not unconnected with a religous one; the Aristocracy of Ireland are chiefly Protestant: I may say almost entirely so, because they are to a great extent, masters of its fee-simple. I think that what is called an esprit de corps connected with religion, is thereby produced; Protestants are thus allied together, and where the rights of a person of an inferior class come into collision with those of a person belonging to the higher order, the religious feeling mixes itself with the aristocratic sentiment. The observations which I have just made, are applicable to the county of Wexford; I cannot say that I can illustrate the justice of those observations by any cases which have fallen within my own knowledge, but I know that the partiality for the landlord among the jury, is matter of familiar observation at the Bar.

In speaking of juries, you refer to the record juries?—Yes,

I do.

Of what description of the community are the juries generally composed?-In the county of Wexford, there are very few Roman Catholics who are possessed of considerable property; and I believe that the majority of the jurors who try civil cases in the county of Wexford, are Protestants.

The question referred to the class of the community; as to property, from which they were taken ?—I believe in that county of which I particularly speak, jurors are generally selected from a class of very highly respectable yeomanry, persons possessing four, five, or six hundred a year.

Are they tenants or landlords ?-I believe they are generally what are called middle men

You speak of the petit juries ?-Yes, of the record juries. I shall mention the instances which have occurred on my circuit, that appear to me to shew that there is something vicious in the administration of justice, arising in a great degree from the nature of the law itself; I begin with the case of Lawrence against Dempster, in which I happened to be counsel. The Insurrection Act was proclaimed in the town of Nenagh, in the county of Tipperary; Mr. Dempster is a magistrate for that county; he had a quarrel about an hour after sunset, (and it was a question whether the hour had elapsed, and that was left to the jury,) with a Mr. Lawrence, respecting a subject wholly unconnected with politics; very unwarrantable language was used by Mr. Lawrence towards Mr. Dempster. It is right that I should mention, that it was proved that at this time the wife of Mr. Dempster was walking in the streets of Nenagh, accompanied by some of her female friends, and many persons were at the time in the street; in consequence of gross personal language addressed to Mr. Dempster as an individual, but quite unconnected with his magisterial capacity, Mr. Dempster ordered Mr. Lawrence to be

arrested under the Insurrection Act, inasmuch as he was out of his abode an hour after sunset; the latter was, under this order, committed and detained in custody for, I believe, three days; a verdict for 751. only was recovered, in an action brought by Mr. Lawrence against Mr. Dempster. I conceive that unless there had been persons upon the jury, and I was assured of the fact, who were resolved to support the magistrates at all events, and who acted upon the principle that magistrates, even when grossly in error, or when acting corruptly, ought to be sustained, the verdict would have been much more considerable. A point was saved at the trial; the question was, whether the action ought to have been trespass or case? It was brought before the court of Common Pleas; three of the Judges, Mr. Justice Moore, Mr. Justice Torrens, and Mr. Justice Johnson, all concurred in saying, that the conduct of Mr. Dempster deserved the strongest reprobation; Lord Norbury was the only Judge who stated, that in his opinion, his conduct did not deserve much censure, and that at all events magistrates ought to be supported. What I am now stating, is within my own personal knowledge. The case was reported in the Dublin Evening Post. I think that Mr. Dempster was guilty of a gross perversion of the power intrusted to him, and I think that he ought to have been deprived of the commission of the peace; he was not deprived of the commission of the peace; he remained after the facts I have detailed, still intrusted with this important power; and further, the magistrates of the county of Tipperary came to a resolution, that he was an active and useful magistrate, to prevent his being deprived of the commission of the peace. I think that the office of magistrate is connected with the administration of justice, and that to permit a man, who had abused the Insurrection Act in such a way, to continue in the exercise of magisterial functions, was highly censurable, and affords evidence that due means are not adopted to improve the administration of the law.

Do you recollect the language which was used by Mr. Lawrence to Mr. Dempster upon that occasion ?-I do not recollect the. exact words that were used, but I recollect that it was impossible that grosser language could be employed; I can recollect some of the words, which I should almost blush to mention.

Mr. Dempster's family were in the street at the time?-His wife was in the street, but not within hearing.

Was that proved?-At all events it was not proved that she was within hearing.

Do you know the persons that were on the jury?—I do not know the names of the persons that were on the jury, but I was told by the attorney who employed me in the action, and who was extremely well acquainted with the county, (Mr. Lanagan,

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a very clever and intelligent gentleman) that some of the jurors acted upon the principle of giving as little damages as possible against any magistrate.

Did he state to you the ground of his opinion?—He did not state that: I did not ask him the question, because I conceived, that from his familiar acquaintance with the habits and feelings of the country, he must have been acquainted with the fact.

Do you know of what religious persuasion Mr. Dempster is ?He is a Presbyterian; he is a Scotch Presbyterian; he was the surgeon of a regiment quartered in that part of the country, and settled there; I believe him independent of that fact, to be a respectable man, though I think he displayed too much alacrity in what he considered the discharge of his official duties.

On that occasion, or others?-I speak from public report; I think it my duty to mention, that complaints against Mr. Dempster came from persons very much disposed to find fault with magistrates; I know he was extremely unpopular in Nenagh.

Do you know from what parts of the county the persons composing the jury, were drawn?-I do not.

Do you know whether they were Protestants or Catholics, or both? I believe both.

