them, because when they go to assist at mass, they can also pray for the souls of their friends who are interred thereabouts; so that one feeling as it were counteracts the other, and you scarcely know which the people would prefer.

You have stated, that you thought the Burial Bill might be modified so as to meet the views of both parties; will you have the goodness to state how you think it might be modified?-At present we are required by the Burial Bill to obtain from the rector permission to have the burial-service performed, and he is to fix the time when it is to be performed; this is attended with great inconvenience; in the first place the clergyman might not be at home, or if at home, he might not be prepared to give an answer; and in the second place, if he were not an agreeable man, (and unhappily in Ireland individuals of every class and persuasion are sometimes in ill humour with each other,) he might fix a time which would be very inconvenient. All this could be remedied, if we were entitled by law to bury our dead in the church-yard, by giving notice to the sexton or person having the care of the churchyard, suppose twelve hours, or any reasonable time before the interment. It might also be enacted, that we should not bury our dead there during the time of divine service, or for some time before it or after it; that simple regulation would make the Bill, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable to the Catholics; nor do I think it would trench in any way upon the rights or prerogatives or honours of the Protestant clergy.

Would you be disposed to leave a negative to the Protestant rector ?-No; because I conceive all the parishioners have a right to be interred in their parish church-yard.

Is it not the practice in Ireland, for the funeral of a Roman Catholic, even of the lowest class, to be attended by a very great number of his relatives and friends?-It was rather than is the practice at present; for at present the people are throwing aside some of their ancient usages, and, amongst the rest, that of attending wakes and funerals in great numbers, though the attendance is still considerable.

Would not it be very difficult to place any restriction by law, upon the number of attendants at a funeral?—They never attend in such numbers as to cause inconvenience to the parson, when they go the church-yard; for all the churchyards are sufficiently spacious to contain and to accommodate, if I might so say, double the number that go; I do not think any inconvenience could arise from the number which might go into the church-yard.

You have stated, that you would not be disposed to leave any negative to the clergyman, as a matter of right, to refuse

permission to perform the service of the Catholic church in the church-yard; but should not you think it convenient to leave him a negative in point of time, seeing that two burial services, one Protestant and the other Catholic, might come at the same moment; or there might be some other good reason why the service should not be performed at the time demanded?-I should be satisfied that he would have such right of negative, provided he expressed a cause; because then it would appear, that the right was not resorted to through a motive of causing inconvenience, but through one of real necessity. But, as I conceive a right to exist on the part of the parishioners of being buried there, when this right is to be at all limited, I should like that the reason why it would be so limited were clearly expressed by the person putting the limitation.

Is not the feeling of attachment, on the part of the Irish peasantry, very strong to particular burying-grounds; which particular burying-grounds are frequently those attached to Protestant churches?-I think there is a strong attachment, in the minds of many Roman Catholics, to particular burialgrounds; but I think, in general, those are not burial-grounds attached to churches where service is actually performed.

Still the case might sometimes happen?-It might sometimes happen, but not generally.

Do you recollect an instance, in which a Protestant clergyman has refused permission, either before or since the passing of what is called the Burial Bill?-No application having been made to them within the diocese where I live, of course they could not have refused; I may have heard reports of applications being made, and refusals being given; but those reports I do not attend to; I cannot say 1 gave them credit.

Were any obstacles at any time, to your knowledge, thrown in the way of the celebration of Catholic funerals, by any of the Protestant ministers, previous to the passing of the Bill? -No such obstacles have been opposed in the diocese where I live, because, in that diocese, we have not at any time performed the burial-service within the church-yard; but, were we disposed to have performed it, I do not think, from the general temper of the Protestant clergy in that diocese, that we would have met with any obstacle; for, at their hands, we have generally received kind treatment, and have had no dispute with them upon such subjects.

In other parts of Ireland, are you aware whether the Catholic ministers have contented themselves with celebrating the service in the house of the deceased, or in other places than the burial-grounds ?—I have not heard that in any one

case the Catholic clergy were not satisfied with performing the burial-service in their own chapel, or in the house of the deceased; and, wherever impediments were thrown in their way, or confusion created, it was upon their reciting the prayers that I mentioned before, at the time of the interment, and not upon their attempting to perform the burial-service, which I believe truly they do not attempt to perform in any part of Ireland.

On those occasions, do the Catholic clergy attend in vestments, or in any peculiar pontifical dress?-They wear no kind of vestments, or clerical dress; they appeared in short clothes, such as I now wear, or in clothes very like to them. When we do perform the funeral service according to the rite of our own church, we (that is, clergymen) wear a black sutan, with a white surplice over it, and over that a stole.

Are there any instances, or have there been any within your knowledge, where the clergy have claimed a right of entering the church, for the celebration of a funeral ?—I have never heard of such.

Then, in instances where the corpse of a Catholic was to be interred within the church, in a vault for instance, or within the church, as is the case with many families, the Catholic clergyman would not claim a rite of reciting the psalm or hymn, according to the usage of his own church, within the church? I should suppose not within the church.

