The result of this then is, that there are three Protestant parishes pretty nearly co-extensive with two Roman Catholic, as they now stand?—Yes; the two producing, as I think, 400l. a-year each 2001.

And the Protestant producing, independent of the glebehouses and lands, 1,380. ?-Yes.

Are not the Catholics as much interested in the present settlement of the landed property in Ireland as the Protestants?

Yes, to the full extent; we are very sensible, that if the least interference in the settlement of property was to take place, our properties in common would go into the scramble, and we should lose all.

When you say the Catholics, you mean the existing Catholic proprietors?-Yes, certainly.

Is there not a great extent of the landed property in Ireland now in the possession of Catholics?-There is, to a great extent; I speak of my own knowledge, independent of my own neighbourhood; in my own neighbourhood, there are Catholics residing, who possess considerable estates in fee, in the counties of Tipperary, Wexford, Kilkenny, and elsewhere.

Has not a large quantity of landed property been purchased of late years by Catholics?-Yes; whenever opportunities have presented themselves, they have endeavoured to purchase.

Are there not Catholics who have large estates under perpetual leases?—Yes.

And also under leases, that have a considerable time to run? Yes.

Then the Catholics are interested, in your opinion, in preserving the settlement of the landed property in Ireland ?→ They are; they are under the conviction, that if any unfortunate scramble took place, in common with the rest of their fellow-subjects, they would lose their property also.

Would it be possible to restore to the old proprietors the property taken from them?-No; certainly not.

Could the original proprietors be discovered?-I believe they could not.

You believe there is no ground for the views which Catholics have been represented to have, of interfering with the settlement of the landed property in Ireland?-Upon that, I conceive, I am well informed; and my opinion is, they have no foundation whatever.

Is the majority of the present Roman Catholic property in Ireland held under the same holdings as the Protestant property?-Precisely.

And very little under the original holdings?-I believe

there is very little from the original holders; I am not aware of any.

You were examined yesterday, with respect to the circulation of Pastorini's prophecies; were you aware, that handbills had been circulated in the county of Limerick, containing an extract of those prophecies, and observations, trying to inculcate the probability of their being fulfilled?—I never heard it until this day: I never heard of such an occurrence. Then those handbills having been so circulated in the county of Limerick, are you of opinion they could have been circulated by individuals having any other views but those of promoting insurrection and disturbance ?-I conceive they cannot have had any other object in view but that of promoting insurrection and disturbance, and that they must be the bitterest enemies the Roman Catholics can possibly have.

You stated yesterday that there were no Roman Catholic grand jurors in your county; do you mean to say there are none placed upon the grand jury, or none qualified to be grand juries?—I meant to say that I think there are Roman Catholics in Queen's County of equal respectability and intelligence, and possessing equal property with many serving on the grand jury; but I am not prepared to say it is done from any invidious or unkind motive.

Have there never been Roman Catholics on the grand jury? -I never recollect an instance of a grand juryman there of the Roman Catholic persuasion.

Have you ever known gentlemen of that description attend the sheriff, with a view to be put upon the jury?-Never.

Then would the sheriff have the power?-I am not aware whether they ever did.

Was it from non-attendance, and not indisposition on the part of the sheriff, that they were not placed upon the jury? -I do not know whether they waited upon the sheriff, for the purpose of being placed upon it, or not; I have no knowledge one way or the other.

What number of Roman Catholics, of rank and consideration, have been left out of the grand jury of the Queen's County?—I do not say any have been left out, but have not been called upon it; there is one possessed of an estate in fee, and I think others of equal respectability, having considerable property, though not in Queen's County, but there are a great many Protestants, who serve on the grand jury in the Queen's County, who have not an estate in fee.

Are you aware whether the Roman Catholic gentlemen consider this a grievance ?-The Roman Catholic gentlemen are in the habit of talking the matter over, and they do consider it a grievance.

Are you aware that that is not the case in adjoining coun ties?—I am aware in the county of Kilkenny, and the county of Tipperary, it is otherwise; and I would mention Waterford too, and I believe Wexford.

Do you consider that the Roman Catholics have, generally speaking, been advancing or otherwise, in property, during the last seven or eight years?-I consider that they are advancing in property.

In what species of property?-Both in commercial and landed property.

Do you conceive that the majority of middle men, in the south and west of Ireland, have been Catholics or Protestants?—I am not sufficiently acquainted with the districts referred to, to answer that.

Do you consider that the acquisition of landed property, by the Roman Catholics, has been principally in the shape of fee simple, or of leasehold property?-I think the greater proportion in leasehold property, giving fines upon it, and getting perpetuities, rendering it a valuable interest.

