that Mr. Peel's answer was, what class does this person belong to: the reply was, he is a fisherman; that Mr. Peel then said, that is not what I mean, is he a Protestant or a Roman Catholic? that the answer to that 66 was, he is a Roman Catholic;" that Mr. Peel then dismissed the case, saying, "if that is the case I decline interfering;" is that a correct statement of the outline of the case, as stated by you?—No, it is not.

Then have the goodness to state the circumstances, as stated by you?-I will. Mr. M'Dougal mentioned to me, that the person of the name of Kirwin or Kirewan, had saved the lives of eleven persons in the army, three of whom were officers, and that he, from motives of pure humanity, and having no acquaintance with any person in authority, went to the castle and applied for a remuneration for this individual, and that he was asked at the castle; (I am now stating what Mr. M'Dougal mentioned to me; I will afterwards state how far I may have perhaps modified or coloured those facts;) he was asked, I say, at the castle, and with emphasis; (but he did not state that it was by Mr. Peel, I believe he stated that it was by Sir Edward Littlehales,) whether the individual in question was a Protestant. Mr. M'Dougal not only mentioned these circumstances to me, but he also mentioned them to a very respectable merchant of the city of Dublin, Mr. Nicholas Mahon; who, when some controversy arose as to the truth, or the full extent of the truth of my statement, corroborated the body of the facts which I had publicly mentioned. I think it right to add, that Mr. M'Dougal requested me not to mention these circumstances; from which obligation, I conceive, that his death has completely released me; as I supposed he was apprehensive, that a disclosure of this conversation might prejudice him in his advancement in his profession; whether he was right or not I do not know. I did not state in public that Kirwin received no reward; but perhaps I was guilty of some rhetorical artifice, in not adding, that he received the reward of 30l. which was the only reward that he did receive for saving the lives of eleven persons. I certainly did insinuate, that the question, whether Kirwin was a Protestant, had been put by the authority of Mr. Peel; and I did conceive, that the person who had this conversation with Mr. M'Dougal, had been instructed to ask that question; perhaps I was not warranted in drawing the inference, but I certainly did not state, that Mr. Peel gave no remuneration to the individual in question; on the contrary, I know that the individual in question received the small sum of 30%. and received nothing more.

Did Mr. McDougal inform you, that the only communication he ever had with Mr. Peel on that subject was in writing?-Mr. M'Dougal did not state that to me; allow me to add, that a few days before I left Dublin, the individual concerned in this act of

very signal humanity came to Dublin, in consequence of his having seen that I had made mention of his name, and he asked me to draw a memorial for him to the Lord Lieutenant, setting forth the extent of his services; which memorial I was prevented from drawing by the necessity of coming over to this country. Kirwinstated to me, that he himself and Mr. M'Dougal had an interview with Mr. Peel; how far he was right, I cannot state. I know the propensity among the lower classes to put forth every thing in a light the most favourable to themselves; I am inclined to think he must have been under some mistake, and that he saw some other person whom he mistook for Mr. Peel; Kirwin is thirty-six years of age, and when he asked for some small place in the Revenue, he stated that Mr. Peel observed, that he was too old; which I ap prehend Mr. Peel would not have stated, for he is a very strong and healthy man; I conceive therefore it is unlikely that he could have had such an interview, for the person who told him his age was an obstacle to his appointment, must have been mocking him.

Did Mr. M'Dougal tell you, that he wrote a letter to Mr. Peel, in which he stated that this man was in the utmost pecuniary dis tress, and had been actually in prison some time for a debt of 6l.; Mr. McDougal having himself released him from prison, and thinking it a great reflection upon the town in which he lived, that such a man should have remained in prison ?-Mr. M'Dougal did not mention this fact to me, but I do think that Mr. M'Dougal stated to me he had written a letter to Mr. Peel.

Did Mr. McDougal tell you that Mr. Peel's answer to that letter was to this effect; that General Doyle, who commanded the district, had been instructed to examine into all the claims that had been preferred by persons who had been instrumental in saving lives from that ship; that he begged Mr. M'Dougal would see General Doyle would lay the claims of this individual before him, and that General Doyle would make a report to Mr. Peel upon the subject?—He did not; but Kirwin subsequently told me that he had a conversation with General Doyle, and that General Doyle put it to his election, whether he would take 301. or wait until he should get some small place; and that he preferred taking the 30%.: and Kirwin said also, that it was mentioned to him, that his name was taken down at the Castle in the list of promotion for some petty office; but that he had not been appointed, although some years had elapsed, and he requested me to draw a memorial for him, calling the attention of government to that fact.

Did Mr. M'Dougal conceal from you the important fact, that the whole case had been referred to General Doyle, with instructions to inquire into the whole of it ?-Mr. M'Dougal did not mention it; it was at the bar mess at Kilkenny he mentioned the cir cumstances I have detailed. Mr. M'Dougal was a gentleman of

what I call liberal opinions; he was favourable to Roman Catholic emancipation; we were observing in conversation, that the most profitable course a Protestant could pursue in Ireland was to support the doctrines of Ascendancy: he did not mention the facts for the purpose of public statement, but, on the contrary, laid me under an injunction of secrecy, which I obeyed while he lived.

