bellion of 1798?-I recollect it well; it was perfectly tranquil every where but at Curtleriland; there was not within thirtymiles of the residence of my father or uncle, a single soldier or a single yeoman, except my brother who belonged to the Kenmore yeomanry cavalry, that was distant twenty-four miles from it.

Were there not at that time certain individuals in the county of Kerry, who were considered to partake of the revolutionary principles of those times?-There were.

Were those persons of the superior ranks of life?-They were. What was their religious faith ?-They were the sons of magistrates and grand jurors, some of them; and they were all Protestants.

Were there not at that time a great number of Protestant gentlemen considered as united Irishmen, though the fact was, that they were not at all connected with the society?—Not immedidiately in 1798, but in 1799 they were; as the Orange system grew strong, it became the habit to consider every Protestant of liberal opinions as an united Irishman, and to brand him as such; and the newspapers did so.

Have you had any means of ascertaining the effect produced upon the temper and disposition of the people, by the Insurrection Act?-I think the temper produced by the Insurrection Act, is likely to be very unfavourable in the case of future disturbances, the opinion created by the facility of transporting persons leaving a very deep impression of injustice about it; and if there shall be disturbances hereafter, my own apprehension is, that that they will be still more sanguinary in consequence of that.

Do you think it tends to augment and to continue any sort of indisposition existing in the minds of the people to the adminis tration of the law?-I am sure it does; it tends to pepetuate the notion, that law and government in Ireland is a matter of mere brutal force; that it is the compression of power, and not the administration of right. It creates that idea very much; and when I say this, I am not at all saying that there was not a necessity in particular districts, for taking very violent measures, for certainly atrocious crimes had been committed in particular districts.

Do you conceive that the same feeling is entertained by the people, towards a decision of the Court of Insurrection Sessions, that is felt towards a decision of the ordinary courts of law at assizes, through a jury?-Most certainly not; there is not the acquiescence at all; to a certain extent, wherever there is a jury, there is an acquiescence in the decision, however against them; but the notion of the courts under the Insurrec

tion Act, is totally abhorrent form any idea of law. It is the sending away a man because they choose: the magistrates are not sworn to do justice in the particular case; a magistrate comes in, and takes a partisan share in the transaction; he comes on the table as a witness, and whether he mixes with the magistrates again, I cannot say; though I presume, from the character of part of the gentlemen who were appointed as King's counsel, that he is not allowed to vote after he has been a witness, aud yet I cannot say that he is not.

In your experience on the Munster circuit, have you known any instance in which juries have been either seduced or intimidated from the discharge of their duty, in administering the ordinary laws? I have been counsel for more Whiteboys than perhaps any other individual ever was in Ireland, and I never knew one single instance of an acquittal that I could trace to any intimidation or seduction; I mean even in my own mind.

Have you known any instances, in which jurors have declined attending at the assizes, in consequence of intimidation, or any other indirect motive?-I have never known it; I think I heard, at one time, of something of the kind prevailing in the county of Limerick, some apprehension of that kind; I heard of it only once, and I never knew it; and in Munster, I do not believe it occurred at all.

In the Munster circuit, with which you are acquainted, have you known any distinctions to exist in the formation of juries, by reason of the religious faith of the persons summoned ?—Yes, I have; I have known it prevail in the county of Cork; it is not attributable at all to the gentlemen of the bar, who conduct the prosecutions there either, under the late Attorney General; and if there was a degree of comparison, it would be less under the present; but under the late Attorney General, the gentlemen of the bar did not countenance it at all; and the Crown solicitor for that circuit, would not countenance it either; but the police magistrates interfere, that is the magistrates appointed by government; and I have seen the magistrates for the county of Cork, I mean as well the police magistrates, as other magistrates in that county, attending particular prosecutions, setting aside the Catholic jurors, and endeavouring to pick out, as much as possible, a Protestant jury, some of them Orangemen.

That is rather when the cause comes on for trial?-Entirely. It is not, in influencing the return of the panel?—No; the return of the panel in the county of Cork, includes a great number of names; several hundred, as it ought to do; and therefore, by means of the right of the Crown to set it aside, the prosecutor in every case, can, in fact, choose his own jury.

In the county you have alluded to, that right has been exercised in setting aside Catholic jurors?-It was exercised till I complained of it. I have endeavoured to avoid the criminal court as much as I could; but as soon as I complained of it, Mr. Serjeant Goold, who conducts the criminal prosecutions there, and who is as liberal a gentleman as can possibly exist, and an extremely able man, instantly discountenanced it, and prevented it as much as he possibly could; the Crown solicitor also concurred in preventing it.

Are you acquainted with the mode, in which the police, in your county of Kerry, have been appointed?-The magistrates in my county, kept to themselves the nomination of the police, they nominated all the police, and there never has been the least complaint of any outrage upon the people, being committed by a police man in my county; in point of discipline and appearance they are to the full equal to any other police, and in their efficiency they cannot be exceeded: they do their duty without giving offence to any person; they certainly would not lightly fire at any crowd of individuals in the county, for any man who fired, could not know but it would be his own brother or father he may shoot.

