Catholics not only degrading to me individually, but to the Catholic trading body generally; and, as rather a large Bank proprietor, I wished also to have some insight into the management of the concern.

Among the individuals who have been appointed to the direction of the Bank, being Protestants, are there persons who carry on trade on a smaller scale than the Catholics, who, by the practice at the Bank, have been excluded?-There are some persons in trade in the Bank direction, who carry on trade on a very small scale indeed.

Have any efforts been made by the proprietors of the Bank, to obtain the nomination of Roman Catholics to the Bank direction? -I have complained myself very much about the exclusion of Catholic proprietors from the Bank direction; the Bank directors have made it a pretence, (for I consider it nothing but a pretence,) that the law interposed the disqualification, which I know is not

the fact.

Can you state what proportion of merchants there are in the Bank direction?—They are nearly all merchants, or persons that have been connected with trade; it does not occur to me that there is, perhaps, more than one, that either has not been in trade, or has not been connected with it, and has had commercial experience and knowledge.

What is the qualification in point of stock ?-2,000l. stock for a director; 3,000l. to be a deputy governor: and 4,000l. to be the governor.

.. In whom is the choice of Bank directors vested?-It lies with the proprietors; but the Bank directors make a house list, and there is a combining and confederating amongst them, to keep up constantly amongst themselves, when once named, monopoly of direction, with party feeling, and to exclude Catholics from the direction.

Are there many other Catholics in the city of Dublin, with whom you are acquainted, who are considerable proprietors of Bank stock?-I know some that are considerable proprietors; some of the largest.

Are there any other public bodies in the city of Dublin, connected with the commerce of Dublin, from which Roman Catholics are excluded?-There is the Ballast board I believe; the expenditure of that board, last or the preceding year, was fifty or sixty thousand pounds, and I never heard of a Catholic being in the direction. I know a gentleman, some years ago was mentioning to me, that he wished I was in the direction, but says he, no Catholic is in the direction, or has been in the direction; I said, I was quite indifferent about it.

With regard to the Chamber of Commerce, which is a voluntary association of the merchants of Dublin, how does that stand

with respect to religious distinction ?-I am not a member of the Chamber of Commerce; it was established last year, and I was repeatedly solicited to be a member of it, but as I had given up trade, I declined being a member; I do not believe any religious distinctions prevail there.

That association is altogether of a voluntary nature ?-I think they are admitted there by ballot; but when it was established last year, it was associated voluntarily.

Within your knowledge of Dublin, have you known the wealth of the Catholic body to increase?-Very considerably.

Have you known any portion of that personal property which has been accumulated by them, to be invested in the purchase of real estate ?-Yes, I have.

Have you yourself been a purchaser ?—I have not been a purchaser; I have an estate, which was left to me by a relation of mine, a merchant, who purchased it; he was a partner of mine.

In any purchase which you have known take place on the part of a Catholic, have you ever heard an objection raised, on the ground of its having been a forfeited estate in times past ?-Never.

Would that circumstance be an objection to yourself, if you thought it proper to vest your money in land?-Certainly not; it never entered my head.

Do you consider there is a disposition at present in English capitalists, to adventure in speculation, in Ireland?—I see there is a very considerable disposition.

Do you consider that the political state of Ireland, has any tendency to retard such investment of English capital in that part of the United Kingdom ?-A very material instance of that nature, came within my knowledge, the day before yesterday; a gentleman, a landed proprietor, a Member of Parliament, had nearly completed a treaty, to borrow 50,000l. in London; I do not know exactly upon what terms, but however the treaty was nearly completed, and in consequence of the bill suppressing the Catholic Association, and the impression in the lender's mind, that the security for his money in Ireland, under the aspect of affairs, was not such as he would wish, he declined lending the money; this came to my knowledge the day before yesterday.

Was the lender a Catholic or a Protestant ?-I do not know; he is an English capitalist.

And the security was to be upon landed property in Ireland?— Upon landed property in Ireland.

Do you understand in what way the bill to which you allude, increased the unwillingness of the lender, to advance his money? He thought the security for property for an English capitalist, would be likely to become more endangered in consequence, as he

conceived, of the discontent being increased, through the means of that bill.

Did he express that opinion?-Yes, I understand so; the bor rower is a noble lord.

In what part of the country was his estate situated; in the north, south, east, or west ?-It is about the south-west, I think.

Did you hear him so express himself?—I did not; it only came to my knowledge the day before yesterday accidentally; a professional gentleman who was concerned in the matter, happened to mention it accidentally the day before yesterday; I have heard of it since.

Are you quite sure that the objection of the lender was not founded upon the proceedings of the Association, rather than upon the bill which put down that Association ?-I should suppose it was not founded upon the proceedings of the Association, inasmuch as the treaty was in progress when the proceedings of the Associa tion were in activity.

Then you consider the treaty to have broken off in consequence of the apprehension of discontent that might be produced in Ireland?-I have understood so,

Then do you consider, that every cause which has a tendency to augment and aggravate that discontent in Ireland, tends to check the influx of English capital into that country?—I should suppose so, certainly.

