moment, I believe that there are in the arch-diocese of Tuam from about fifteen to eighteen slated chapels, and eight or ten now in progress; there are in all about one hundred and six places for catholic worship.

You mean buildings?Yes, I mean buildings of some de scription.

How are they protected from the weather?-With the exception of those I have mentioned, all the others are thatched chapels; some of them wretched, none of them sufficiently spacious to contain the congregation, and in many instances the public prayers are celebrated in the open air, having no covering but the canopy of heaven.

Are those chapels which are of a better description usually in the towns within the diocese ?-In the towns usually.

Can you state to the Committee the number of the largest congregation which has been in the practice of assembling at any one of those places where the accommodation is insufficient? I have known congregations to average from 1000 to 1500 where they had not sufficient accommodation in places of worship.

Where there are chapels for the reception of the people, is it the practice for great numbers to assemble without side, in the neighbourhood of the place of worship, or do they so from the impossibility of their being received and accommodated, within the building?---They remain on the outside because there is no accommodation, no room for them in the inside.

Do they equally remain outside, notwithstanding the inclemency of the weather, or other circumstances which might add to the inconvenience of their being so exposed ?---They remain outside under the inclemency of the weather for the purpose of offering up their prayers, and because they cannot get room and accommodation in the house.

From what distance have you known the people in the habit of sometimes coming to resort to a place of worship?---I have known them to resort to a place of worship at a distance of four, five, and six miles.

And regularly to resort on days of worship from such a distance?—Yes.

Are there any parishes within the Unions in your arch-diocese, in which there is no place of worship whatever?-I know of no Union that has not some place of worship.

Will you have the goodness to describe to the Committee such a place of religious worship as that you have last alluded to, what may be its size, the mode in which it is constructed, and the probable expense of such an edifice ?-I have seen some of those edifices where the walls of the house were not above

eight or ten feet high, twelve or fifteen in breadth, and forty or fifty in length.

Thatched of course ?-Thatched.

For what number of persons might that have been intended as an accommodation, or rather what might be the number of the congregation to attend where only such a building existed? -The number of the congregation that is expected to attend, if there could be accommodation for them at many of those places, would amount to 1000 or more.

Have you any funds in your arch-diocese, or other resources applicable to the construction of places of worship, or to the keeping them in repair?-No funds whatever, except the voluntary contributions of the faithful; the contributions of the clergy and the bishops, and the aid they receive from their Protestant brethren and neighbours.

Has that aid been liberally given, and without any admixture of religious feeling?—I have been very much engaged in erecting chapels, of the slated chapels that have been erected; most of them have been in my time; I have been in the several parishes myself, and have taken a part very frequently in the collection, and I do not recollect any instance of my being refused by a Protestant gentleman when I applied to him to contribute towards a chapel.

Placing out of consideration the advantage and the comfort that it would be to the people to have suitable places for their reception, do you conceive that any act would be more acceptable to persons of the Catholic persuasion in Ireland than some means being afforded for improving their places of religious worship? I know of no act that would give the Catholic population of Ireland so much satisfaction as to see that there was some arrangement for the erection of houses of worship for them.

Is it not usual when the inferior class of the persuasion are unable to contribute money for them to contribute their labour, and in other ways to compensate for the deficiency of that subscription which they cannot afford to give ?—Yes; they give their labour where it is a thatched chapel, the poor bring straw, and they give aid in that manner towards the repair of the chapel.

The assessment made upon such occasions, though in its name voluntary, is in point of fact, upon those who are able to contribute any thing, an obligation which cannot be avoided? It cannot be conveniently avoided, and in order to reconcile the people in some measure to it, the plan I have pursued in having those chapels erected is to recommend the clergyman to form a committee in his parish, this committee to consist of the principal men in each village, and to appoint a treasurer, and that

the priest, with the aid of the principal men in each village, would lay an assessment upon the people according to their circumstances; this assessment is collected in the best manner it can, then put into the hands of a treasurer, and expended afterwards upon the building.

Have not instances come frequently within your knowledge where the assessment made in this manner has fallen very heavily upon the people, and has been complained of by them, although submitted to for the sake of having a place of worship?---Many instances have occurred where they complained of the assessment, and of being called upon for this aid.

Are there any means of enforcing that assessment?—No means whatever of enforcing; the clergyman threatens to withhold his services from them, and reproaches them for not contributing; and I know of no other means whatever of enforcing it. But those appeals from the clergy have generally been found successful as far as their means have permitted them to contribute? Yes.

What do you understand by the clergy threatening to withhold their services from them?-What I allude to is, the practice of churching females after their accouchement, and the clergyman, unless he finds that the husband has paid his portion of the cess, does not church the woman till that money for the erection of the chapel is made up.

