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Should you conceive it objectionable even if the commission was composed, not only of Catholics, but of Catholic ecclesiastics? -That they should report to the Crown the appointment, I have no objection to it.

That they should report to the Crown the character and principles of the individual so appointed?-Of the individual so appointed they might report their opinion; who he is, and their opinion as to his fitness and loyalty, &c. &c.

You would consider a previous examination as to his qualification as inconsistent with the discipline of the church ?—I do not think it would be consistent.

In the event of a provision being made by the State for the support of the Roman Catholic church, do you think there would be any objection in principle to a certificate being required by the Crown from an ecclesiastical Roman Catholic commission, appointed by the Crown, of the character, loyalty, principles, and domestic nomination of the bishops and clergy, before they received the stipend which the State gave them?-That is perfectly consistent.

You see no kind of objection to such an arrangement ?—Not the smallest.

Your only objection then is an objection to any interference on the part of a Protestant State, even though exercised by an ecclesiastical Roman Catholic tribunal in the appointment itself?— Certainly; that is all.

Do you think it just on the part of a Protestant State to require to be assured of the loyalty and irreproachable character of the Roman Catholic priesthood and hierarchy, before they received a stipend from the State?-I think it is perfectly consistent and perfectly right.

Do you conceive that the payment of the Roman Catholic hierarchy and clergy by the State would put an end to the complaint at present existing in Ireland, of the support of a double order of clergy being cast upon the Catholic peasantry?—I think it would be a relief to them, and I think in course of time it would be acceptable enough to them.

Do you conceive that, as far as that relief was felt, it would be an additional security to the Protestant establishment in Ireland? -I think it would.

Have you ever heard expressed in Ireland, or do you yourself feel any disposition as a Roman Catholic bishop, to interfere with the temporal authority or property of the Protestant church PNot the slightest; if I was offered the tithes, I would reject them.

Has it ever been suggested by any individuals amongst the Roman Catholic hierarchy, or do you yourself feel any desire that the Roman Catholic bishops should in any event be admitted

into the House of Lords ?-Never; I never had such an idea, and it never entered the mind of any ecclesiastic.

You never heard that the admission of the Catholic bishops into the House of Lords has entered into the contemplation of any of the leading Lay-catholics in Ireland ?—It never entered their minds. We have no ambition for those matters; our great anxiety is for the peace and welfare of the country, and we are ready to make any sacrifices for the sake of promoting that object which is consistent with the discipline of the church.

The Committee would wish to inquire, whether you see any objection on the part of the clergy to the relinquishment of all those dues and fees which they now receive for the performance of religious rites, or for their own support, in the event of their receiving an adequate provision from the State ?-There are some which they might not be willing to relinquish; for instance, perquisites on marriages, and baptisms and funerals; but the rule I would observe myself on such an event taking place would be, to have a meeting of the clergy to regulate "thus far you shall go and no farther;" I would conceive it my duty to do so.

There is not, however, in the character of those fees or obligations any thing so essential, as to make it impossible or difficult for the clergy to relinquish them ?-Nothing at all; I believe in all churches they have generally what is called small dues.

There is nothing in the oblation which adds either to the sanctity or force of any religious act performed ?—No.

You think there would be no difficulty in relinquishing altogether such fees?—No difficulty, as far as regards discipline.

Do not those fees in many places form the principal portion of the income of the Catholic clergyman ?-Mostly.

What is the marriage fee in your diocese?-They are not allowed to charge more than three crowns.

Are you aware, that in some Catholic countries, in France for instance, the holidays have been diminished to four ?-I did hear they were diminished.

They were so diminished by permissive power granted from Rome?-I presume so.

Is it not the custom of the people of Ireland to indulge in great licentiousness on those days ?-It is so, I fear; and on Sundays too.

In fact they almost cease to observe them religiously?—They cease to keep them according to the spirit of them when they violate the rules prescribed.

You were asked a question on the subject of the state of the chapels in your diocese, are the chapels generally in a good state, or otherwise ?-Some of them are, but the others are miserable enough.

When you answer that they are in a good state, do you mean that the buildings are in good repair, or that they are commensurate to the wants of the people ?-They are, some of them, in a respectable situation, so far as regards the building outside; they are not so decently finished inside as I could wish.

Are there many places within your diocese where the chapels are entirely inadequate to the number of the congregation ?—I think in general all are so.

Will you describe what occurs in such cases, or how the population can attend divine worship?-The only remedy we can adopt in order to avoid the awkwardness of remaining outside, is to increase the number of clergymen. At the chapel at Ballimahon, I attend every morning at eight o'clock, on Sundays, invariably, and my curate attends at ten and at twelve afterwards, and there is a large congregation each time.

Are there other places within your diocese where service is celebrated three times ?-Yes, there are.

Are there any instances where it is celebrated more than three times ?-I think not.

