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It is the use of the word per that constitutes it a prayer of intercession? Yes, it is through her intercession only that all those favours are sought to be obtained by this prayer.

You stated in your examination yesterday, that Catholics in addressing the cross, do not consider the cross as more than either a picture or a piece of wood?-Nothing more.

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The Committee see in the same book of prayers the following addressed to the cross: "Crux Christi semper sit meum; Crux Christi est quam semper adoro; Crux Christi est vera "salus; Crux Christi superat gladium; Crux Christi solvit "vincula mortis; Crux Christi est arma invincibilis; Crux "Christi est via veritas et vita; Crux Christi impedit omne "malum; Crux Christi dat omne bonum; Crux Christi affert "vitam eternam; Crux Christi salvet me; Crux Christi sit super me; Crux Christi sit ante me; Crux Christi sit post "me, quia antiquus hostis semper fugit ubi te vidit." The Committee wish to ask whether those prayers can be addressed to the cross merely as matter, or as a piece of wood, or whether they do not contain_more?-Nothing more than this; we consider that it was on the cross Jesus Christ purchased redemption and salvation for us; the words Crux Christi adoro te have not reference to the material of the cross, but that adoration has reference to Him who died upon the cross.

Then the cross is not separated from Jesus Christ in any prayer which Catholics address either to Christ upon the cross, or to the cross itself?-When we address the cross in these words, our adoration is directed to Him who died upon it.

Is the cross used in that sense figuratively?-Figuratively; of course, in the sense I have mentioned.

And in no other sense than that in which a Protestant would understand the word when he may be told to bear the cross of Christ? [A book was handed to the witness.]

Is that a catholic prayer book in common use in Ireland ?— It is an approved catholic prayer book in common use in Ireland.

In page 204, in paragraph 11, there is the following passage: "Catholics renounce all divine worship and adoration of images "or pictures; God alone we worship and adore, nevertheless "we place pictures to reduce our wandering thoughts and "excite our memory towards heavenly things; further, we "allow a certain honour to be shown to the images of Christ "and his saints beyond what is due to profane images and "figures; not that we believe any divinity or virtue to reside "in them for which they ought to be honoured, but because "the honour given to pictures as regard to the prototype or thing represented," is that the doctrine taught by the Roman Catholic clergy to the people of Ireland? Precisely.

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479

Veneris, 25° die Marti, 1825.

LORD VISCOUNT PALMERSTON,

IN THE CHAIR.

The Right Reverend James Magaurin, D.D, Titular Bishop of the Diocese of Ardagh, called in; and Examined.

ARE you acquainted with the transactions that took place in the year 1788, respecting a communication with foreign Universities, on the subject of matters relating to the authority of the Pope?-Yes; I have some recollection of it.

Mr. Pitt, in that year, called upon the Committee of the English Roman Catholics to send some queries to those Universities?Yes, it is on my recollection, that it was a good deal talked of in the Irish College of Salamanca, in the year 1789, on my arrival there.

These are the questions; first, "Has the Pope or cardinals, or any body of men, or any individual of the Church of Rome, any civil authority, power, jurisdiction or pre-eminence whatsoever, within the realm of England; secondly, Can the Pope, cardinals, or any body of men, or any individual of the Church of Rome, absolve or dispense with His Majesty's subjects from their oath of allegiance, upon any pretext whatsoever; thirdly, Is there any principle in the tenets of the Catholic Faith, by which Catholics are justified in not keeping faith with heretics, or other persons differing from them in religious opinions, in any transaction either of a public or a private nature." Where are the answers to those questions to be found?-I believe the Universities of Salamanca, Alcala, and Valladolid, in Spain, have been consulted, and I believe also the Universities of Paris, Louvain, and Douay, and those universities have given their answers, and I believe their answers are all the same in substance.

Are not they contained at length in Mr. Butler's Memoirs?— Yes; I believe so.

Are those answers acknowledged to contain a doctrine that is admitted to be correct by the Catholic bishops of Ireland?—No doubt of it; and by the Catholic laity; I believe they form the substance of the oath of allegiance which is taken by the clergy and laity; I believe the oath of allegiance has been framed on the foundation of those decisions.

Was not an Abstract of those answers published, with the address of the Catholic Committee of 1793 ?—Yes; I think so.

Have you read them?-I have; and I subscribe to them, with all my heart and soul.

Is that before you, an Abstract of the answers that were returned, (the same being shewn to the witness) ?—It is.

[The same was delivered in, and read.]

"Abstract from the Answer of the Sacred Faculty of Divinity of Paris, to the above Queries.

"After an introduction, according to the usual forms of the University, they answer the first query, by declaring, Neither the Pope nor the cardinals, nor any body of men, nor any other person of the Church of Rome, hath any civil authority, civil power, civil jurisdiction, or civil pre-eminence whatsoever, in any kingdom, and consequently none in the kingdom of England, by reason or virtue of any authority, power, jurisdiction, or pre-eminence, by Divine institution, inherent in, or granted, or by any other means, belonging the Pope, or the Church of Rome. This doctrine, the Sacred Faculty of Divinity at Paris, has always held, and upon every occasion maintained; and upon every occasion has rigidly proscribed the contrary doctrine from her schools.

"Answer to the second Query, Neither the Pope nor the cardinals, nor any body of men, nor any person of the Church of Rome, can by virtue of the keys, absolve or release the subjects of the King of England from their oath of allegiance.

