with which he has nothing to do; we can receive our support from any one that gives it to us, and of course we could receive it from his Majesty out of the goods of the state.

Supposing the receipt of a provision from the state, were accompanied, as it must be, by an abandonment of any claim upon the parishioners, would it be possible to abandon that claim upon the parishioners, without the consent of the Pope? -Certainly it would.

You say the fees upon baptism and upon marriage, now payable to the priests of the Roman Catholic church, could be abandoned by them, without having the previous consent of the Pope? They can be abandoned by them, without the consent of the Pope, but there are offerings made at marriages, baptisms, and at the burial of the dead, which are a usage of the church so ancient, that I do think the clergy would not resign them; those at present are much higher than they need be, and though they are called voluntary, they are not, strictly speaking, so; those, however, are not the only or the principal dues or contributions by which the clergy are supported, there are other contributions given individually by the parishioners, which constitute the chief support of the priesthood. The contributions of this latter kind could be given up by the clergy, without consulting any one, and even the voluntary oblations at marriages and baptisms could, in my opinion, be relinquished by them; but those latter, I think they would not relinquish, because they are as old almost as christianity itself, and they exist in every church of whatsoever kind, in every nation with which I happen to be acquainted. But the other dues, the individual contributions from the parishioners at stated times of the year, could be given up, it would be desirable that they should be given up, and the clergy might give them up without any reference or communication whatever upon the subject, with Rome.

You do not think it would be desirable, in any event, to remit altogether the fees upon the performance of the rites of the church? Upon all rites of the church, except baptisms, marriages, and the burial of the dead.

Those you would retain?-Those I would retain, because they are an universal custom; and I do not see why our church should be the only one in the world that would give up trifling contributions, which are given in every other church throughout Christendom.

By what authority are those contributions, of which you last spoke-namely, the fees upon the ceremonies of marriage and baptism, regulated?—They are regulated chiefly by usage; they are sometimes defined by a statute made by the bishop;

for instance, in the diocese in which I reside, I found those contributions existing generally; but there was no uniform rule, whereby they could be regulated; and I thought it better for the poor, and also I thought I should best consult the character and interest of the clergy, by reducing them, in some degree, to rule; I therefore regulated what they should be in most cases, and the manner in which they should be collected; in order also to prevent any thing like harsh treatment of the poor by the clergy, I prohibited, under pain of suspension, any clergyman from withholding his ministry from any person, rich or poor, on account of dues or emoluments; so that the office of the priest must first be discharged, and then the individual gives what is prescribed by usage, or by the letter of the statute.

The payment in all the parishes in the diocese, of which you are the Roman Catholic prelate, is uniform ?--I may say it is uniform; there may be some deviations from it; but they are very few.

In amount is it uniform?-When I say uniform, I should say there is a kind of scale, because the poor man pays nothing, the man in better circumstances pays something, and the man whose condition is still more improved, gives a little

more.

If temporalities (by which is meant a pecuniary provision payable by the Crown) were attached to Roman Catholic sees, and to Roman Catholic parishes in Ireland, would it be inconsistent with the doctrine or discipline of the Roman Catholic church, to admit any interference on the part of the Protestant sovereign of this country in the appointments?—It would be inconsistent with the discipline of the Roman Catholic church to admit, in such cases, the interference of a Protestant sovereign in such appointments.

Would that arrangement, in your opinion, be inconsistent with the discipline of the Roman Catholic church, even if it had the sanction of the Pope ?-Were he to give his sanction to it, I think we should oppose the matter here. I think he would not sanction it; but were he to do so, we should not agree to it; for my part, I would not: I should resign the office that I hold, rather than assent to such a thing; I would first remonstrate against it, I would remonstrate a second time against it, and if this were not sufficient to ward it off, I should certainly resign my office; and I hope there is not a bishop in Ireland who would not do the same.

You are no doubt aware, that arrangements of that nature, in cases where there are temporalities attached to preferments in the Roman Catholic church, but where the sovereign is not

a member of that church, are admitted in some countries in Europe? I know of arrangements of that kind, though I do not know the nature of them exactly; but I know there are some arrangements that seem to be of that kind, which have been lately entered into between the Pope and the Emperor of Russia, and also between the Pope and the King of Prussia, and I believe between the Pope and some of the lesser States in Germany, being Protestant; and also that there has been a treaty carried on for some time, between the Pope and the King of the Netherlands, having for its object such an arrangement as has been mentioned; but such treaty I believe at present is suspended, if not entirely broken off. I am not acquainted with the circumstances of the Russian empire, nor with those of the kingdom of Prussia, and therefore I can give no information as to the conduct of the Pope, in entering into such arrangement; but knowing the state of my own country, and having the religious feelings that I have, though such an arrangement were to be considered practicable by the Pope, and even wise, I should find it my duty, as an individual, to act as I have mentioned.