Are those three services on the Sunday entirely owing to the number of the congregation and the inadequacy of the means of receiving them, or at all those parishes would not two services be celebrated on Sunday ?-Not always two, in case where there are two chapels and only one clergyman.

Are there any instances in which the congregation are obliged to kneel down in the open air ?--It does occur in many instances where there is only one mass.

Is there any endowment in any part of your diocese for the support of the parochial clergy, or is there any house for the resi dence of any of them in any instance?-There are a few instances since I came into the diocese where they have built parochial houses.

In such instances has the house been built at the expense of the Catholic clergyman, or by a contribution from the parish ?— Principally by the clergyman, and partly by contribution.

Will that house, in that case, be the property of his successors? So far as regards those with which I am concerned I think it must, because I have endeavoured always that it should be within the precincts of the chapel-yard. I have heard of instances where it has happened that the relation of the deceased refused to give up possession.

Where the relation of the deceased has claimed as his heir? Yes.

Do you know any instances where ejectments have been brought to recover possession of such buildings ?--I have heard

of them.

Will you have the goodness to state to the Committee how your diocese is circumstanced with respect to parochial schools ?— The school-houses are miserable.

Have you been enabled to do much of late years in the improvement of them?-A good deal; but want of means leaves us much still to do.

Have you a general school in each parish ?-There is a general school, and particular schools in each parish.

How many schools are there in the large parishes ?—I suppose about five or six in large parishes.

In what sort of buildings are they generally kept ?—Some of them very wretched; in the towns they are better.

Are the chapels generally used for the purpose of schoolhouses in country parishes?-In some places they are; I disapprove of it, but sometimes of necessity they are allowed, from there being no other.

Have many schools been founded or aided under the esta blishment in Dublin, within your diocese ?-I do not think there is one at all, of the Catholic schools under my direction, so founded or aided.

Will you mention to the Committee how funds are obtained towards those schools that are under your direction ?-Subscriptions from priests, subscriptions from those Catholics that have some better means, whatever assistance I can afford, and mostly some stipend from the parents of the children.

Have you also received assistance from Protestant proprietors? -I have as often as I have applied to them, and I would have applied to them more, but I did hope that this session of Parliament there would be something done for us in that way.

You stated that at one time you had an intention of sending a nephew of your own to Clongowes?—I had.

To what school did you send your nephew?-To Mr. Edgeworth's school, in the county of Longford.

Your resolution led you to send him to a school kept under the direction of a Protestant gentleman, in preference to a school kept by the Jesuits?—I considered it a fit school, and it was convenient.

Are there any religious distinctions of any kind in the school which is kept under the superintendence of Mr. Edgeworth ?— Not the slightest.

It is attended indifferently by Protestants and Catholics?-By Protestants and Catholics; in fact the words Protestant and Catholic are not only not mentioned, but I think, except from the division that takes place on Sundays, they do not know what religion the others are of.

How many young men are there in that establishment ?-Two hundred and fifty or thereabouts, so far as I have a recollection.

Does not this arise out of regulations that Mr. Edgeworth has there adopted, and which totally prevent the possibility of any spirit of proselytism being manifested?—I think it is altogether his own regulation; and such was my approbation of that school, in contradistinction to proselyting schools, that I sent my nephew there, to sanction the one in contradistinction to the others.

Is any religious instruction given at that school?-On two days in the week the catechism is taught, in one part of the building, to the Protestants, and in the other part of the building, to the Catholics; and on the Sunday evening, when the one comes from the church, and the other from the chapel, they assemble for instruction.

Would you object to allow the same system of education to be extended to the lower orders?-I am as anxious for the education of the poor of my diocese as any man can be, provided there is no interference with religion.

Has the system of creating 40s. freeholds with a view to an election interest prevailed extensively in your diocese ?-I presume it has.

Have you witnessed any occasions in which large bodies of the population have been brought to a sessions town for the purpose of registering freeholds?—No, I have not witnessed; I never attended such.

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You have not happened to be present at registries?-No. Have you seen large bodies of freeholders coming in to be registered, or returning from having registered?—I have.

Can you describe the general appearance of that class of individuals?Wretched, in many instances..

Do you conceive that class generally to consist of persons possessing, in the real sense of the law, a freehold of 40s. value?. I rather think they do; if they were to dispose of their freeholds, they would generally get 40s.; but in many instances I do not think they are worth it.

Are they not in a state of entire dependance upon the landlords in general? They are.

Is that owing to the lower class of occupying tenant being generally in arrear for rent, or is it owing to other circumstances of his situation giving the landlord a powerful influence over him? I suppose both.

Does the system of joint tenancy prevail much in the part of the country with which you are acquainted ?-I think it does; but I think it is doing away a good deal.

Have you ever heard of a candidate canvassing the 40s. free

holders?—Yes; I have.

In frequent instances ?-In some instances,

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