Does not Calvin write as follows, in the 64th Institute, chapter the 1st," Extra ecclesiæ gremium nulla est speranda peccatorum remissio nec ulla salus?"-I think he does.

Is not the same doctrine taught in the profession of faith of Strasburgh, presented to Charles the Fifth, in 1530 ?—It is taught by most Christian societies.

In that of Switzerland in the year 1566, in that of the Low Countries, and in that of Scotland in 1647 ?—It is so.

What do you consider to be the temporal punishment of sin ?The temporal punishment of sin may be either in this world or in the next; if it be in this world, it may be any temporal visitation from God, or any voluntary infliction of penance by fasting and prayer, and self-denial; and if it be in the world to come, we hold that it is in a middle place, which is neither heaven nor hell; a kind of punishment known only to God, inflicted until the last remnant due to his justice, is purged away.

The temporary punishment of sins in this world, are sicknesses and infirmities ?-Any means that God may think proper to employ to punish his creatures, or any austerities that the penitent himself may, in the spirit of penance, practise.

Can a priest of the Roman Catholic church, by granting an Indulgence, or by withholding an Indulgence, avert or accelerate the wrath of God, as far as the temporary penalty of sin is concerned?-As far as the temporary punishment of sin is concerned, the authorities of the Church can do so by the power intrusted to them by God. The grant of an Indulgence is accompanied, as a condition for obtaining it, by an injunction to perform some act of piety; it is a change of punishment from one species of austerity to another more suitable to human infirmity, a kind of commutation, which commutation is admitted in the canons of the Protestant church; it is admitted, and laid down in Burn's Eccle siastical Law, that there are such things as commutations of penance in the Protestant church.

Can a priest of the Roman Catholic church, by granting or withholding an Indulgence, accelerate the course of a departed soul through Purgatory, or retard it ?-It is our belief, that prayers in this world are of use to accelerate the passage of the soul in purgatory to future bliss; Indulgences, however, cannot reach beyond the present life, except as far as God may be pleased, through the merits of Christ, to accept our prayers for the release of the soul in purgatory; the Church has no power, by right, to grant an Indulgence for the relief of souls in purgatory, except by way of suffrage or prayer; but our prayers, offered through Christ for that purpose, are considered to be efficacious, in such a degree as is known only to God.

Is it the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, that the most

undivided allegiance is due to the King, in temporal matters ?— It is.

Is it the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, that the same undivided allegiance is due to the Pope, in spiritual matters? It is; that allegiance which is due to him as spiritual head, and which is limited by the canons.

That is the definition you would give to the limit of the alle giance due to the Pope ?-Certainly.

According to the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, marriage is a sacrament ?—It is.

Marriage also, the Committee suppose, according to the doctrine of the church, partakes of a civil contract ?—It is also a civil

contract.

There are certain degrees of affinity, within which it is not allowed by the principles of the Roman Catholic religion for parties to marry; but suppose parties do marry within those degrees, is that marriage void, according to the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church ?-If within the prohibited degrees, it is void.

Would the circumstances of that voidance entail penalties upon the parties in civil matters?-By no means; the issue of that marriage would inherit in the same way as if the marriage were wholly valid, because it is the law that decides that the marriage retains all these civil effects that the law gives it.

Would the children be legitimate?-In point of law as heirs. In an ecclesiastical sense, they would not be legitimate Pro They would not be legitimate.

Will you have the goodness to explain to the Committee the penalties, in the ecclesiastical sense, which parties so marrying within the prohibited degrees, would be subjected to? They would be subject to no penalties, that I at present recollect, except the refusal of the administration of the sacrament, as persons living in the guilt of sin.

Supposing a child of such a marriage wished to become a member of the Roman Catholic ministry, would there be any objection to instituting him to the order of priesthood?-There would be an objection, which would prevent his taking orders in our church.

Is there any power to dispense with such penalties?—There is ; the Pope possesses that power.

Does a bishop of the Roman Catholic church possess it?Bishops do not exercise that power in the Roman Catholic church. But under no circumstances, would the children of such marriage be subject to civil penalties?-No civil penalty whatever. Should you, as a prelate of the Catholic church, consider the issue of such marriage as legitimate heirs to the property of the parents ?Most certainly.

With respect, to any of the sentences of our courts, either of civil or ecclesiastical jurisdiction, would you consider that, according to the doctrine of your church, any coactive step could be taken to resist those sentences, or to interfere with them ?---I am not aware that any coactive step could be taken, except those sentences should go, for instance, to dissolve the marriage, which we, in our church, hold to be valid, we would refuse the parties the sacraments of our church.

As to any civil measure?---By no means.

In short, where the law of your church differs from the law of our church, your sanctions are merely of a spiritual nature ?--Merely spiritual.

In case of divorce, the Roman Catholic church does not allow of breaking the matrimonial chain ?---No; our doctrine is, that what God has joined together, man cannot separate; and when once the tie of matrimony is formed, it is only death can dis

solve it.

Suppose parties are divorced by a decree of the civil court, and that either of the parties afterwards wishes for to marry, and makes application to a priest of the Roman Catholic church to marry them, will that priest refuse?---Certainly.

