sociation was the present Petition to Parliament and the Resolutions drawn up on the part of the Catholics of Ireland. Every one acquainted with the internal state of Ireland must have known the effect which the existence of these bodies had produced, or whether they could augur any thing of peace or concord from the Members who formed part of the voluntary association. They would recollect their interference in the right of election by which those Catholics who had not voted at the last General Election in favour of the advocates of the Catholic claims had lost the confidence of their Catholic fellow-subjects:-they would recollect the project of parochial subscription, by which power was given to call on every householder for 10s. or a larger sum, to defray the expence of the Petitions to Parliament, and by which it was ordered that those who had "refused to pay," should have those words written against their names: they would remember that a circular was sent to every member of the body to invite them to meet on the first and third Saturday of every month, because they were apprehensive that a religious persecution was about to recommence in Ireland. It was this body also which took on itself to inquire into alledged injuries to some Catholic soldiers, and it was in that body that it was proposed to appoint Ambassadors to the Spanish Cortes, to beg their interference in the government of this country. It was this body that appointed a Committee to inquire into the means by which the suffering Catholics of Monaghan could best be supported by legal means. The present association, to the honour of The former bodies, was not composed of all the members of those bodies, but of their leading and most violent members. How far then was the peace and honour of the United Kingdom likely to be supported by such a body? That question might be answered by every member of the Grand Juries, which had almost unanimously attributed to that body the disturbed state of their counties. Was the House then to accept Resolutions dictated by this body? But it was said by some that the House might grant a part of the claims of the Catholics under the restrictions which might be thought necessary: but to this the Catholics replied, "We will not thank youwe will resist a partial repeal, or a repeal which gives you any security." The Bill which the Honourable Baronet (Sir II. Parnell) intended to introduce would have the effect of separating Ireland from Great Britain, but if a different Bill was to be brought in, they might first hear the terms in which the Bill of 1813 was spoken of by Mr. O'Connell in a meeting of the Catholic Board, which was held for the purpose of passing thanks on the Catholic Prelates for their opposition to that Bill. [Sir H. Parnell here again wished to observe on the inaccuracy of the accounts which had been given of his interview with the Sub-Committee.] Mr. Feel observed that the passage which he was about to read did not refer to any part of the conduct of the Honourable Baronet, but of a Gentleman (Mr.O'Connell) who possessed the confidence of the Irish Catholics in a greater degree than any other person, and who had the votes of every individual of the association for his appointment to the Sub-Committee of which he was a Member. At every meeting of the Catholics of Ireland the thanks of the body to Mr. O'Connell were among their Resolutions. The opinion of a person who seemed thus to represent the opinions of the Catholic body was of some importance, and the more so because he had drawn up the present Resolutions and the Bill, which to save the Parliament the trouble of legislation had been drawn up and previously circulated, and which the Catholics presented as the only measure they would have. If the Honourable Members thought a different Bill might be brought in, they might hear in what terms the Bill of 1813 was described by Mr. O'Con Hell" It is impossible," he says, "that you should bear the name and form of Irishmen, and not abhor that absurd and mischievous Bill. You need not be warned that you should not confide in your Members, &c." Then alluding to the cheer with which the report of the contested clause in the Bill of 1813 being lost, was received, which was termed a "ruffian shout," he says, "Oh! may this be the last shout of English victory over poor, fallen, and deluded Ireland. May the day star of Ireland arise (by this, said the Right Hon. Gentleman, I suppose he meant the present Bill,) and break by its effulgence the chains which they are about to rivet on my country."Such language augured the possibility of no conciliatory arrangement, and the Hon. Baronet (Sir H. Parnell) would be an ineffectual deputy to the British House of Commous, should he be appointed Plenipotentiary to the Spanish Cortes. The Bill, however, which was brought in, was described as a Bill to bury all animosities, and unite all the subjects of his Majesty in defence of the empire. if not so supported, no laws could sustain it: for it must have been built upon a sandy foundation, and had lasted as long as any other novelty. This speech prefaced the Resolutions of the Catholic Meeting, by which the Bill brought before the House in 1813 was marked by the most decided disapprobation, especially as to the proposition brought forward for the security of the Protestant establishment. With those Resolutions too, the Declaration of the Irish Prelates in 1813 entirely concurred. Nay, this Ecclesiastical Assembly voted thanks to Dr. Milner, whom they called the unwearied, incorruptible, and able agent of the Catholic cause. With these proceedings in the recollection of the House, he asked whether any candid man could calculate that any measure the House was likely to adopt would give satisfaction to or excite the gratitude of the Catholic body of Ireland? Such a calculation would indeed be quite idle, as must be evident from the instances which he had cited. Upon the minds of these gentlemen, who had, in 1813, declared their expectation that the discussion If the justice of the proposition on that occasion would be final, as exsubmitted to the House were indisput-planatory of the views of the House, able, he would admit that the conduct of the parties upon whose Petition this proposition was grounded, would be a matter of no account. But when the conciliation of these parties was the avowed object, that conduct was a material subject of consideration. From the celebrated speech of that celebrated orator, Dr. Dromgole in Sir J. Newport thought, that look1813, at