By interference, you mean all interference direct or indirect? I mean all interference direct or indirect. Were the sovereign of this realm a Catholic, I should be very averse to his having the appointment of bishops vested in him; but his being of a different religion, makes me think that I could not consistently at all, with the principles of my religion, consent to his having any right to interfere directly or indirectly with the appointment of bishops.

Will you be good enough to explain the state of the law of the Roman Catholic church in Ireland, with respect to marriages?-Marriages have so many relations, that I cannot well understand in what sense I am to answer that question.

In what authority exists the power of dissolving a marriage? We have no authority whatever to dissolve a marriage; once validly contracted, we recognise in no power on earth, Pope or Council, or the Church collective, any authority whatever, or power to dissolve a marriage.

Not in case of adultery ?-Every bishop has the power, upon adultery being proved, to order a separation, quoad thorum et habitationem; but we neither have ourselves, nor do we recognise in the Pope, any power to dissolve a marriage, quoad vinculum; that is, the bond of marriage, according to our belief, is indissoluble.

That is, it would be impossible, under any circumstances, for one of the parties to make a second valid marriage, the other party being still living ?-It never could be.

Is there no power in the Pope to give a dispensation from the general principle of the law in the Roman Catholic church? There is no power in the Pope to dispense with a law of God or of Nature; and we consider that the law of God renders marriage indissoluble. The Greek church, and the Church of England, hold that marriage can be dissolved when one of the parties commits adultery; but the Catholic church holds that marriage, even by adultery, cannot be dissolved.

Will you be good enough to explain to the Committee, in what manner the bill, which is quite familiar to you by the name of the Burial Bill, which passed last session, has been carried into effect in your diocese ?-With regard to the Burial Bill, it has not been carried into effect in any case, in the diocese where I live. There has not been leave sought for from the Protestant rector, to have the funeral rites performed, except in one instance, and there the permission was applied for by the father of the deceased, which father happened to be a Protestant; but no Catholic clergyman in the diocese where I live, has at any time applied to a Protestant rector for the permission which the Act requires that he should apply for; and therefore I may say, that the bill has not in any one instance in that diocese had effect.

Is there any objection, on the part of Roman Catholic priests, to make that application to Protestant rectors ?There is a very strong objection.

What is the nature of that objection ?-It arises from feeling, I should think, because the Catholic priest conceives, that upon giving notice to the sexton or person having charge of the burial-ground, that a corpse was to be interred, he ought to have a right to go there and perform such service; and he does consider, that his being obliged to make application for leave to the Protestant rector to perform the funeral service, and to have the Protestant rector fix the time when such service can be performed, the priest does conceive this to be an act of submission upon his part, from which his feelings recoil. The Act, however, I think might very easily be so amended as to meet the views of all parties.

In what manner is the burial service performed at present? At present we do not perform any burial-service in the burial-place. The service for the dead we perform in the chapel, or sometimes in the house of the deceased, and then the corpse is taken to the burial-ground, and interred without any ceremony. However, when the grave is about to be. closed, if there be a clergyman present, he recites a short psalm, with a prayer; and, if there be no clergyman present, one of the laity does this; we do not now, nor did we at any

time, perform the burial-service; it is merely a common prayer that we recite.

What distinction does the priest draw between the right to perform the Burial service in the church-yard, and the right to perform the Marriage service in the church; does he draw any such distinction ?-I never heard him draw the distinction or make the comparison; and I have never made it in my own mind.

Do you think that one right stands upon the same footing as the other?—I do not conceive it does; our marriages in Ireland need not be performed in the church by a Protestant clergyman, we can perform them where and when we please; therefore with us, in our common ideas, the one thing and the other are not naturally joined together, nor do we naturally make a comparison between them; but we do conceive that the rector of the parish has a just and reasonable right to his church, and that he can exclude from it or admit into it such persons as he thinks proper, except such as have an established right to go there; but we conceive that every Christian in the parish has a right to be buried in the parish church-yard; and we conceive, that as the friends of the deceased have a right to inter his corpse there, that they should also have a right to perform, either by themselves or their clergyman, such funeral rights as their faith would approve of.

You have the power, as a Roman Catholic prelate, to consecrate any ground for the purpose of burial?—I have, and have exercised it in many instances; however, I should rather much that the Funeral Service Bill were so mitigated as to meet our views, that a new line of distinction, as it were, might not be drawn between Protestants and Catholics; for, though I have consecrated some church-yards, I always did so with reluctance and pain, because I thought I was thereby keeping open the separation, which was too wide, between men whom I would be most anxious to see united, both whilst living, and even after death.

Have you found that there was a greater disposition on the part of the Catholic inhabitants to bury their dead in the church-yard of the parish church, even though they could not, have the advantage of the religious service of the church there, than to avail themselves of the consecrated ground?No, I have not observed it; they have a strong partiality for burying their dead in the place where their ancestors also lie; but as in our church there is a practice of praying for the dead, and as our newly-consecrated grounds are always adjoining chapels, people find a consolation in burying their dead in