Is it not the custom in the county of Tipperary to put Protestants and Catholics indiscriminately on juries ?-I believe in civil cases it is the practice to put Protestants and Catholics indiscriminately on juries; but I am sure that in cases which are either political or conceived to be so, or which have any connexion with the disturbances of the county, Roman Catholics are studiously excluded; I should violate confidence if I stated my authority, for the fact was communicated to me in confidence.

Was a panel returned which was intended solely for the trial of this particular case ?—No, there was a general panel; as well as I recollect in that particular case, the jury were chosen by ballot, which is the fairest mode; the names were put into a hat, and then drawn out.

How do you account for the former statement you made to the Committee, that in cases where magistrates were engaged in a trial, the Catholics were more particularly excluded than in other cases? If I stated that, I stated what I did not intend to do, and I conceive I must have been misapprehended.

Do you consider that in this case there was any special exclusion of Roman Catholics from the jury?—I am sure there was not; but I beg to add there appeared to be individuals of strong opinions, respecting the necessity of supporting the magistracy: upon the jury it was a mere matter of accident, and I do not mean to say, that in that instance any improper measures were taken by the sheriff or any other persons, for the purpose of pro

euring a corrupt jury; but the state of the law is such, that men's passions are marshalled against each other, and that thereby it almost inevitably happens, that in political cases, men will be swayed by undue motives; I conceive the remedy for that will be to abolish those distinctions which have generated this result; the vice is in the law itself,

Do you conceive that the influence only operates on one side? -No cases have come within my own knowledge, from which I should conclude that Roman Catholics were swayed by their political passions; but I think it extremely likely that they would be so. This, if the case, is also the fault of the law.

Do you know the proportion of Roman Catholics and Protes tants, who were on this particular jury?—I do not; but a single juror, it is quite obvious, exercises an absolute dominion over a jury, in the reduction of damages.

Did the jury retire from the box; and if so, for what time were they out?-They were out for about four hours; the Judge did not remain to receive the verdict by the consent of the parties, in consequence of the lateness of the hour, and it being understood that they would not be very likely to agree, it was consented that the registrar should receive the verdict.

Were you present in the court of Common Pleas, when this case came on?—I was; I argued the case in the court of Common Pleas

Of what class of society, chiefly, was this jury composed ?They were persons of the better class; they did not belong to the aristocracy of the county, not that class from which the grand jurors are generally selected; but they were respectable individuals, gentlemen; some of them, probably, of a thousand or fifteen hundred a-year, and others possessed of four or five hundred a-year.

Were they of that class of persons, out of whom magistrates are selected ?—I believe some of them were magistrates; I think Mr. Pennefeather was one of the jury, who was a magistrate.

Can you state what the circumstances of Mr. Dempster were, whether he was a person in needy circumstances?—He was a surgeon attached to a regiment; he is a Scotchman.

Was not the verdict of 75l. damages, proportioned to his circumstances?—I do not think it was, because he married a lady who has seven hundred a-year.

Did you advise moving for a new trial, on account of the inadequacy of the damages ?-I did not; because there is no instance in which a plaintiff can set aside a verdict in his favour, no matter how small the damages may be.

What was Mr. Lawrence?-Mr. Lawrence had been in the army.

Was he a Catholic or a Protestant ?—He is a Protestant. I am quite satisfied that Mr. Dempster was actuated by no religious feeling towards him, nor would he have been actuated by any such feeling towards him, if he had been a Roman Catholic. Mr. Dempster is not affected by the passions which prevail throughout Ireland; he is a Scotch gentleman, Mr. Lawrence is Irish; and I recollect this circumstance, that a friend of Lawrence's said, and this is, I think, remarkable, "Upon what principle could you possibly arrest Mr. Lawrence? for Mr. Lawrence is notoriously a loyal man." The person I allude to was a Mr. Rowan Cashell, a relation of Mr. Lawrence; he proved that he said to Mr. Dempster, Why should you arrest Lawrence, when he and all his family are loyal men? and he added, that he meant by that, that they were strong Protestants.

When this committal took place, was the county under the Insurrection Act ?-Not the whole county; that part of the county was.

Do you not think, that a disposition to support the magistrates might arise in any disturbed county, without the influence of any religious feeling whatever ?—I certainly think so.

And that that disposition to support the magistrates might fairly be attributed to apprehension, that the disturbances which prevailed might arise under the circumstances of any country whatever?—I certainly do think so; but I think it right to add, that I conceive that disposition is not at all unconnected with the spirit of domination produced by the sense of superiority arising from religion.

Mr. Dempster was a Scotchman ?—He was.

How long had he resided in Ireland ?—I think about four or five years; I know the gentleman personally.

Do you think he got so infected with this spirit of domination during four years residence, as to commit Mr. Lawrence to prison under the influence of those feelings which arise from the spirit of domination ?-I do not think so; and I did not state that I conceived that he was influenced by that sentiment. But the Jury, I conceive, were influenced, in their adjudication of damages, by that sentiment.

Do you not think it possible that Mr. Dempster, under the influence of irritated feelings, if he had been a magistrate acting in Scotland, might have committed this abuse of magisterial authority?—I think it possible; but I think it not likely, that in a well ordered community he would have been guilty of a violation of the law, which would have excited the reprobation of every person in his own class of society..

Did he ever afterwards express any regret at having been misled by passion to abuse the authority he had as a magistrate?