house applied the remedy, by disfranchising all those voters so convicted, and calling others, their neighbours from the adjacent districts, to supply their places as electors. Sir, upon the present occasion, I must differ entirely from my right hon. friend (Mr. Windham), when he says he objects to the measure, under the appre

[MR. CURWEN'S REFORM BILL] Mr. Curwen moved the order of the day, for resuming the adjourned debate, on the bill for the prevention of the sale of Seats in parliament. The Speaker explained. that the question was, that he do now leave the chair.

Sir John Newport rose and spoke as follows:-Sir, I have always thought the subject now under consideration to be at any time of the greatest importance to this country. I think it to be particularly so at a period such as the present. I have always been anxious that Reform should originate in this house; considering, that within these walls it could best be effected, and with the best and most happy consequences. I have ever been anxious, that we should afford no pretext for complaint against us, to those without doors; and for this purpose I have supported measures which seemed likely to produce so desirable an object, by giving full effect to the spirit of the Grenville Act. To make regulations for the direction of its conduct, or the reform of its defects, is a privilege which this house constitutionally possesses, and which it has often beneficially exercised. I need only refer to the recent case of Aylesbury, in which this house asserted its own dignity, in which the members of this house shewed themselves worthy of being the protectors and representatives of a great people, by proving that this house is ever eager to apply a remedy to the abuses that appear before it. I conceive the present measure to be of the same nature, or nearly so with that, only this is intended as a means of preventing the recurrence of those evils in future, rather than of punishing or remedying the past. In that case, such was the corruption proved by the evidence before our committee to have existed, that the votes of the electors were openly bought and

I am sure a call will never be made on this house to take any step that may endanger the constitution. I am sure if such a call were to be made, it would and ought to be resisted. I am sure if a cry was attempted to be raised among the people, for the purpose of overawing the parliament, they would soon recover from their delusion, and the effect would only recoil on the heads of those who were instrumental in creating it. I firmly believe, that the best and only means of preventing the delusion of this house being unwilling to correct abuses, consist in its shewing itself ready and willing to amend itself, particularly by a measure which is prospective, and therefore most salutary, as well as best calculated to prevent the recurrence of the evil it professes to correct. The benefits likely to arise from this measure are peculiarly applicable to that species of representation, known by the description of Burgage Tenures.-It has been said, that the purchase of seats for such places, is essential for the introduction into this house of young men of superior talents, who otherwise might never find their way into it; on the contrary, Sir, I contend that it is more likely, that talents shall come among us when seats are to be acquired by character rather than for money; for then the people will naturally look out for such as shall appear worthy of their confidence. I find a splendid and striking example of this position in a neighbouring kingdom, to which it is my pride and my boast to belong. I allude to the conduct and practise of that revered character, the late earl of Charlemont. That nobleman it was who recommended to the borough in which he was supposed to have influence, the man I am proud to call friend, the friend of his country, the friend to human nature, Henry Grattan. He it was, that introduced this gentleman into parliament, not for his money, but for his worth, and shewing by such a selection, that in the exercise of his influence in the borough, he considered himself as holding a trust estate for the

public. This I heard him declare, at a public meeting, and thus had he conducted himself through the whole tenor of his life. Thus much I feel bound to say of a nobleman who is no more, but whose me. mory will live respected in the hearts of his countrymen. In the case before us, can we say it is not the wish of the people that some remedy should be applied? or, in admitting that it is, is it any disgrace to give way to that wish? To do so is not servility; it is to treat with proper respect the fair opinion of the public, duly and regularly expressed. We are not bound to surrender up our judgment to theirs; but we may surely doubt, when we find our opinions contrary to theirs. By looking at the matter in this point of view, we shall find our best support in the arduous circumstances of the present day; nor would Buonaparte wish for better support in his designs against this country, than that we should say, we would not attend to the voice of the people. It has been ever the pride and glory of our constitution, that it contains within itself the principle of its own renovation, and we should weigh well, whenever we find ourselves running counter to popular opinion, because, if ever there was a time when it was incumbent upon parliament to consult popular opinion, and to endeavour to acquire confidence by fair and legitimate means, it is the present. It is for this reason, therefore, that I take the liberty of suggesting, that we may attend to that opinion, in order that, if we find it in error, we may at least take pains to correct it. Sir, I will fairly own, that I think the people have reason to complain, that they are not sufficiently attended so. I do not mean to say, that we should adopt every speculation that may be promulgated; but we should at least shew that pains are taken to reform and correct those errors we condemn. We are called on to abolish what is called the trade of parliament! If a man comes into this house for money, he may be said to come as to a parliamentary lottery; the holder speculates, and the public pays the prize, whatever it is. Of these speculators, some are commercial, some professional persons; but the object of both is the same. Those who do not affect to apprehend danger from what they choose to term, a speculation, I would ask, has not the experiment been already tried, in the instance of the union with the sister country? By that measure, whether justifiable or not, the

