mitting the export of corn from Ireland in- Mr. D. Giddy allowed that it would be The house then resolved itself into the committee. A long discussion ensued on the first clause. Mr. Giles and Mr. Windham contended that it was absurd to provide for supplying a deficiency in the Militia to the extent stated in the bill, without the possibility of previously knowing whether or not the volunteering into the line would be so complete as to occasion that deficiency. Lord A. Hamilton was by no means satisfied that the different militia' regiments would furnish the quotas required from them for the line; without speaking positively as to the fact in general, he knew one regiment which failed in furnishing its quota. Mr. Parnell said, that he wished to set himself right in the conception of the house, in a few parts of his statement, in which he had been misapprehended. He was always aware that bank paper was Lord Castlereagh could see no difficulty not a legal tender, and he thought he had in disposing of the supernumeraries in the guarded against the appearance of any in- Militia, even should it turn out, which he tention of making it so, as his words were did not think it would, that the volunteer"as legal a tender in Ireland as in Eng- ing into the line would not be so extenland," not simply a legal tender. As to sive as the present bill anticipated. They what the right hon. gent. opposite (Mr.might be added to the existing companies, Foster) had said, his whole argument was or formed into additional companies. founded on a misconception. When he proposed to call in the coin, he did not intend that it should be done until new coin was prepared to supply its place. As to what had been objected against the assimilation of the coin, &c. as inadequate to keep down the exchange, they would find that it had succeeded in Scotland; and with respect to the objection of time, the present state of exchange, as he had said before, rendered it peculiarly appropriate. The motion was then negatived without a division. Colonel Wood observed, that in a regiment which he had the honour to command, the quota to be furnished by the bill would not even supply the deficiencies occasioned by the volunteering, for the latter amounted to 550, while the former did not exceed 531 men.-The clause was eventually agreed to. The next clauses related to the ballot. Mr. Giles opposed the ballot, as produetive of great mischiefs. Lord Castlereagh defended the introduction of it in the bill before the committee. [MILITIA COMPLETION BILL.] The He had been induced to extend the period order of the day having been read for before which the ballot was not to be regoing into a committee on the Militia Com-sorted to, from six to twelve months; but pletion Bill, lord Castlereagh moved, that the house do now resolve itself into the said Committee. Lord A. Hamilton repeated his objections to the bill, on the ground of the pledge which had been given to the country in a former bill, which pledge the adoption of the present bill would forfeit. Lord Castlereagh replied, that no such pledge had ever been given. As the best proof of this, he observed that he had introduced into the present bill words precisely similar to those in the bill alluded to by the noble lord, without the least intention that those words should carry with them any thing like a pledge. He should not consider it consistent with his public duty to make a proposition which should so tie up the future discretion of parlia ment, he was completely of opinion, that if in the latter time the number of men required were not furnished by means of recruiting, it would be unwise not to secure them by other means. Mr. Windham ridiculed the expectation that the recruiting could proceed successfully with a small bounty, while the men willing to enlist had in prospect the period when the operation of the ballot would necessarily cause a great augmentation of bounty. The argument of the noble lord was, as if he should say to such men. Come, come, my lads, make haste, take 12 guineas, for if you don't, you will be very soon compelled to take 40.”—(A laugh.)-Nothing could be more unfounded than the hopes that under circumstances like these the recruiting would flourish. Mr. Giles objected to this as the worst possible mode of recruiting the army, and by no means to be compared to recruiting by the officers of government. Lord Castlereagh maintained the clause as a fundamental part of the present military system of the country which preferred the ballot to recruiting by other means. He contended that the former was the surer mode of raising the men, and confessed he was not daring enough to try the experiment of recruiting recommended by the hon. gent. The experiment for one year was all he durst venture upon. Mr. Giles explained. Whether friend to the ballot, or recruiting, he would equally object to the noble lord's plan and take the sense of the house upon the present clause. The committee then divided, For the original clause Majority 52 12 -40 On re-entering we found sir J. Montgomery proposing that recruits for militia regiments might be raised in the counties adjoining to that to which they belonged; which, after some observations, was agreed to take this opportunity of expressing his opinion upon the reports already made by these Commisioners. He said, that he did not think the report upon the assessed taxes was such a one as the great defects in the manner of collecting them called for. That the