To what authority can you refer to shew the true doctrine of the Catholic church, with regard to Justification ?-The Council of Trent most distinctly.

What is the doctrine of the Catholic church, with respect to Indulgences ?-The authorities of the Catholic church have, in virtue of the power of the keys committed to them, a power to remit a certain portion of the temporal punishment due to sin, after the guilt of sin has been remitted; but in no case can Indulgences have effect, till the person is first justified and reconciled with God.

Are indulgences ever granted for anticipated guilt?—Never ; there can be no permission to commit sin of any kind.

The Committee have before them a book, entitled, "A Protestant Catechism, shewing the principal Errors of the Church of Rome; printed in Dublin, for Ann Watson, in the year 1822;" the Committee will read to you some of the Questions and Answers, and ask your opinion upon them. In page 9, there is this Question, "How do the Papists treat those whom they call Heretics ?" The Answer is, "They hold, that faith is not to be kept with Heretics, and that the Pope can absolve subjects from their oaths of allegiance to their sovereigns?"-To one part of that Question I have already answered, the Pope cannot absolve subjects from their oaths of allegiance; to the other I answer, with equal distinctness, it is no part of our doctrine, that faith is not to be kept with Heretics, in that sense in which faith is understood to be fidelity to engagements; we are bound to observe our oath, our pledge, our contract, our agreement, with persons differing from us in religion, in the same way as we are with one another.

Is there any sense, in which it is the doctrine of the Catholic church, that faith is not to be kept with Heretics?-Only in this sense, that our faith, that is, divine faith; our code of faith is not the same as that of Protestants; so that we do not hold spiritual communion with them.

Then in the ordinary acceptation of the words, it is no part of the doctrine of your Church, that faith is not to be kept with Heretics?-No part of the doctrine of our church. I merely made that distinction, lest I should be understood as applying my answer to religious faith; to the code of religious belief.

The common acceptation of the words, keeping faith with people, is not that you have community of faith with them, but that you keep your engagements with them?-In that sense I have answered distinctly.

Do not all Roman Catholics, in the oaths that they are required to take, for qualifying, and enjoying relief from the penal code of Queen Anne, and other reigns, swear, "I reject and de

test, as an unchristian and impious principle, that faith is not to be kept with Heretics ?"-Certainly.

That oath is willingly taken by all Roman Catholics? With out the least hesitation; most willingly.

In page 11, there is this Question and Answer, "Do the Papists pray to any other beings, besides Almighty God?" The Answer is, "They pray to Angels and Saints, to intercede for them, and save them by their merits." What have you to observe upon that?-We pray to saints, and we ask the prayers of saints, in the same sense in which St. Paul asked the prayers of his fellow men; and we confide in the prayers of saints, just as St. Paul confided, that the prayers of Philemon would contribute to restore him to liberty. Whenever we pray to the saints, we merely ask them, to present our prayers, through Christ, to the throne of grace, in the same way that St. Paul asked his fellow men to pray for him, that speech might be given him; and that he might preach with confidence, the mystery of the Gospel.

Do Roman Catholics worship saints as God?-By no means; we honour them, as the friends of God; and we honour God, in them, as they are his friends, whom he loves, and in whom his grace has triumphed.

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In page 12, there is this Question, " May we not worship the Blessed Virgin, the Mother of our Lord ?" and the Answer is, Though the Papists address many more prayers to her than to Almighty God himself, yet there is neither command nor example in the word of God to support such worship; and she is but a creature, it is downright idolatry?"We never address any prayer to the Virgin Mary, to give us anything of her own; for she has nothing of her own to give; all that she has is the gift of God; and when we pray to her, we merely ask her to present our petitions, through her Son, as I mentioned before, to the throne of mercy and grace: this we conceive, is not idolatry, nor anything approaching idolatry; for it does not give to any creature the worship that is due to God.

Is it a doctrine of the Catholic church, that promises or engagements made with Heretics, are in any degree, or under any circumstances, less binding upon the Catholic who makes them, than promises or engagements made with a Roman Catholic would be? -In no degree, and under no circumstances less binding, than oaths and engagements made to Catholics.

The religious faith therefore of the person with whom the engagement or promise is made, cannot in any degree affect the obligation of the promise which has been made?—Not in the

least.

What authority has Gother amongst Catholics, as a writer

upon the Catholic religion?—He is considered a very zealous and correct divine; he is very much in use amongst Catholics.

And his authority is received as sound?-His authority is considerable as an individual; the authority of no divine is paramount.

In order to remove the prejudices of Protestants, Gother published a work, entitled, A Vindication of Roman Catholics, as also their declaration, affirmation, commination, shewing their abhorrence of the following tenets, commonly laid at their door; and they here oblige themselves, that if the ensuing curses be added to those appointed to be read on the first day of Lent, they will seriously and heartily answer Amen to them all: First, it is stated, "Cursed is he that commits idolatry; that prays to images or relics, or worships them for God;" do you acknowledge the accuracy of that doctrine ?-Fully; I do not like much the idea of cursing, but there is hardly any language strong enough to express the abhorrence I feel, of the doctrine that is there denounced.

Second: "Cursed is every goddess worshipper, that believes the Virgin Mary to be any more than a creature; that honours her, worships her, or puts his trust in her, more than in God; that believes her above her Son, or that she can in any thing command him?—I fully concur in the rejection of that impious doctrine.

