is there any delicacy on the part of magistrates, in inter

fering with respect to complaints made by the tenants of other gentlemen against their landlords ?-Yes; I do not know whether that has been diminished since the institution of the petty sessions, because, I take it, they now think it compulsory upon them to listen to complaints; but before the institution of petty sessions, that sort of etiquette existed; a man applying for justice was often obliged to shift about in vain from one magistrate to another.

It was thought an unneighbourly and unkind thing? Yes, and a breach of gentlemanly conduct, to take informations where gentlemen were concerned.

- Do you consider that the lower orders are attached, or otherwise, to the gentry of the country?-I do not think they are very much attached to them.

Do not you consider, that sometimes that unwillingness was caused by a belief that the complaint was very often frivolous? -No, I do not think so on that ground, but it was conceived. it would be a breach of respect and regard.

Are the Committee to understand, that when a tenant came to a magistrate to complain against his landlord, that if the magistrate found what was the nature of the intended complaint, he declined hearing it altogether; that it was not that he refused to act upon it, having listened to it, but that it often occurred that he refused to hear the statement of it? -If the person of whom the complaint was made were a gentleman, or ranked as a gentleman, and he were on good terms with the magistrate to whom the application for redress was made, the magistrate very often declined interfering, because it would lead to a personal result between him and the gentleman.

In any of those cases in which you have known magistrates decline receiving informations, were they, in point of fact, applied to when there were other magistrates, who lived nearer the residence of the complainant, who had been passed over?—In general the application was made, first to the magistrate nearest, and then to one more remote; the nearer magistrate would probably not interfere, because he would assign some pretext, the remote magistrate would not interfere, because the nearer did not.

When you speak of magistrates of that district, do you describe middle men in general, or gentlemen of property? There are a very few gentlemen of rank in the district, but where gentlemen of rank and education reside and act, justice is generally very fairly dispensed.

Is not Lord Carberry a resident in the county ?-Not imme diately in the part where I reside.

Spending a very large income in the country?—Yes; he has a large income.

You have stated, that you do not think there is much attachment on the part of the peasantry of Ireland to the gentry; but where a gentleman, having patrimonial interest in the soil resides, and conducts himself well to the people, is there not a great disposition to be attached to him?-A great disposition; but I am afraid there is a feeling amongst the people that deducts considerably from that attachment; they feel that they exist more by sufferance than by law; but wherever they are treated kindly they are grateful, because they think the kindness extraordinary, and the result of natural benevolence rather than of the law; nevertheless, though they are grateful to the individual, they are disaffected to the system.

Since the establishment of petty sessions, do the magistrates ever act in their individual capacity out of petty sessions ?Yes; instances have come to my knowledge.

In what cases ?-In tithe cases; I have heard of their acting out of petty sessions in other cases too. In tithe cases two magistrates must act.

To what kind of tithe cases do you allude?—I was going to state, what the Committee are aware of, that there is an Act of Parliament that enables magistrates, not being clergymen, to adjudicate tithes in a summary way, upon a complaint made by tithe claimants for the substraction of tithe.

Veneris, 11° die Junii, 1824.

THE RIGHT HON. LORD VISCOUNT PALMERSTON,

IN THE CHAIR.

The Rev. Michael Collins again called in; and Examined. BEFORE you left the county of Cork, was it generally known that you had been summoned over to attend this Committee? It was.

What impression did it make upon the people of the country?--it appeared to me to have excited sensations of delight amongst the Catholics in our neighbourhood, and among the people interested in the general welfare of the country.

What did they understand by the summons you had received? -They understood the summons was for the purpose of eliciting

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