Do not you consider that the great depression in agricul tural produce has fallen much more severely on those possessing leasehold interests than on those who are owners in fee? -The proportion of leasehold interests being much greater than the fee, the depression must have affected both, but I think those who have purchased within a few years back have suffered immensely, in common with those who have given large fines on perpetuities.

Do not you think that the advance in agricultural prices during the war, tended to create a great increase of property in the hands of lessees, as contra-distinguished from their landlords?-I think it did.

Do not you think that circumstance operated very much to raise into respectability a great class of Roman Catholics?— I think it did, equally with the Protestants; where Roman Catholics were greater in number a greater number were advanced, where it was less a lesser number were advanced.

You think the depression in those prices has operated in a corresponding manner, but in the opposite direction?-Exactly. Have you any knowledge in what degree Roman Catholics are proprietors of bank stock in Ireland?--No, I cannot form an opinion; but I know that Roman Catholics hold a great quantity of bank stock, and all kinds of government securities.

Can you say whether the Royal Canal was a mode of investing money in which Catholics were engaged?-I know nothing of the Royal Canal, thank God, nor any thing of that

nature.

Do you conceive that the majority of men of capital and of

persons employed in commerce in Dublin, are Protestants or Roman Catholics?-I think it would be a very difficult task for me to state that, as I am not in the habit of asking men their creed; but I know a vast number of Roman Catholics of considerable wealth in Dublin, commanding great capital.

Are the Committee to understand that you do not know the proportion of Protestants and Catholics in Dublin?-I do not know which is the majority of them; I never took pains to ascertain the creed of them.

Is there any merchant in Dublin about whose creed you have any doubts?-There are several whose creed I do not know.

With whom you are acquainted?-Yes; there are several with whom I have intercourse whose creed I do not know at this moment.

In your opinion what would be the effect of improved edu cation and increased wealth on the Catholic body in Ireland? Educate them well, and I apprehend they will sooner see their state of degradation; I do not think any thing can more convince them of their degraded state, than to educate and bring home to their full comprehension, that they are not on a footing with their fellow citizens.

To what class of society do the priests of your part of the country usually belong?-The higher ranks of society in the Queen's County are of the established church.

From what ranks of society are the Catholic priests in your county drawn?-They are generally taken from the humble classes of farmers, but within the last ten or fifteen years the Roman Catholics bishops have been considerably more particular, and they will not accept of those that are not from a better or higher grade of Catholic families.

It is very desirable that they should be drawn from the higher classes ?-It is so considered.

Do not you think, that giving the Roman Catholic clergy a respectable and suitable maintenance would have a great effect in producing that?-Without conceding to the body political emancipation, I am under the impression that it would not be accepted of; nor would it be of any value; the people would look on their clergy with a jealous eye, as more under the influence of those from whom they had money than attentive to their religious duties.

9° die Junii, 1824.

The Reverend Michael Collins called in; and Examined.

You are a Roman Catholic clergyman?—I am.

You reside in the county of Cork and officiate there?—I am parish priest of Skibbereen, in the county of Cork.

How many years have you resided there?-Since March, 1814.

Previously to officiating at Skibbereen as parish priest, were you not officiating in another part of the county in that capacity?—Yes, at Castletownroche and Ballyholy.

The neighbourhood of Castletownroche has been very much disturbed of late?-So I heard.

The part of the county in which you have resided latterly about Skibbereen, has that been disturbed?-No; save only the riot occasioned by Mr. Morrett's tithe exactions, where one police man, and two of the country people and a bailiff were killed.

Was the condition of the peasantry of the lower orders, at the time you left the town of Castletownroche, better or worse than that of the parish to which you have now gone?— Better, I conceive; but then there is a difference in the periods of time; in March, 1814, or the succeeding month, the war ceased, and a depression in the value of land immediately ensued, and a consequent cessation of employment of the poor.

The question refers to the actual condition of the people with respect to comfort-has their comfort in general been higher at Castletownroche than at Skibbereen ?—Yes, the farmers were more substantial; they had larger farms, and the labourers, as far as I could judge, more comfortable and better fed.

They had pretty constant work in that part of the country? -Yes.

Are you well acquainted with the condition of the peasantry in both parishes?—I have had opportunities of knowing it, and have availed myself of them.

What do you consider to have been the causes which led to the late disturbances?-I conceive the causes of discontent are many: first, the sudden depression of value in the produce of land, and the inability of occupiers of land to pay the rents assumed during the war; secondly, the consequence of this inability, the non-employment of the labouring poor;