Third, "Cursed is he that believes the Saints in heaven, to be his redeemers, that prays to them as such, or that gives God's honour to them, or to any creature whatsoever ?"-I repeat the

same answer.

Fourth," Cursed is he that worships any breaden god, or makes gods of the empty elements of bread and wine?"-I concur fully, in renouncing in the strongest language which can be used, that impious doctrine.

Fifth, "Cursed is he that believes priests can forgive sins, whether the sinner repents or not, or that there is any power in earth or in heaven, that can forgive sins without a hearty repentance and serious purpose of amendment?"-I consider the doctrine wicked and impious.

Sixth, "Cursed is he that believes that there is authority in the Pope, or any other, that can give leave to commit sins, or that can forgive him his sins for a sum of money?"-I repeat the

same answer.

Then the thirteenth, "Cursed is he that believes that the Pope can give to any, upon any account whatsoever, a dispensation to lie or swear falsely, or that it is lawful for any at the last hour, to protest himself innocent in case he be guilty?”—I reject the doctrine with great abhorrence.

Will you be good enough to describe to the Committee, the nature of Heresy, according to the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church ?-The obstinate belief of error which has been condemned by the Catholic church, is called Heresy; any contumacious error in faith, any obstinate denial of an article of the Catholic faith, is called Heresy in the ecclesiastical sense of the word; we at present use the word heretic very sparingly; we choose rather, as it is an offensive word, to say, "our dissenting brethren," or "our separated brethren," or something of that kind; the original import of the word heretic, is merely a chooser of his own religion.

Is it a doctrine of the Roman Catholic church, that there is no salvation for heretics?-The doctrine of the Catholic church, in that respect, is very much the doctrine of the Established church, and that of every other Christian society, who hold that man owes to God the homage of his understanding as well as that of his will, and that therefore we are as much bound to believe the things He has revealed, as to do the things He has ordered; and therefore any one who, through his own fault, does not submit to the faith which God has revealed, and ordered to be believed, we consider as a sinner, like any other sinner, and, of course, to be treated as such; it is our belief with regard to ourselves, as it is the belief of the members of the Established church with regard to them, that ours is the Faith revealed by Christ, and ordered to be believed; that faith, respecting which he has himself said, "He who shall not believe, shall be condemned." We wish all mankind to be saved, but we are not to make a religion according to our own wishes; we must submit to the decrees of Providence, that has arranged it otherwise; and since the Gospel of Christ requires faith, as an essential requisite for salvation, we must bow with reverence to that decree; we cannot make a Gospel through a mistaken liberality, and lead people into error, by telling them they are safe in choosing a religion for themselves, such as may appear best to them, except they employ the usual means to arrive at a knowledge of that faith which God requires of them. With respect to Protestants, however, I must say this: we do not hold that all who are not united externally to the Catholic church, are to be lost; we even hope that many who are attached to other bodies of Christians, may (not having a sufficient opportunity of becoming acquainted with the true Faith) be treated with mercy before the Supreme Judge. All Protestants who are baptized, become, by the very act of their baptism, members of the Church of Christ, children of God, and heirs of everlasting life; and if they die at any period before they lose that innocence which is restored to them in baptism, and their consequent title to heaven, they will of course obtain that immortal kingdom.

At what period they may lose that title, or whether they lose it at all, it is not for us to judge; it is the business of God, who sees into the secrets of hearts, and who knows the opportunities which each individual has to arrive at a knowledge of the Faith which He has revealed, and who will judge His creatures with mercy. A person baptized, growing up in ignorance of what we consider the true faith, and without the means of arriving at it, if he do not commit any other grievous sin to exclude him from heaven, will reach the glory of God's kingdom with as much certainty as any one externally united to our body; that is our belief with regard to external unions. We hold, that faith is necessary to salvation, because God has so declared it; He has declared, that they who do not believe, shall be condemned. With regard to individuals, we pronounce no judgment, because it is He alone who can decide upon the sentiments of a man's heart. I beg to add with regard to Protestants in particular, that in their infancy they are rendered, by baptism, heirs to everlasting life; and that nothing can deprive them of the title thus received, to the inheritance of heaven, but some actual sin; whether that be the sin of refusing, through their own fault, to accept the faith that God has revealed. or any other actual sin. I believe the Protestant church teaches something like that in its 18th Article, which pronounces them accursed, who will say, "that every man shall be saved by the law or sect which he professeth, so that he be diligent to frame his life according to that law, and the light of nature;" and in the 8th Article, it adopts the three creeds, one of which is the Athanasian, in which the doctrine of exclusive salvation is very distinctly marked.

Can you state the actual sin by which a person, once baptized, loses his title to heaven ?-Any grievous transgression of the law of God, whether it be a violation of faith or of morals.

The Committee find, in the abstract of the Douay Catechism, a question is asked, "What is necessary to save a man?” the first thing answered is, "Faith ?"-St. Paul gave the answer before, when he said, "Without faith, it is impossible to please God."

Then the next question that follows, is, "What is the opposite of this Faith?" which is followed by the answer, "Heresy; the Committee would like to know, if possible, the nature of that heresy which is the opposite of saving faith, according to the question in the abstract of the Douay Catechism?-Any obstinate error in matters of faith, is called heresy; any culpable and obstinate error in matters of faith...

Is not the non-participation of the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church, considered heresy ?-When that non-participation is culpable, which God only can know.