But he concealed the fact, that this case was referred, with others, to the General commanding in the district; that 30l. was presented to the individual, that having been reported by the General to be a remuneration for those services?-Mr. M'Dougal laid no stress upon any circumstance except upon the question having been asked, whether Kirwin was a Protestant, and that it should have been made an ingredient by men in power, in the consideration of the extent of his remuneration. That was the gist of the conversation. Are you aware of the fact now, that this case was referred to the same individual to whom every other case had been referred, which individual being a general officer of the district, was instructed to report to the government what sum he thought was a just remuneration to each individual respectively for the services they had performed, and that the sum named by General Doyle as a proper remuneration to Kirwin was 30%., and that 30%. was paid to him? -I am not aware that any such reference was made. You are aware of it now, by the communication you have had subsequently with Kirwin?-I am merely aware of this, that General Doyle put it to his election whether he would take 30%. or take the promise of promotion; but I am not aware that there was any reference made to General Doyle, I am merely aware of the naked fact I have mentioned.

You are aware that the individual had an offer from the general officer of the district, either that he should receive the sum of 30%. to be paid immediately, or if he preferred it, that his name should be placed upon the list of candidates for small appointments in the revenue?—I am; and I beg to add, I conceive that the question as to whether he was a Protestant, if ever put, was put with a view to ascertain whether he should be placed in a situation of respectability or weight, and that religion in Ireland does decide the place which an individual is to hold in connexion with the government, or in any of its inferior departments.

What was the employment of Kirwin?—I heard he was a fisherman, but he himself told me, since my statement, that he was a farmer, and he certainly appears to be a very decent man, he reads and writes; I should call him a very intelligent man.

Mr. M'Dougal informed you that he was a fisherman, did he not? I think he did; but I afterwards, in conversation with himself, found he was a farmer; he lives on the sea coast.

What place of weight and responsibility could an individual

who was a fisherman, and had remained in prison for a debt of 67. expect from the government?-I think that weight and responsibility are relative terms, and that a person in an inferior class may be trusted with employments that are of consequence and require fidelity and good conduct, the salary of which at all events is of moment; I think that a salary of 60l. a-year given to this humble man, if employed in some small office, would have been a matter of great importance to him; and I think that the question whether he was a Protestant, if at all put, (which I believe, although I do not positively state it, I had it merely on the authority of Mr. M'Dougal,) was put with a view to determine whether he should be employed, and in what way.

How do you reconcile that answer with Kirwin's own statement, that the offer of a place was made to him if he preferred waiting for a place rather than receiving a sum of money at once? -I think the nature and importance of the place was to be determined by the religion; if he had been a Protestant he would probably have been employed in a situation of that class to which Protestants are usually promoted.

Do you know the places to which Kirwin would have been eligible? There are many situations in the police, many situations in the revenue; for instance, the place of water-guard; and other places which he might have held.

Supposing the place of water-guard should have been established since the claim of Kirwin was presented to the govern ment, you would not in that case draw any inference from his not being appointed to that?-I mention the place of water-guard merely as illustrative of the sort of place he might have held; of course analogous places must have existed before that of waterguard was established.

Do you know that in many instances places in the revenue are places of promotion, and that it is absolutely necessary to belong to a subordinate class before a man can be promoted to a higher? —I am aware of that; but I think the most inferior situation in the revenue would have been an object to this poor man.

Mr. M'Dougal did not state to you, that Mr. Peel was the person who put the question as to his being a Protestant or a Roman Catholic?-Mr. M'Dougal did not state to me, that Mr. Peel was the person who put that question; he stated, that it was put by a person attached to the Castle, but I conceived it was suggested by Mr. Peel. I think I have a right to add, I am not disposed to think so now.

As at present informed, do not you think, that if General Doyle suggested that 30l. was a fit remuneration to be made to Kirwin, and if 30l. was paid to him, that no impression unfavour

able to the government, in respect to its partiality, ought to arise upon that case?—I conceive, that if the sum of 30l. only was paid to a person who had saved the lives of eleven men in the employment of government, such a sum was an inadequate remuneration.

Supposing the general officer, who was requested to inquire into that and other circumstances, reported 30l. to be a fit sum, regard being had to the class of life of Kirwin, do not you think, that then a person in the situation of chief secretary to the Lord Lieutenant, and who could not, of course, make personal inquiry, would be justified in acting upon the opinion and report of the individual who had been directed to inquire?—I think that the secretary to the Lord Lieutenant, having learned that the lives of eleven persons in his Majesty's service had been saved by the exertions of an humble man, ought to have been greatly struck by an action so heroic and so useful, and should not have made the report of a general officer, the medium by which his own estimate of the moral merit of such an action ought to have been determined.

You do not suppose that General Doyle lessened the reward to Kirwin, because he was a Roman Catholic ?—I am sure he did not: but I cannot answer for the moral scale by which General Doyle estimated the value of Kirwin's conduct.

You think that 30%. was an inadequate reward for the service performed?-I certainly do. Three officers were saved, and eight soldiers; and that at a moment, when, I am sorry to say, others were committing acts of the greatest barbarity.

Who were the persons employed to report on the facts; were they not the general officers of the district ?—I presume that to be the case.

Was it likely that General Doyle, an officer himself, would undervalue the services of a man who had been instrumental in saving the lives of soldiers?—I will not undertake to dispute on the point of moral taste. I cannot pronounce upon the ethics or military sensibilities of General Doyle.

In the statement you have made, you stated, that the person at the Castle with whom M'Dougal communicated, retired to another room, and upon his returning, asked whether Kirwin was a Protestant or a Catholic?—I did; and I think it now right to mention, that in that particular, there was perhaps a rhetorical colouring in the specification of so minute a circumstance, which was not perhaps perfectly warranted: I cannot now positively say that Mr. M'Dougal did not state to me, that it was upon the return of the inferior officer at the Castle that the question was put; but speaking as a conscientious man ought to do upon so