assist in the erection and supporting of schools, to feed a considerable number of the poor, and in fact, if it were not for some help which I occasionally receive from friends, I could not afford to keep a house or a servant; however, there are a greater number of poor living about me than about most others, and my income is not so considerable as that of many other bishops in the kingdom.

Is the same mode of paying the bishops adopted in all parts of Ireland?—I believe it is the same in nearly all, except that in some dioceses, particularly in the south of Ireland, the bishops receive something like a contribution from the priest, out of the fees he receives at marriages; there is no such usage, however, in the diocese where I live, or in that of Dublin or Ossory.

Is the amount of fees paid on marriages, in the other dioceses, as far as you are informed, the same as that you state to prevail in your own diocese?-I think in most of the dioceses it is somewhat similar; but in the dioceses in the south of Ireland, besides the marriage fees, there is a usage of what they call A Wedding Cake; I have heard of that, but I am only acquainted with it by hearsay. The nature of this usage is, that a cake is distributed in small pieces amongst the people who assist at the wedding, and each person makes an offering when he receives the cake: this sometimes amounts to a considerable sum, at other times it is very trivial; but we have no such thing among us, excepting a few parishes; it is chiefly confined to the south of Ireland, but where it prevails, it is a source of very considerable emolument.

Have you not heard that in many instances the amount of that is very considerable ?-I have heard that in many instances the amount is very considerable.

To what amount have you ever heard?The greatest amount that I have ever heard was 401.; I have heard that it did amount to that sum in one instance,

What is the amount of fee on a burial ?In some instances there is an office celebrated for the repose of the soul of the deceased; this office in my diocese cannot be celebrated unless at least six clergymen attend, then the parish priest is entitled to get 17. and each of the assistant priests 10s. each, and if the person be poor only one priest attends to perform the service; at each service he generally gets 10s. and if it be the parish priest half-a-guinea, and sometimes 15s.

Is the saying of masses for the repose of the souls of the dead, a considerable source of income also?It is on account of saying mass and assisting at the funeral that the priest receives this contribution which I have mentioned.

From what fees do you conceive the parish priest receives the larger part of his income; from the fees upon marriage, baptisms and burials, or from the Christmas and Easter fees? From the Christmas and Easter fees much the larger part.

Can you state the average income of a parish priest in your diocese? I could very nearly. I have classed the parishes, and I have caused a return to be made to me of the income of each; there were some large parishes in the diocese, all of which, except one or two, have become vacant since my appointment, and those I have divided; there are then at present, I believe, four parishes where the priest's income is about 4007, a year; there are, as I recollect, (I may be mistaken) fourteen parishes where the parish priest's income exceeds 2007. by something; in all the other parishes of the diocese Į think it is less, and may amount to from 100l. to 2001,

How many parishes are there ?-Forty-two.

How is the appointment to a Roman Catholic parish ar ranged?-When the incumbent dies, the bishop has the power of appointing any priest of the diocese to succeed to him; we have two classes of clergymen, the one are the incumbents or parish priests, and the other the coadjutors or assistant priests; when a parish becomes vacant, if it be a place where we wish a man of experience and information and pious ha bits of life to reside, and that we have not a person of this description amongst the curates, we take him from some other parish where he has shewn himself to be possessed of those qualities, and we appoint him to the vacant living; but if it be a parish where a person not specially gifted is necessary, we take from amongst the curates some man who has laboured for several years, and whose morals have been good, and who has a capacity for giving instruction in public, and place him there; but if a curate should at any time have been immoral or not be capable of preaching, we leave him in the rank of curate all his life time.

Supposing an arrangement were made for the payment, by the State, of the Roman Catholic Priesthood, it would proba bly be desirable to have a gradation of salary proportioned to the extent of the parish, and the duties to be performed in it -Unquestionably it would be necessary to have a gradation but I think that gradation should not so much be made ac cording to the extent of the parish, and the duties to be per formed, as to the parish having within it a town, or being a place where a man of better information, and of more im proved habits should reside; those who live in towns are ex posed to more expense, for they must dress better; they must pay a high rent for a residence, and they are obliged occa

sionally to entertain their brother clergymen or others coming that way, and therefore they require a larger income. Now it may be, that in a country part, suppose a mountainous tract, the parish is of greater extent, and requires more laborious duties to be performed; but here the priest is very retired; the priest is exposed to little or no expense; and though he has more duty, he is a man of less conspicuous character, and one whom I should postpone to the other description of persons; there should be a classification of them, but that classification should not be regulated by the extent of the parish and the duty to be performed, but by the local situation of the town or place.

Supposing that classification to be established upon the principle which you have last adverted to, do you think it would be absolutely necessary to leave to the bishop of the diocese, the exclusive determination as to transferring an individual from one parish that stood low in the classification, to another that stood higher in the amount of salary?-Unquestionably so; unless all subordination were done away, as well as all power of rewarding merit and good morals; for unless the Catholic church were in some degree republicanized, it would be necessary to have a power left in the bishop, I cannot say vested in him, because he now has it, to translate individuals.