Is that the only service that they threaten to withhold?That is the only service; they never refuse the administration of sacraments by any means.

Are there many parishes within your arch-diocese in which there are no resident gentry of either persuasion, either Catholic or Protestant?-There are some.

In which county?-In both Galway and Mayo.

Have the Catholic clergy in any parish within your archdiocese any glebe, or possession of other land in right of their pastoral character, or as bequeathed to them by any persons of their own persuasion to be held by those who hold their office? I know two instances.

Will you state those instances?-One in Castlebar, and one

in Tuam.

Are those ancient endowments?-No; the endowment at Castlebar was made by the late Lord Lucan; he gave a house for the clergyman in Castlebar, and in Tuam it has been a lease of a small park, a bishop's lease renewable, and the person who had this lease assigned it over to the clergyman, and the inhabitants of the town made amongst themselves a collection of a sum of money, by which they built a slated house for the accommodation of the clergyman of the town.

How is the trust under which that is held accomplished, or to whom has it been conveyed?-In Tuam it has been conveyed

to me.

To you and to your successors, or to you individually?— To me; and I make a declaration that I hold it for the purpose that I now mention.

Do you think, that if there was a power under the law of endowing parishes, or the holders of parishes of the Catholic persuasion, with houses, or with land whereon houses could be built, that endowment would be carried to any extent, for instance, in your own arch-diocese ?-I think it would, to a greater extent than it is at present.

Do you know of other instances in Ireland, besides those two you have mentioned in the arch-diocese of Tuam?--I know there are many other instances throughout Ireland; I could not exactly refer to them at this moment.

In any instances which have come within your knowledge, have you also known of cases of dispossession of persons holding under such titles?-Not as to a glebe, but I have as to a chapel.

Will you state the instance which has come to your knowledge as to a chapel ?-It has occurred in the parish of Ballynakill, in the arch-diocese of Tuam. There was a Mr. O'Flaherty held the lease of a farm, (and he built a slated chapel for the accommodation of his family, and for the tenantry and people around him. The landlord found in the course of time that there was some formal defect in his lease, and he broke or threatened to break it. He and the landlord came to some agreement, but Mr. O'Flaherty gave up the lease under a verbal understanding with the landlord that the chapel was not to be molested; but after getting possession of the property the landlord thought proper to lock up the chapel doors, and not allow the faithful to resort to it as a place of worship; he converted it into an office or farm-house.

That was in Connamara, was not it?—Yes.

Did he not build another chapel for the people?—Never. In other parts of Ireland, have you heard of cases where the possession of lands, granted either for places of worship, or for the residence of Catholic ministers, has been disputed by the proprietor, after possession has been had, and the buildings erected?—I could not exactly state any particular case.

You have given to the Committee information as to the state of the chapels and places of worship in your diocese; will you inform them what accommodation is afforded for schools, and places of education? We have built large and commodious school-houses for the education of the poor in the towns of Tuam and Westport, and of Castlebar; there are schools

throughout the diocese at large, established by the exertions of the clergy, and the contributions of the faithful, where the poor in each parish receive gratuitous instruction; and in one country parish in the arch-diocese, where there is no resident gentlemen whatever, the Catholic clergyman has succeeded in establishing sixteen schools, for the gratuitous education of the poor of the parish; he has received some aid latterly from some public fund, in money, stationery, and school requisites.

Are the chapels used as school-houses generally, or have you other buildings applicable for that purpose?-All the chapels diocese are used as sunday-schools, and a great many of the country chapels are used as daily schools.

in my

By sunday-schools you mean schools where the children are catechized by the minister?-Schools for religious instruction before and after mass.

In the country parishes where the chapels are used for daily schools, do you apply them to that use, on account of any particular circumstances that make it desirable to use them for that purpose, or for want of other buildings to receive the children? Necessity compels us to use them; we should have great reluctance to convert the house of God into a school if we could avoid it; but the want of having any other place for giving instruction to the poor obliges us to avail ourselves of the chapels as school-houses.

Are there any congregations in your diocese without any place of worship?-I do not know any parishes without some small place. From the inadequacy of the places of worship, on performing parochial visitation, I have been almost in fact obliged to administer confirmation out in the open air, as in the extensive parishes there are sometimes two or more congre gations.

Are the parishes very large?—Not very large, generally.

Do the peasantry of the country express their feelings upon this subject, having no places of worship?-They do regret it extremely, not having places of worship; they feel it very much.

Are you aware that considerable sums of money have been granted for furnishing places of worship for the highlands of Scotland?-I have heard so.

What would be the average expense of building a chapel to contain from one thousand to fifteen hundred people in that part of the country?—I should think from six to eight hundred pounds perhaps.

Is there a disposition amongst the people to attend their places of worship regularly on Sundays?—Yes, I find a very great disposition on their part to attend on Sundays.