Have any instances occurred within your knowledge, where the time of the celebration of divine service, according to the Protestant rite, has been chosen as the time also for a celebration of a Catholic funeral in the church-yard ?-Not one.

In case of a Bill of Divorce passing, to enable a Catholic to marry again, would you consider that valid or able to hold effect? I would consider it as valid, according to the law of the country; and I would consider the issue of such marriage as entitled to such property as might devolve upon them; and I would do all in my power, as a clergyman, to preserve such rights to them; but I would not consider the children of such marriage legitimate in the ecclesiastical sense.

In case an arrangement were made by the government, for paying stipends to the Catholic clergy, on the understanding and the regulations mentioned by you in a former answer, is it your opinion that the Catholic clergy would decline receiving the stipend now paid to them voluntarily by their flocks, marriage fees, baptism and burial fees excepted?-The Catholic clergy are always amenable to such regulations as are prescribed for them by their own prelates; and, if such provision were anade, I think the prelates might be called on or

invited to make such regulations for their clergy, as would , prevent the latter from collecting or requiring, or receiving such contributions as have been mentioned, always excepting burial fees, offerings at baptisms and marriages.

Then the only security that the Catholic flock could receive for not being called upon by the Catholic clergy, to pay those which are called voluntary fees, would depend upon the influence and the opinion of the Catholic prelates ?—Yes, the influence or opinion; but not these alone, because the Catholic prelates will have it in their power to make it obligatory on their clergy not to require, and even not to receive such contributions; but I can also add, that if the Catholic prelates neglected to make such regulations, the people, seeing that the clergy had a sufficient maintenance without their contributions, would withhold such contributions from them, not universally but generally.

Is it your opinion that the Catholic prelates would think it right to make such a regulation ?-I can only speak for myself; I would think it right to do so, and I would do so.

Do you think that it would be, in the eye of the Roman Catholic church, competent to the legislature to enact, that no such offerings should be made?-I think not.

That is a question of church discipline, which you think ought to be reserved for the prelates of Ireland?—Yes.

Would you not think it a just cause for withholding the stipend granted by law, if such offerings were received?—I mentioned, when before spoken to of the stipend, that I did not think the clergy, I spoke only as an individual, but I said that I myself would not receive any stipend whatever, unless it was secured to me by law; now, if that were the case, how could it be withdrawn when a person received those contributions. There should be a special provision, and a tribunal created, wherein the supposed offence should be tried, and there would be much machinery attending it; I would think it therefore a matter of regulation which ought not to be made by law, but which ought to be made through the other medium I have been just speaking of.

Would there be any difficulty in allowing an information to be made before the usual courts of law, of such offerings being received by any Catholic clergyman, and on such charge being proved, that the stipend should be withheld ?I think it could be done; but I think it would not be a good way of proceeding in the matter, because the other mode is very simple, and would be very effectual.

Are the dues on baptisms, marriages, and funerals, in their amount, voluntary or otherwise; that is, is the individual

obliged to pay a fee of a certain amount, according to his situation in life, on each of those occasions; or is the amount of it left to his own option?-There is almost in every diocese in Ireland, a sum fixed more by usage than by a positive regulation; as to the sum to be paid when a marriage is celebrated, a pauper pays nothing at all; a person in little better circumstances pays, for instance, 5s.; one a little more advanced in circumstances, may pay 10s., very often 16s. 3d., sometimes a guinea; I do not know that in any diocese in Ireland, any person, of whatsoever rank he may be, whether rich or poor, can be obliged, by usage, to pay more than a guinea; but it often happens that an opulent person being married, gives more than that to the priest.

Is the party obliged not to give less than a certain sum ?— No; he can withhold all, if he pleases.

Will you state from what sources the income of a Catholic' priest is derived?-The contributions by individuals residing within his parish, at particular stated seasons of the year, twice in the year.

Is the sum at each period defined and known?-Not defined; take, for instance, the head of a family who is a farmer, suppose, and whose family may consist of six or eight persons, all of whom are to be attended by the priest, such farmer pays an English shilling, which is thirteen-pence in Ireland; sometimes he gives two shillings, and if he be a person in better circumstances, that is, wealthier and more substantial, he may give 10s. about Christmas, and 10s. also at Easter; there are very few who give more.

Will you tell the Committee how the Catholic prelates are paid? We hold one parish, sometimes two; and we employ clergymen to perform the ordinary duties in those, we ourselves labouring to assist them as much as we can. Besides that, we receive from each clergyman in the diocese, once a-year, a certain contribution; for instance, I hold parishes, one in Carlow, and the other in Tullow, in the county of Carlow; I keep three curates employed in each of those parishes, whom I am obliged to pay, and the little that remains after they are supported, I receive myself; in addition to that, at Easter or thereabout, I receive from each of the parish priests in the diocese, I think about three guineas, and from each of the curates about one, and the sum total of my income derived from those sources is generally between 4501. and 500l. a-year; at the same time, I may be permitted to state to the Committee, that the income of a bishop is charged with very heavy incumbrances, considering its quantity, for I' am obliged to contribute to every charitable institution, to

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