Then if a divorce once takes place, neither of the parties can by possibility enter into the state of marriage ?---Neither could conscientiously enter into the state of marriage; but they can legally, and that marriage would have the same legal effect as a marriage formed with what we call impediments, that is, within the prohibited degrees.

Still it would be the duty of every Catholic priest to refuse to perform the ceremony of that marriage ?---Certainly.

Has the Pope a power of dispensing with that part of the discipline?---By no means; we consider that as decided by the law of God, and the Pope can never dispense with the law of God.

There is a vulgar error, that the kingdom of Ireland is a fief of the popedom; is there any foundation for that assertion?-It has no foundation whatever; it is annexed, and I hope inseparably annexed to Great Britain.

You take a distinction with respect to the differences between the decisions of our ecclesiastical courts and yours, between that class of them which arise from the interpretation of the sense of scripture, and that class of them which arise from a difference between the law of which you judge of the rules of consanguinity? Just so; the one is merely the law of the church, which the head of the church can dispense with; the other we contend to be the law of God, which no earthly power can dispense with.

That law of God, no earthly power can dispense with, is derived from your interpretation of scripture ?--Yes.

You do not conceive that the Pope has any authority to overrule your sense of the true interpretation of scripture ?--Just so. Supposing Catholic Emancipation was carried, should you see any objection to government allowing a stipend to the Catholic priesthood in Ireland?---In the event of Catholic Emancipation being carried, and this arrangement being made a part of the final settlement of the country, I would not see any material objection to the Catholic clergy receiving a stipend.

Should you see any objection to it, supposing Catholic Emancipation was not carried?---Very great objection. I do not think it would be acceptable, either to the people or the clergy.

Supposing such a stipend was agreed upon and granted, under what circumstances should you think that the Catholic clergy would have a claim upon it?-I suppose that the law would regulate the claim they should have; and that it should not be revocable at will, but given, on the one hand, so as to preserve the independence of our church, and on the other, to preserve that degree of subordination which should subsist between the inferior clergy and the prelates of the church.

Should you think it ought to be attached to the different benefices, or given to the individuals?---I think that would be a matter quite of regulation, to which I have not finally made up my mind.

Should you conceive there would be any objection to a certificate of loyalty being required, before such allowance was paid to a clergyman?---Certainly not, if that certificate were to come from the authorities of our church; I think it would be a useful thing to have that certificate of loyalty.

Do 'you conceive there would be any objection to securing the domestic nomination of the bishops in the Roman Catholic church in Ireland ?--I do not conceive there would be any objection to it; I think rather it would be an advantage.

In whom is the nomination now vested?---At present it is vested in the Pope; but he does not exercise it, except at the recommendation of some portion of the Irish clergy.

Should you think it an objectionable measure, to prevent any foreigner from being appointed to a see in the Catholic church in Ireland?--By no means.

Would you extend that to all benefices in the Catholic church? -To all benefices.

Should you conceive there to be any objection to the Crown having a power of interfering in any way, directly or indirectly, in the change of the lower clergy from one benefice to another?-I would conceive that such interference would be liable to great objections.

You would not conceive there would be any objection, on the

members of the Roman Catholic hierarchy being promoted from one rank to another, that the same certificate of loyalty and domestic nomination should accompany the change which accompanied the first appointment?--I think it would not be liable to any objection.

Do you think there would be any objection to letting the State have perfect assurance, that the person to be appointed or promoted in the Roman Catholic church, had not been educated out of foreign funds, or out of funds at the disposal of a foreign government?---I do not think it would be liable to any serious objection. I should not like to give up wholly the foreign education, because it is calculated to excite a kind of emulation which I think useful.

The question does not apply to foreign education, but to education provided at the expense of foreign states?---I know there are some funds of that kind at present applied. I am not aware that any bad consequences follow from the education received from them; for instance, I was myself educated upon a foreign fund in Spain, and that fund was wholly under the control of the King of Spain.

If it should be thought advisable, for the security of the State, that that practice should cease, and if an equivalent were given in this country out of domestic funds, do you think there would be any objection to a perfect assurance being given, that parties to be appointed or promoted in the Catholic church, should not have been educated or supported out of any such foreign fund?--I am sure there would not.

Are there not at present some funds that were originally created by gifts of Irish families, that are at present subsisting in France, and claimed to be under the control of the government of France?There are.

To what extent do you suppose those funds may go?--I cannot exactly say, but possibly about an annual income of 70,000 francs.

About 3000l. a year?---Yes.

Have you any reason to believe, that the French government, or any persons acting under their authority, have latterly been expressing any interest about that fund?-No, on the contrary, the present king is giving more power over that fund to the people in this country than was given before; he has appointed a president at the recommendation of the clergy of this country.

Do they claim to keep up an intercourse with Ireland, with respect to the management of this fund?--I do not think they claim a right to keep up an intercourse, or that they express a wish so to do; they consider these funds to be placed under their guardianship, and they do not allow them to be removed from France; they continue under their trusteeship; but latterly they