"This and the first query are so intimately connected, that the answer of the first immediately and naturally applies to the second, &c.

"Answer to the third query, There is no tenet in the Catholic Church by which Catholics are justified by not keeping faith with heretics, or those who differ from them in matters of religion; the tenet, that it is lawful to break faith with heretics, is so repugnant to common honesty, and the opinions of Catholics, that there is nothing of which those who have defended the Catholic faith against Protestants, have complained more heavily, than the malice and calumny of their adversaries, in imputing this tenet to them, &c. &c. &c.

"Given at Paris, in the General Assembly of the Sorbonne, held on Thursday the 11th day, before the calends of March, 1789.

"University of Louvain. "Signed in due form," "The Faculty of Divinity at Louvain, having been requested to give her opinion upon the questions above stated, does it with readiness; but struck with astonishment that such questions should, at the end of this eighteenth century, be proposed to any learned body, by inhabitants of a kingdom that glories in the talents and discernment of its natives-The Faculty being assembled for the above purpose, it is agreed, with the unanimous

assent of all voices, to answer the first and second queries absolutely in the negative.

"The Faculty does not think it incumbent upon her, in this place, to enter upon the proofs of her opinion, or to shew how it is supported by passages in the Holy Scriptures, or the writings of antiquity; that has already been done by Bossuet, De Marca, the two Barclays, Goldastres, the Pithæuses, Argentre Widrington, and his Majesty King James the First, in his Dissertation against Bellarmine and Du Perron; and by many others, &c. &c.

"The Faculty then proceeds to declare, that the sovereign power of the State, is in nowise (not even indirectly as it is termed) subject to, or dependent upon any other power, though it be a spiritual power, or even though it be instituted for eternal salvation, &c. &c.

"That no man, nor any assembly of men, however éminent in dignity and power, nor even the whole body of the Catholic church, though assembled in general council, can upon any ground or pretence whatsoever, weaken the bond of union between the sovereign and the people; still less can they absolve or free the subjects from their oath of allegiance.

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Proceeding to the third question, the said Faculty of Divinity, (in perfect wonder that such a question should be proposed to her,) most positively and unequivocally answers, That there is not, and there never has been among the Catholics, or in the doctrines of the church of Rome, any law or principle which makes it lawful for Catholics to break their faith with heretics, or others of a different persuasion from themselves in matters of religion, either in public or private concerns.. The Faculty declares the doctrine of the Catholics to be, that the divine and natural law which makes it a duty to keep faith and promises, is the same, and is neither shaken nor diminished, if those with whom the engagement is made, hold erroneous opinions in matters of religion, &c. "Signed in due form, on the 18th of November, 1788."

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University of Valladolid.

"To the first question it was answered, That neither Pope, cardinals, or even a general church, have any civil authority, power, jurisdiction or pre-eminence, directly or indirectly, in the kingdom of Great Britain, or over any other kingdom or province in which they possess no temporal dominion.

"To the second, it is answered, That neither Pope nor cardinals, nor even a general council, can absolve the subjects of Great Britain from their oaths of allegiance, or dispense with their obligat

"To the third, it is answered, That the obligation of keeping. faith, is grounded on the law of nature, which binds all men

equally, without respect to their religious opinions; and with regard to Catholics, is still more cogent, as it is confirmed by the principles of their religion.

"Signed in the usual form, February 17, 1789."

Do not the oaths that are required to be taken by Catholics, by the Act of 1773, and the Act of 1793, contain a denial of those charges that are so frequently made against Roman Catholics, with respect to not keeping faith with heretics, and with respect to the supposed temporal authority of the Pope?—Yes; I think those oaths contain that.

[A copy of the Oath required by the Act of the 13th and 14th of George 3d, was delivered in; and read as follows:] "I, A. B. do take Almighty God, and his only Son Jesus Christ, my Redeemer, to witness, That I will be faithful, and bear true allegiance to our most gracious Sovereign Lord King George the Third, and him will defend, to the utmost of my power, from all conspiracies and attempts whatever, that shall be made against his person, crown, and dignity; and I will do my utmost endeavour, to disclose and make known [to His Majesty, and his heirs, all treasons and traitorous conspiracies which may be formed against him or them. And I do faithfully promise to maintain, support, and defend, to the utmost of my power, the succession of the Crown in His Majesty's family, against any person or persons whatsoever, hereby utterly renouncing and abjuring any obedience or allegiance unto the person taking upon himself the style and title of Prince of Wales, in the lifetime of his father, and who since his death, is said to have assumed the style and title of King of Great Britain and Ireland, by the name of Charles the Third; and to any other person, claiming or pretending a right to the crown of these realms; and I do swear, that I do reject und detest, as unchristian and impious, to believe that it is lawful to murder or destroy any person or persons whatsoever, for or under pretence of their being heretics; and also, that unchristian and. impious principle, that no faith is to be kept with heretics. I further declare, that it is no article of my faith, and that I do renounce, reject and abjure the opinion, that princes excommunicated by the Pope and council, or by any authority of the See of Rome, or by any authority whatsoever, may be deposed and murdered by their subjects, or by any person whatsoever; and I do promise, that I will not hold, maintain or abet any such opinion, or any other opinion contrary to what is expressed in this declaration; and I do declare, that I do not believe that the Pope of Rome, or any other foreign prince, prelate, state or potentate, hath or ought to have

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