the meeting of these Catho-ing to the tranquillity of Ireland, and lics, from whom this Petition ema- the consolidation of the Union, it nated, it appeared that no such secu- would be most unwise to dismiss the rities as had been submitted to that Petitioners before the House without House in the course of that year, any examination of their case. could be at all acceded to, consistently a proceeding would indeed serve, in with a due regard to the discipline of his judgment, to aggravate that sorethe Catholic Church. And how did ness upon the expression of which the this orator describe the Protestant re- last speaker had so long dwelt, while ligion, in an unauthorised publication it must operate to paralyze a great of his speech? Why, that the Pro- portion of the strength of the empire, testant religion, if supported by Hea- at a period when the effective union ven, required no human aid: but that, of all its resources was so essential to he trusted that this consideration would have due effect. On the whole, seeing that no arrangement was likely to take place that could promise the conciliation of the Petitioners, if their wishes were to be judged of from their own language, he could not accede to the proposed Committee. Such A its common safety. He lamented that | For the question for the consideration so much bitterness had been manifested upon both sides of this question, and especially that such bitterness had appeared in that House. But he could not persuade himself to believe that the House would repel the case of the Petitioners unheard, merely because some of those aggrieved individuals had given expression to their honest minds in rather an intemperate manner. For it might be, that if any set of Gentlemen in that House were equally aggrieved, they would vent their dissatisfaction in terms even more intemperate. As to securities, he could not help thinking that the best security that could be devised for the present establishments of the country would consist in a community of privileges, because every man, of every religious persuasion, would then have an interest in supporting the system to which he owed the enjoyment of his privileges. According to the last speaker, the House should decline to concede to, or even abstain from, the consideration of the Catholic Claims, until the Catholics should altogether suppress the declaration of any angry feeling: but in his (Sir J. N.'s) view, it would be the better policy at once to remove the cause of such angry feeling. Such a course, indeed, would be more wise towards the State, and more just towards the parties aggrieved. It mattered not, according to his judgment on this occasion, what was the conduct of the Petitioners or their connections;-for, whether any Petition was before the House or not, it was due to justice, and the public in terest, to take this question into consideration. Therefore the conduct of no set of men belonging to the Catholic body should withdraw the House from a proper sense of its duty. He lamented as much as any man that any portion of the Catholics should have injured their cause by the indiscretion of their language or conduct; but he maintained that such indiscretion should not influence the judgment of the House upon the present occasion. of the House was not what might be the gratitude of any of those who were to receive, but what it was due to justice to give. Therefore the intemperate language of individuals should have no weight upon the deci sion of the House on this motion. The arguments and the statements of the last speaker, who was so decidedly hostile to the Catholic cause-who was so wedded to things as they exist ed, might be very impressive upon those who thought with him; but in his (Sir J. N.'s) mind they had no bearing upon the real merits of the present question. According to that Right Honourable Gentleman it would be derogatory to the dignity of Parliament, while it would not tend to satisfy the feelings of the Catholic body to accede to this motion; but he decidedly differed from that Right Honourable Gentleman. For if, even upon his own statement, the Catholic people were under the influence of agitators, the best mode of taking them out of the hands of those agi tators would be to prove on the part of Parliament a disposition to consider the claims and to redress the grievances of that body, especially as the object of the Petitioners was to remove complaints in which the Catholic people could have no other interest than that which they felt towards the higher orders, whose gratitude could not be questioned if reasonable concessions were granted. On these grounds he trusted that the House would decide in this case rather from judgment than feeling, without reference to the irri tation on either side, and that the Catholic body evincing an inclination to sacrifice whatever was not essential to their doctrines, in order to conciliate their Protestant brethren, an arrangement would take place satisfactory to all parties. It would be recollected, that in going into the proposed Com mittee. the House would not stand pledged to the Resolutions brought forward by his Honourable Friend, of to any other course of proceeding, it being competent to any Member to propose any measure he might think proper, and under such circumstances he hoped that the proposed Committee would be acceded to. If not, he could not help thinking that the House would be betrayed into the abdication of a great and important public duty. Mr. Bathurst defended the line of conduct of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel), from the animadversions of the last speaker, and strongly objected to the mode adopted by the Hon. Baronet who had introduced the question. It was the first time he recollected the introduction of a proposition of this kind, by producing to the House a series of resolutions, not for their consideration, but for their unqualified approval. To add to this inconsistency, they were called upon to go into the proposed Committee, not to acquiesce in the sine qua non of the Petitioners, but to see how far they could deviate from it. He was quite hostile to such a course of proceeding; for instead of tending to conciliate those in whose behalf the proposition was urged, it would only lead to their further irritation. Nor would he ever concur in any measure of this description, until the respectable class of the Roman Catholics stept forward to rescue themselves from the thraldom of those who were meeting, with an avowal of ingratitude, the