Commissioners had not brought to light the abuses that notoriously prevailed, nor given any advice by which the system might be amended. He wished that they would review the subject of collecting these taxes, and suggest what might appear to them necessary for rendering them more productive. The other reports contained a large portion of very important information, and did credit to the zeal of the Commissioners. He wished, however, to know, whether the abuses they exposed had been put down, and whether the recommendations of reform contained in them had been acted upon. In the Custom departments they shewed great irregularities to have existed in the conduct of the officers employed to superintend the coasting trade, and to take care of goods landed on bilis of view -a sum of 200,000l. having been lost to the public by goods taken away from the Custom-house, without payment of duty. -They likewise found great fau with the system in which the collector's accounts were ordered to be kept, and with the jurisdiction of the Sub-Commissioners. In the Excise department, they funy proved that where a revenue of 700,000 had been collected on spirits, one of 2,200,000l. ought to have been levied. This was a matter of great importance, because it proved beyond a doubt that, if this duty was properly collected, no necessity would exist of any such tax as that proposed this year on malt. The Commissioners, as a remedy for illicit distillation, had proposed the adoption of small stills, as used in Scotland, a remedy that appened to be the only effectual one that could be adopted. The hon. member said, it was absolutely necessary that something should be done immediately to meet the evil, for that one county had been fined at the last assizes 5,000l. He said that the existing laws were very defective, inasmuch as they imposed very heavy fines on illicit distillation, at the same time they obstructed legal distillation, by giving great encouragement to large stills, which requiring very great capital, could not be set to work in the counties where the illicit distilling was carried on, for want of sufficient capital. He next adverted to the Auction duty, which appeared to give no produce whatever. But the most important matters in the reports of these Commissioners, was a recommendation that all revenue officers should be promoted in succession, and acccording to merit, for without adhering to such a system, it was impossible to collect the revenue; the greater part of the abuses arose from the improper manner in which appointments took place, and therefore he hoped that this advice would be strictly adopted. He thought it extremely hard upon the different boards of Commissioners that they should not be left at liberty to select and promote their own officers, and that, unless they had this power, it was impossible that they could discharge their duty in the manner they ought to do. He by no means intended to attach blame to the present boards, for any thing that these reports contained, because he did not know how far measures had been taken by them to remove the abuses complained of, or whether they had had the means of preventing them. Mr. Foster said, that in respect to the assessed taxes, the sub-commissioners, and the distilleries, it was his intention to bring forward measures immediately for meeting the complaints contained in the reports. That steps had been taken with good effect already to do away the abuses that existed in the coasting trade, landing goods on bills of view, and the collection of the auction duties. That the mode of stating the collectors accounts was very truly pointed out as defective, and that measures should be adopted for reforming it. That in respect to the conduct of the inferior officers of the revenue, he should propose to grant an amnesty of all transgressions up to the period of the late regulations for increasing their salaries, nearly the whole of them having taken fees under the former system, in consequence of the smallness of their salaries and legal emoluments. That, however, it was the fixed determination of the government to act without any regard to persons and services in punishing any officer who should hereafter take a fee. The right hon. member said that in regard to the distilleries, he had last year, in compliance with the wishes of many persons, admitted stills of 800 gallons to be used, but that it would answer no end to make any alteration in the existing laws till a complete reformation took place in the conduct of the inferior officers; that he was glad the hon. member had sought for the information he had desired, as it gave him an opportunity of fully justifying the policy of the present bill. Col. Archdall said, that it was absolutely necessary that something should be done to put down the illicit distillation, and protect the people of his part of the country from the great rigor of the distilling laws. Col. Barry said, it was with great reluct ance he ever differed from his right hon. friend, but he must say that be thought the fining of counties for illicit stills discovered in them was a most unjust proceeding. That 15,600/. had been ordered to be levied in his county, and that if payment of it is enforced that it will ruin many poor families. He therefore thought that it was absolutely necessary that something should be done immediately to relieve the people from such enormous penalties. Mr. O'Hara expressed the same opinion. -The bill was then read a second time. [BANKRUPT LAWS BILL.] The house having resolved itself into a Committee on the Bankrupt Laws Amendment bill, Sir S. Romilly, in order to obviate an objection, which he understood was to be made to the clause for allowing bankrupts who may have obtained their certificates to be witnesses, without any release of their allowances, in cases where their assignees were claimants, proposed an amendment, to provide that bankrupts were not to be allowed to be admitted as witnesses under this act, but in such cases wherein they may by law be competent witnesses before the passing of this act.