Do you know whether the majority of the police of the county of Kerry are Catholic, or Protestant ?—I believe a very decided majority are Catholics.

Do you think it advisable, in selecting and appointing police men, to take men from the immediate neighbourhood?-From the county, I should think it decidedly advisable, whenever the magistracy was of a certain character. The county of Kerry I take to be particularly well circumstanced, with respect to a great number of its magistrates; it has excellent Protestant, and I may venture to say excellent Catholic magistrates.

Would it not be likely to lead to the exercise of prejudice in some cases, and of favour in others?—Yes, it would certainly; but the situation of a police man is an extremely valuable one to the Irish peasant; it is quite an establishment to him, and he would not lightly forfeit it; and if he committed any kind of offence, it would be known who did it immediately; he would be under the eye of his own neighbours, and he would not be likely to escape as a stranger would. There is a kind of domestic watching over him, if he be appointed in his own county; my own opinion, in the abstract would be, that it would be highly advisable that the magistrates should appoint in each particular county; and I know in Kerry, where the experiment has been made, the result is undoubtedly such as one would wish.

Individual police men have frequently very great power in

their dispersion over the county, in ones and twos?-They have.

Without vigilant inspection, would not those powers be subject to very great abuse?-Certainly; but I think those much more likely to be abused by strangers than by natives.

In the county of Kerry, where the magistrates appointed from the inhabitants of the county their own police men, still a power is vested in and exercised by the government officer to remove those police men, if he shall think fit, to any part of the county?-Yes, I understand that that power is vested in him; it is a power that one would say certainly ought to be in him.

Then, in the event of any favour being exercised, arising from local connexion, do not you think that that power of change of quarters is sufficient to correct it?-It certainly would tend very much to correct any local evil; but my opinion is, that the evil would be greater in bringing in strangers.

Do you know whether the clergy of the Roman Catholic church, in the parts of Munster with which you are acquainted have made any exertions in maintaining the peace of the county? -Great and constant; the clergy of the Catholic church in Kerry are unremitting in their exertions, whenever occasion requires to preserve the peace.

Are any particular instances present to your recollection, in which their exertions have been of service ?-In all cases where disturbances broke out I knew the Catholic clergy to take the most zealous and active measures in their power, to quell the disturbances.

Have those exertions ever been at personal risk to themselves, or attended with fatal consequences to themselves?-At personal risk, certainly; I do not recollect any case of fatal consequence in Munster; except that in the county of Limerick, there was a Catholic priest shot by them, upon his interfering to prevent outrage or felony, he was shot by Whiteboys or felons.

That was the case of Mr. Mulquiny?-Yes; it also happened on the day that the man was murdered between Tralee and Killarney, in January 1822, his name was Brereton; at that period a Mr. O'Donnel at Milstrut was taken by the insurgents, who turned out upon that occasion in open rebellion, and was actually upon his knees, to be shot, when the priest fortunately arrived, threw himself between Mr. O'Donnel and the persons who were going to shoot him, and remained in that position with the utmost peril of himself; they repeatedly declared that they would shoot him if he did not come from between them; he protected at his own personal risk, Mr. O'Donnel, who

would certainly have been murdered if the priest had not done

that.

You have a good opportunity of knowing the opinions of the Roman Catholic gentry in Ireland, with respect to the Protestant establishment in the country; have you any notion that the Roman Catholic gentry of Ireland wish to have the Protestant hierarchy transferred to their own priesthood?-I am quite convinced that the Catholic gentry in Ireland would oppose as strongly as it would be possible for them to do, any transfer of the property of the Established church from that church to their own; I am quite convinced they would oppose it. I am sure, for one individual, I should concur in that opposition most heartily. Can you form any opinion, whether the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland would be disinclined to accept of a provision from the state, if in doing so they were freed from all imputation of making a separate cause from that of the laity?—I am convinced they would not accept it at all till the Catholics were emancipated, because, until that event, they could not be freed from the imputation of trafficking for their own advantage; but I am sure that if an equalization of civil rights took place, they would accept of it, and that the Catholic gentry would concur with them, in a desire that they should, the object being to connect the Catholic clergy and laity of Ireland with the government itself, to embody them as it were as a portion of the state, and to give the government what we would desire, a reasonable and fair influence over the Catholic clergy, so that there should not be even an idea of any danger of their being taken away to favour a foreign enemy, or to favour domestic insurrection; I am sure that is the opinion of the clergy, and I know it is the opinion of the Catholic gentry.

Do you think such an arrangement can in any manner have the effect of alienating the flocks from the clergy, if so paid?If made upon an Emancipation Bill heartily entered into, in a proper spirit; and I would beg leave to say, it would be better to leave things as they are than to have an Emancipation Bill that was not in a proper spirit both for the Catholics and Protestants, for it would be giving us additional power, and leaving still a stimulant to those animosities that divide the country; and I think the thing should remain as it is, unless it be done heartily and cordially; if it be done so, I have not the least doubt that it would not at all interfere between the priests and their flocks, or take away the influence from them; there is more of intellect about an Irish peasant than they frequently get credit for.

Have you any reason to apprehend whether there is any tendency on the part of any foreign country to interfere with