interposition of the Legislature in the adjustment of their claims. With respect to the argument of securities, an extraordinary position had been taken by the supporters of the motion-that securities were best obtained by requiring none. Besides, in the Committee, quite a different proposition was to be considered from that which they set out with seeking. In defence of this cause, it had been argued that certain concessions, which were on all sides admitted, could not be obtained without a committal. Of this he was not quite certain; but even if it were the case, the consideration should, from its onset, assume the plain import it had in view, and not, SUPP. ORTHOD. JOUR. VOL. III. in its progress, be transformed into a different shape. The Right Honour able Gentleman compared the present motion with that of 1813, and argued, that if the latter were deemed unconciliatory, what reason was there to expect that a different feeling was likely at present to pervade the minds of the Petitioners ? He would therefore oppose the motion, being of opinion that its adoption would only lead to a still further alienation of the people, whose rights, as they were termed, it was so essential to conciliate. Lord Binning declared his intention to vote for the Committee, although he should vote against the Resolutions proposed by the Honourable Baronet. He would vote for the Committee in the hope of having some arrangement suggested, which should be calculated to answer an end, for the success of which he was strongly anxious: for he wished to have ample justice done to the Catholics, without prejudice, however, to the Protestant establishment, He did not take such a narrow view of this great question, as to allow his mind to be influenced by the indiscretion of Mr. O'Connell, or of any other advocate of the Catholic cause, for he could not reconcile it with common equity, to sacrifice on such grounds the just claims of the Catholics of Ireland and England. He regretted that the conduct of this question had been withdrawn from that distinguished individual (Mr. Grattan), by whom it had been heretofore managed with such ability and effective conciliation; and he also regretted to find, that the Petition before the House was not signed by any of those respectable names which had usually been annexed to such Petitions. Recurring to the Resolutions, he particularly disapproved of that which proposed to institute a new oath, after a different oath had alrea dy been sanctioned by Parliament, and subscribed by the great body of the respectable Catholics, who had, he was persuaded, no objection to it. There was an omission in the new oath D which struck him as very extraordinary. The Noble Lord concluded with expressing a hope, that the day was not far distant when all ground of religious distinction between this country and Ireland would be done away, and when all his Majesty's subjects would be cordially united in opposition to the common enemy. Mr. Bankes had never before heard any persons state their rights in this broad manner. They said that they would give no security to the Established Church: but it would be impossible for the House, either now or at any other time, to grant them those claims which they demanded, until the church of Rome should entertain different opinions of those whom it called heretical. Until that time should arrive, Parliament would not consent to invest that body with political power. Those who professed the established religion had a right to say, we cannot give you any extension of privileges, unless you are willing to give us security. Some of the most intelligent men in the country had endeavoured to form something tending towards satisfactory security; but that which we looked upon as a panacea was treated as an abomination. To say that the House would go into a Committee, merely to vote against every one of the propositions, would be insulting to the Catholics; but as their petition was totally uncoupled with any securities, they could not expect that the House would grant their claims. Lord Castlereagh said that it was not his intention to occupy the time of the House at any length, but he could not consent to suffer the present question to go to a vote, without stating the precise view which he entertained of it. It was his solemn conviction that in bringing it forward in the manner it was now produced, the ultimate success of the measure would be rather retarded than advanced. His opinions upon the subject were in no degree varied from those which he had pronounced on former occasions, and he was thoroughly convinced that any measure of concession, unless founded upon the general and comprehensive principle heretofore discussed and ad. mitted, would (if not pregnant with danger to the state) at least fail in all those conciliating qualities which it was so essential to regard. With respect to the manner in which the intentions of the Legislature, during the last Session, were met by the Ca. tholics of Ireland, he had no hesitation in saying, that if the ultimate decision of the question depended upon his individual judgment, he should not discourage the giving effect to that measure, even though it were met, on the part of the people of Ire land, by the most extensive dissatisfaction. He did not conceive that on any great measure of state, the people were generally qualified to estimate its fitness or propriety at the moment of adopting it, when their passions and interests were strongly excited or alarmed. When, therefore, he looked to the speeches of individuals in Ireland, who now managed the affairs of the Catholics, and when he looked to their conduct, he might regard them as obstacles to the immediate accomplishment of measures of general relief, but certainly not as containing in them any thing dangerous. He had always been of opinion, that the ques tion of concession, if granted with those securities which were essential to it, would never confer upon the Catholics that quantum of power which could render them dangerous in admitting them into the Constitution. As to the present moment, however, in which their claims were brought forward, it was impossible observe the studied pains that had been taken to withdraw their Petition from the hands of one who had conducted their cause through all the conflicts and enmities of party, with a judg ment, a temper, and a moderation, that had won the homage of all sides, however opposed in their views, with out feeling that the measure now introduced, was distinctly meant as a mea. |