-The effect of this amendment was to allow bankrupts to be witnesses upon releasing their interest in the particular matter in issue, without a general release of their allowances upon the other property assigned under the commission. A long discussion ensued both on the clause and the amendment, in which the Attorney and Solicitor General, and Mr. Davies Giddy, expressed strong doubts of the propriety of making any inroad upon the law and rules of evidence as they exist at this moment; and sir Samuel Romilly, Mr. Stephen, Mr. Jacob, Mr. Morris, and sir Charles Price, argued, in substance, that it was desirable to adopt the clause thus amended, in order to do away the practice of giving nominal releases by fictitious instruments which were afterwards to be concealed, and to prevent, if the release were real, the bankrupt from being obliged to give all he would in that case possess in the world, for the purpose | to the Chancellor. Whilst,, on the other of becoming a competent witness. The hand, it was most strenuously contended amendment was, however, in the end by Mr. Abercromby, that this was the agreed to, and the clause so amended re- most beneficial clause in the bill, because tained as a part of the bill.-On the clause no certificate would be granted upon an for requiring creditors to release all right appeal, unless it should appear to the of action, on proving their debt under a Lord Chancellor that the creditors have commission of bankruptcy, the Attorney no good ground for withholding it; and General stated that he had some objections it appeared from an account on the table, to this clause, but should wave them, as that out of 16,000 persons, who had been he understood that his hon. and learned bankrupt within the last twenty years, friend intended to obviate them by a clause, 6,597 were uncertificated, and could never which would provide against a creditor's acquire any property for themselves or releasing his right of action against a their families, unless this clause should be third party, where he had such right, as enacted to place them within the reach well as such bankrupt, and to prevent of relief. the creditor from releasing his right of action against the future effects of a bankrupt, whose dividends under a second commission of bankruptcy should not amount to fifteen shillings in the pound. -On the clause for authorizing the Lord Chancellor, or the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, for the time being, to direct notices, other than personal notices, to be served upon creditors in England and Ireland reciprocally, upon appeals by petition on the part of a bankrupt, to whom his creditors should after two years continue to refuse his certificate, a member took some trifling objections, which, after a few observations from sir Samuel Romilly and the Solicitor General, were over-ruled, sir Samuel Romilly having previously stated his intention to bring in a clause, after the bill should be gone through, providing that in all such cases such other notice should under English commissions be given in the Dublin Gazette to Irish creditors, and under Irish commissions of bankruptcy to English creditors in the London Gazette. On the clause giving to the Lord Chancellor or the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, the power to grant a certificate on such appeal by the bankrupt, if the certificate should appear to have been withheld by the creditors from improper motives, another long discussion took place, the Attorney General and Mr. Jacob contending that it was more fit that the power of granting or withholding the certificate should be vested in the creditors or in some proportion of them, than in any other tribunal, because the creditors must be the best judges whether the bankruptcy was fraudulent, though it might not at all times be in their power to prove the grounds upon which they were of this opinion, on an appeal by the bankrupt VOL. XIV. Mr. Stephen contended that the great proportion of uncertificated bankrupts being three-eighths of the whole number, proved that the interference of parliament was necessary. This proportion was much the greatest in years of unexampled misfortune; and this circumstance went strongly to prove, that it was not merely the dishonesty of debtors, but their misfortunes, which were punished by stopping their certificates. The Solicitor General contended that it was better that, according to the law as it now stands, the bankrupt's certificate should depend on the judgment of the creditors than of the Lord Chancellor. He cited to this effect the opinions of lord Thurlow, lord Rosslyn, and lord Clare, who had been all of them chancellors. He thought that in this bill humanity appeared to be confined to the bankrupts, and that the sufferings of the creditors had not been sufficiently attended to. If, however, the clause should be rejected, he would move