Can you trace that consequence to the existing disqualifying laws on the subject of religion in Ireland ?—I should think so.

Have you any particular facts upon that subject, which support that opinion? I know that discontent very generally prevails throughout the Catholic body, on account of the disqualifying laws; it prevails from the highest Catholic peer to the humblest Catholic peasant; I have no doubt of it.

Is not that discontent very much connected with all the internal system of insurrection and disturbance? I should think it was; but I resided in Dublin, and I know very little of the inte rior of Ireland. My knowledge of Irish matters (that is, from my own actual observation) is confined to Dublin, and circumstances there.

Does not that discontent shew itself by those commotions that you read of and hear of in that country?—I think clearly,

Do not you happen to know that there is, generally speaking, great disinclination on the part of the English capitalists to advance money upon the security of landed property in Ireland, amounting almost to a determination not to do so? I have heard so, I do not know it of my own knowledge,

Arising from a doubt of the security being good?-Arising

from a doubt of the security, perhaps, as well as from other

causes.

And arising from a doubt of the tranquillity of the country?— Considerable doubt of the tranquillity of the country.

Has it come to your knowledge that money is pretty freely lent on mortgage in the north of Ireland, at four and a half per cent?—I have heard so; but it has not come to my actual knowledge.

Have you ever served upon grand juries in Dublin ?-Never. Have you ever been called in court to serve?—I think I have been summoned to the commission court: I suppose it was a grand jury.

Have you never been called to the term grand juries ?-Never.
Are you a freeholder of the city of Dublin?-No.
Nor a freeman ?-No.

Have you known many Catholics summoned to serve upon the term grand juries ?--I have not heard of any; I heard it stated as matter of complaint that they had not been summoned: I suppose none have been summoned, for I heard it complained of that they have not been summoned.

Are very large sums levied upon the inhabitants by the grand juries of Dublin ?-I understand so.

Is it a matter of complaint among the Catholics, that they are not allowed to participate in the levying of those sums, and in the expenditure of them?-I have heard it made matter of complaint by Catholics.

Do you understand whether the exclusion from serving upon term grand juries is peculiar to the Catholics?-I cannot answer that question precisely, for I scarcely ever went to the court myself; but I have understood it was almost entirely peculiar to Catholics, I have heard so.

Have you ever heard, that many very wealthy Protestant gentlemen are equally excluded from serving upon grand juries, with Catholics? I have heard some wealthy Protestant gentlemen, who are what are called liberal Protestants, complain that they were treated like Catholics.

Have you heard the same of any illiberal Protestant gentlemen, as they are called?-Never, that I recollect.

You have not any very accurate knowledge upon the subject?— Indeed, I have not.

In point of fact, do you not know that the term grand juries are composed of members of the corporation only?—Yes; I see in the paper eight, or nine, or ten aldermen, and sheriffs, peers, and people of that description.

Does not that exclusion of all the inhabitants of Dublin, except those who are possessed of a corporate rank, tend to diminish the

confidence which the public feel in the acts, whether civil or criminal, of those grand juries?—I should think it naturally would; it does, in my opinion.

Have you ever attended a county election in Ireland ?--Only once; I have been, perhaps, twice, but only for half an hour or so; but I did once attend two or three days.

Where was that?-In the county of Dublin.

What description of persons, in point of property and station, are the forty-shilling freeholders whom you then saw vote, and whom you have seen vote on other occasions?-I took myself, from what I saw, some feeling of objection to the forty-shilling freeholders; I rather lamented that there were that description of freeholders.

Do you think they are in a station of life which gives any security to the public, of a fair and independent exercise of their franchise?—I think they are not in that station of life that gives such security.

In the event of a bill being carried for the emancipation of the Catholics, as it is termed, do you conceive that it would be de'sirable to make any alteration in the present qualification of the freeholders ?-Very desirable, as it strikes me.

Do you conceive that such alteration would be acceptable to the Catholics, if it formed part of a general measure of emanci'pation ?---It seems to me, that Catholic emancipation would be so great a boon, that I should think it would be acceptable.

Do you consider, that a proposition for altering the franchise, without at the same time accompanying that measure with Catholic emancipation, would be attended with risk or danger?--With both, I think.

Do you consider, that such alteration, would contribute to diminish the fair influence of Catholics in elections ?---From my own knowledge, I know very little of the nature of elections; I am inclined to think it would not diminish the fair influence of Catholics.

To what amount would you think it advisable to raise the qualification, from the present qualification of forty shillings?--I have heard, that it was proposed to raise it to ten pounds; I should think myself, that the lower classes of electors would think their rights too much abridged by its being raised to ten pounds; I should think, that five pounds would be a better standard; they would consider ten pounds qualification a hardship, I should think; but I know very little of the nature of elections.

In the observations you have made in regard to forty-shilling freeholders, do you apply your observations to counties at large, or do you also apply it to cities and towns ?---I meant counties at large.