Excluding all interference, direct or indirect, on the part of the Crown or the State?-Literally so; the Crown would be annoyed if it were to be occupied with the little detail of our business; this detail would not be worth looking after, and would be very troublesome; besides, it would be impossible for any man in the government to be acquainted with the private life of individuals, or to know who was fit or who was unfit to be appointed; for instance, I had, whilst professor of theology, the care of educating the greater part of the clergymen of the diocese, and I am still obliged to inquire into their theological knowledge, to ascertain the manner in which they discharge their duties; to receive the reports of the rural vicars, as to their morals and conduct; so that I know as intimately the life and habits, and conduct of every individual of the clergy under me, as a father can be acquainted with the life and habits of his own son. It is this knowledge which enables me to place each of them in that situation for which he is particularly adapted; and it must be very clear to the Committee, that no government, or agent of government, could have this information; and therefore no such agent could be as competent as I am to appoint these men to places or offices.

Should the government have the power of promotion ?—I

should advert to the two classes of priests we employ; the one are parish priests, the other are coadjutors; we have an arbitrary power in us to remove from his situation a curate, but we cannot suspend him without a canonical cause; that is, we cannot take from him the right of saying mass, unless upon cause shewn; but the parish priests have a title to their office, and from that office we cannot remove them, unless upon a charge defined by law being proved against them, and then we pass sentence upon them, and either reprimand them, suspend them for a time, or suspend them altogether.

Where is that cause tried?-By the bishop.

In your opinion, does not every reason for making the provision for the clergy of the Roman Catholic church inalienable, apply to the smallest parish in Ireland ?-Unless you exempt the parochial clergy, in some degree from the authority of the bishop, to which they are now subject, you should make their receiving such salary depend upon their bringing with them to the person who pays them, a certificate from the bishop; that I would think, indispensable; and except in that respect, the provision should, in my opinion, be inalienable in every parish.

When you say that the salary should be irrevocable, you mean as attached to the station ?-As attached to the station.

Will you be good enough to tell the Committee, what portion of the priests' income you think is derived from the fees upon marriage, baptism, and burial in the case of the largest living in your diocese; for instance, the income of which is 4001. a year, what portion of that is derived from the fees upon marriage, baptism, and burial?-I should think in that living from burials, marriages, and baptisms, about 100%. a year would be derived.

Which fees you think it would not be advisable to abolish by a law, accompanying the payment of the Roman Catholic clergy? Those fees would be greatly reduced, if there were a provision made for the clergy, because the people then seeing that the clergy had a support, would give something upon those occasions, but that something would be very small. For instance at marriages, the greater part of the people at present give something; but I am sure, if there were a provision for the clergy, and that the people saw they were not totally dependent upon those contributions, there are only the wealthy portion of them who would give any thing at marriages. The same I might say of baptisms; and also, with some degree of limitation, of funerals. So that in that parish, where the fees derived from baptisms, funerals, and marriages, may have amounted, during the last year to 100l. I am very confi

dent, that if a provision for the clergy were made, those contributions would be diminished by one-half.

Do you think, by reason of the certainty of the payment, the certainty growing out of the payment of the clergy by the state, the parish priest would be more satisfied to receive a reduced income than that which he now is in the habit of collecting ?

Upon my word, I do not consider myself at all competent to answer as to the feelings of the priests; for, on money matters, I am a very bad judge of other men's feelings; I feel no interest myself about money; but I know, that of the Ca- tholic clergy, there are some who do; I should not like to answer for them.

As in any arrangement that might be made, it must be left entirely discretionary to the party, whether he would receive it or not, could the bishops compel the clergymen of their diocese to receive it ?-The bishops could compel them indirectly, because the bishops could make a rule, such as I before mentioned, prohibiting generally throughout their dioceses, priests from receiving the individual contributions to which I before alluded; and no priest could, after such regulation had been made by the bishop, continue to receive it within his diocese, so that it would not depend upon the will of the priests.

Might not the bishop, at the time he appoints to a living, when the possessor of it has died off, appoint the new incumbent upon the condition of his receiving this reduced income, which should be settled by legislative provision ?-Yes, he could, indeed.

Would it be a great relief for the peasantry to be relieved from a double impost, the payment of the clergy of two persuasions ?-Unquestionably.

Have you any idea of the actual number of parish priests and coadjutors in Ireland ?—I believe the number of parish priests are about one thousand, and, at an average, I should suppose that each of them has a coadjutor. In some parishes, the parish priest has no coadjutor, in others, the parish priest may have two.

Äre not the parishes in the Roman Catholic church, generally speaking, the same as those in the Protestant ?—I might say generally so; but not universally by any means.

Are there various unions of parishes in the Catholic church? Various unions.

Have you ever made a calculation as to the probable amount of expense that would accrue in making this legislative provision?—No, I could not possibly; because I could not know what it would be in the contemplation of government to give to each; I have never turned it in my mind, I have only heard it spoken of since I came to London.