that instead of four-fifths of the creditors, three-fourths of the creditors, and of those only who had released the person of the bankrupt, should be sufficient for signing the certificate. Sir Samuel Romilly said, that the hon. and learned gent. had mis-stated what lord Eldon had said about the opinions of lords Thurlow, Rosslyn, and Clare. What they had said was, that it would be dangerous to leave the determination of the certificate entirely to the Chancellor. The present clause, however, did no such thing: it only empowered the Chancellor to interfere if he thought proper, upon a petition presented by a bankrupt who had been two years without his certificate. Now, as to fraudulent bankrupts, all those who had any experience in the court of chancery knew that they obtained their H of some HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday, April 20. [BREACH OF PRIVILEGE.] Sir Charles Hamilton presented a Petition from Daniel Butler, the Sheriff's officer, by certificate easier than the honest bank- The clause was then agreed to. Severupts. Fraudulent bankrupts always con- ral new clauses were afterwards brought trived to have false debts proved, in order up by sir Samuel Romilly and the Solito get themselves whitewashed, according citor General, and agreed to. The house to the common phrase. Their bankrupt-resumed; the report was received, and cies were for the purpose of gaining their ordered to be taken into further considercertificates; whereas honest bankruptsation this day se'nnight. had much oftener to endure the severity of the laws from the obstinacy or caprice one creditor. He allowed the people of England and the merchants of England were generally humane; but often great cruclties were practised, which the law should prevent. To say, that from the humanity of the English charac-whom he had been arrested, and who had ter these cruelties were not common, was in fact to say nothing. Neither were murders common, but that was no reason that there should not be laws against them. He could state one instance of cruelty to a bankrupt which came within his own knowledge. A bankrupt had been arrested at the suit of a house in the city, and one of the partners of that house was chosen the assignee. This assignee delayed for three years to make any sort of dividend, in order that the house might not be obliged to make its election about proving under the commission. At the end of three years, however he was obliged to make a dividend, but he then divided his debt, proving only one-half. This creditor had frequently been heard to declare, that the bankrupt should never go out of jail except to his grave, and his threat was accomplished. It having been stated to the Chancellor, that the bankrupt could not live more than two or three weeks longer in confinement, he appointed an early day to hear his petition; but though the decree was in favour of the bankrupt, the assignee contrived to have another detainer laid upon him, which gave rise to a more protracted litigation, and his debtor never did leave the jail but for his grave; and there was no doubt but the death of the bankrupt was owing to the obduracy of the creditor. He did not say that such cases were common, but that they should not be allowed to exist. The life of an honest man or his perpetual imprisonment, should not depend upon the caprice of partial judges, after the bankrupt had fairly surrendered his effects. Mr. Wilson said he was rather anxious not to admit this clause than to dispute it; but till he could put the bankrupt law on a footing which should protect the fair trader, he could not agree to adopt it. been confined in Newgate, in consequence of such a breach of the privileges of Parliament. The Petition stated, That the petitioner with all humility and contrition, most humbly begs pardon of the house, and particularly of sir Charles Hamilton, bart., the hon. member whom he so grossly and personally insulted on Wednesday the 12th day of this instant April, as appears by the Votes of the house as follows; "That, on Wednesday last, about half an hour after three of the clock in the afternoon, he was arrested in his own house by the said Daniel Butler (an officer of the Sheriff of Middlesex), and that he was insulted by him for endeavouring to convince him that he was not the person specified in the writ, in breach of the privileges of this house;" upon which Complaint the petitioner was by the house committed to Newgate; and that the petitioner has been an officer to the Sheriff of Middlesex ten years, in which situation he trusts he has conducted himself with the strictest propriety; and intentionally to give any offence, or to attempt to arrest any hon. member of this house, is the last thing he could think of, well knowing how they are privileged; but this unfortunate mistake arose from the instruction he received from a brother-officer, who requested the petitioner to execute the said writ for him, it being a practice for one officer to oblige another in that way; and the petitioner had a paper to that effect in his hand when at the bar of the house on Friday last; and that the petitioner, after he was so committed, in the lobby of the house expressed his sorrow and contrition to the said sir Charles Hamilton for the great offence he had committed on his person in so arresting him for another baronet of the said name, the writ being for a sir John Charles Hamilton; and the petitioner begs to state that he has a wife and seven |