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Cathol: Good Frisblessed Vil the 15th &
to resist in that way ; but they are very warm in the expression of their passions, and they said they would sooner die than pay such an unnatural tax as that ; nevertheless it was levied, and they resisted. An order came down from the Castle of Dublin that the police should be sent there, and an old woman was brought out, and was to be tried at the last sessions in Skibbereen, for this breach of the law; yet their own chapel is in ruins.
Is it probable that an arrangement will be made to diminish the number of holidays ?-I should prefer that that question should be asked of some of our bishops; I know it is possible, because I know the number has been diminished in France and in Italy. In France, the number of holidays are fewer than in Ireland ; there are only four holidays in the year there.
What are they ?-All Saints day, Ascension day; I believe the feast of St. Louis, and the 15th of August, being the Assumption of the blessed Virgin, and Christmas-day..
And Good Friday ?-Good Friday is not a holiday in the Catholic Church.
You were lately in Rome ?-I was there last spring was four years ; I have not taken the number, but I know they are considerably reduced.
What is the number observed in the Catholic church in Ireland ?-The Circumcision, on January 1st; the Epiphany, January 6th ; the feast of St. Patrick, March 17th ; the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin, March 25th ; the feast of St. John the Baptist, on the 24th of June; of SS. Peter and Paul, the 29th June ; the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin, August 15th ; All Saints day, November 1st; and Christmas-day. The moveable feasts are, Easter Monday, Ascension Thursday, Whit-Monday, and the feast of Corpus Christi.
Is it not commonly the practice of gentlemen to apply to priests on particular days, to exempt the people from the holidays ?- It is.
And no objection is made to dispense with it?—Where the observance of a holiday would be attended with any material injury to a poor man, the dispensation is always granted.
Or to his industry ?-Yes. With reference to the case of Patrick Collins, who was apprehended under the Insurrection Act; the Insurrection Act was enforced in the district in which this occurrence took place ? -The whole county was proclaimed.
Is it an offence against that Act to be out after that hour ? - It is an offence against that Act; but that Act is not en
forced in that part of the country against any body ; we are out at all hours; it was not, and is not, at all enforced in practice, on account of the existing tranquillity of the
couphe Act Act it
The Act was legally in force !-It was legally in force.
By that Act it is an offence to be absent from home after sunset ? - Yes.
And this individual was guilty of that offence !-He was, in common with every other person of the country; he, seeing every one out after sunset, thought it was no offence in him to be out ; his complaint was, that he was selected for that purpose without cause.
His complaint was, not that he was apprehended without legal cause, but that the law was enforced against him, it not being enforced invariably against all ?-It being enforced against nobody else ; and then his being sent to Cork, as a person suspected of illegal practices, and not being brought to trial.
When he was brought before Serjeant Lloyd, although there was no information, still Serjeant Lloyd did not liberate him, but remanded him to prison ?-Because the learned Serjeant did not know what charge was made against him ; he could not know it until the informations were produced.
You stated that you considered many Catholics to disapprove wholly of the conduct of the association, in mixing up other matters, such as church reform, the question of the union, and other questions, with the consideration of the Catholic question ?-I am sure that has not the concurrence of the Catholics generally.
You were further asked, whether the Catholics had disavowed the association in these respects, and you stated they had not ; do you conceive that an indisposition on the part of the Catholics, to disavow the association in these respects, proceeds from an apprehension that they might thereby injure the discussion of the Catholic question itself ?I do ; they do not wish to have any thing like the appearance of divisions among themselves ; and though the Catholic Association might be in error in one or two points, they still look upon them as a useful body.
Does that public body express the Catholic opinion generally ?-It expresses it in some points, it is not a representative body, nor is it assumed to be such, but only a number of persons who have associated together for the promotion of the Catholic cause, and those persons have their individual opi. nions.
Do you conceive that the power of the Catholic Association
depends altogether upon the continuance of the Catholic disabilities ?--The association would become extinct if the disabilities were removed, they would no longer have any ground to work upon.
Do you conceive that a petition to Parliament, which not only contained a prayer for the removal of those disabilities, but contained a great number of prayers upon political subjects, unconnected with the Catholic question, would meet the assent of the great mass of Catholics of Ireland ?-I do think that petitions coming from them as Catholics, containing allegations and prayers to that effect, would be approved by the Catholics generally; many Catholics, who disapprove of the mode of getting up these petitions, concur, nevertheless, in the speculative opinions and sentiments expressed in them, but not as Catholics.
Do you wish to add any thing to the evidence you have given ? -Yes; there are some things I was questioned very closely, regarding the distinction between gentlemen of patrimonial property and gentlemen of the inferior class, in the abuses of their office as magistrates, and whether I imputed the same to gentlemen of high rank ; I said, I did not generally, but I have known gentlemen of high rank to be accused of similar things; that is to say, gentlemen possessing, or known to possess hereditary influence, arising from their connexions and their property in the country, but perhaps a diminished property just now; I do not want to make any particular allusions, but I want to show, that even gentlemen of that class were sometimes accused of being concerned in those mal-practices, though not generally.
Then you consider it rather belonging to persons whose circumstances are narrow, than those distinguished by any criterion of birth or station ?-Yes, instances of that sort were very likely to be the result of straitened circumstances. I was questioned pointedly with regard to the insolence of the Protestant peasantry, founded upon the view they have of their legal privileges, atid I was asked, why I did not disabuse them; I had not instances then in my memory, but instances have occurred.
Is there an Orange lodge amongst the yeomanry ?- There is; that is termed an Orange corps.
Are there many Protestants there?-A great many ; that corps is exclusively Protestant; there were a few Catholics, two or three, in it
Are there any other Orange lodges in the western part of the county of Cork ? --I think there was one at Dunmanway ; I have heard, that at the Dunmanway fair, in 1821, the Protestants attacked the people, and they wished to give the affray the character of rebellion. An appeal was made by them to government ; however the government had the good sense to send down an agent, and the result of his report was, that the aggression was on the part of the orangemen; they either had cut down, or pretended that some timber was cut down, by people to make pikes; it appeared that the timber had been cut down by the owner of the land six months before.
Who was the agent sent by government ?-Major Mahoney at Dunloe, in 1821.
That corps is still embodied ?-I believe the Dunmanway and Clonakilty corps are in being still ; it was considered as the interest of the Protestants to give the character of disturbance to the country. I have known an instance, where a man went into the parish of Killmore, pretending that he was an agent of the Whiteboys, to stimulate the people to rebellion ; he had, I believe, Pastorini's prophecies ; he was taken up by gentlemen there, and brought a prisoner to Clonakilty ; he made a reference to a magistrate in Cork, who sent him down a testimonial, that he came as an agent from government, and he was liberated, when it turned out that he was a spy, when he was actually inflaming the people to rebellion.
By whom was he apprehended in Clonakilty ? — By Mr. O'Drischol, and by the Rev. Mr. Kenny.
Do you know whether the prophecies of Pastorini were, in fact, circulated by this individual ?-I do not know whether they were circulated by him ; they were talked of in our county ; but last Easter Sunday my clerk took down something of that sort of unintelligible farrago from my chapel doors, which I suspected was put up by some orangeman, but we could not trace it.
Have you ever seen any tracts relating to the Antichrist, printed by the Religious Tract Society ?-I have heard of their circulation; I have heard of their being dropped by people travelling in gigs, and picked up on the road by countrymen.
Has the Orange lodge at Clonakilty an annual procession ? No; they used to go to Bandon, to contribute to the processions there.
Are the processions at Bandon continued ?-I believe they have desisted; they did go in procession last year.
Was there any riot?-I do not know, last year ; but the year 1821 there were two murders ; a woman was shot, and the consequence was, that the Papists, as they were called,
thinoy, but last Easter him; they were to know whether
murdered an innocent and poor Protestant at the fair of Timologue, about three days after the murder of the woman, by a cannon-shot. The orangemen carried a field-piece, loaded with stones ; they fired at the people, and they shot the woman.
That was at Bandon ?-That was at Bandon; three days after that an innocent poor man, a Protestant, was pointed out by some mischievous individual, at the fair of Timologue, as one of the Bandon orangemen, and the people assailed him, and murdered him.
Is there an inscription over the gate at Bandon now ?-No; that is down; I do not know whether it was ever there.
You never saw it?-No; nor never saw any body that did see it.
Veneris 25° die Februarii, 1825.
LORD BINNING, IN THE CHAIR. Anthony Richard Blake, Esq. called in; and Examined. You are a Roman Catholic ?-I am.
You were absent from Ireland for some years till within a late period ?-Yes, for several years.
Upon returning to Ireland, did you observe any alteration in the state generally of the country and the condition of the people ?-I left Ireland at a time of life at which one is not in the habit of considering very much the state of the country, about the age of nineteen ; but I was certainly at that time old enough to have some general impressions upon the subject'; I think I have observed a change, and a change considerably for the better. - Have you had opportunities of ascertaining the present condition of the lower orders of the people ?-My duties, as a Commissioner of Education, took me during the last autumn into several counties of Ireland ; I observed then, with satisfaction, that the lower orders of the people appeared much more decently clad than they were when I left Ireland originally, and I thought their general appearance considerably improved ; there is one subject on which of course I could give some information to the Committee, the important subject of Education ; but upon this I submit that it would not be proper for me at present to speak, inasmuch as it will be myduty, with my colleagues, to submit facts and opinions upon it to the Crown, from whence our authority issues,