representation of that country became popular by the annihilation of its close boroughs.-Here, then, we find a practical experiment on the very subject; and who is there will say that any evil has been the result of it? It is the pride and boast of the British constitution, that it contains within itself the power of repair, rather than the principle of degenerating into anarchy and confusion-differing in this from all the other states of civilized Europe. It is upon these grounds, without detaining the house longer, that I pay my tribute of respect to the hon. gent. who has brought forward this measure, convinced as I am, that it is as necessary as it is useful. I have no objection to the word Reform, as applied to this mode of remedying abuses, satisfied as I am, that it is a safe and certain mode of preventing what is called anarchical reform. I shall therefore give my vote for your leaving the chair.

Mr. William Smith said he concurred with the right hon. bart. who had just spoken, in regard to what he had said, relative to anarchical reform differing from parliamentary Reform, for the latter was a

reform that took place in parliament, itself, and carried into execution by the collective wisdom of the nation. He should not, however, scruple in saying, that, unless he believed that the measure under consideration would lead to somfething further, as he hoped it would, he should not even vote for its going into a committee. He was of opinion that, amongst the electors of this country, even amongst those best constituted, there was infinitely more corruption than any man wishing well to the country could desire to contemplate; and if that corruption were corrected, much would be done with regard to reform in parlia ment. It was a mere mockery, a gross and insulting mockery to say, that they shall not sell their votes one by one, when one individual was allowed to sell them all in the gross. He had no doubt that the hon. gent. who brought this measure forward, was actuated by the best intentions, as he thought it would be no inconsiderable step towards rectifying that degree of corruption to which parliament had sunk. But his own objection to the measure was, that it did not cut up that corruption by the roots but only lopped off a few branches from the worst parts of the constitution of parlia ment. The bill provided that every man

was

taking a seat in parliament shall take an oath that he has not promised to give, nor given any pecuniary consideration for it; but this could not be effectual, while it did not impose any oath upon the nominator to those Boroughs. Under these circumstances, the house of commons would still be under the same influence it before. He thought the original plan of reform, proposed by Mr. Pitt, was infinitely better, as it went to cut up the very sources of corruption, by providing that the power of nomination to boroughs should be taken from those persons who enjoyed it. The only objection he had to that former measure, was that compensation was offered to persons who had enjoyed a right they had no title to possess, but for the good of the public. No pecuniary recompense was due to a man who possessed the trust of sending members to parliament. The present bill did not propose to do away this source or foundation of corruption. There were three sources of temptation to a corrupt exercise of the elective franchise, dignity, influence, and money; but only the last of these was alluded to in the present measure, while the two former were still allowed to exist, and might be employed by the distribution of offices of the state, which were only to be obtained through the treasury of the country. The government of the country had it in their power still to treat with any man for dignity, and any country gentleman, whatever his circumstances might be, if he considered that he could ennoble his family, had only to go to the minister and say, "I can no longer receive money for my seat, in the open market, I therefore come to you to make the best bargain I can; and I have no objection to dispose of my seat for any office you can give, or for any dignity, either a baronetage or a peerage, which you can bestow." This was actually, therefore, inflicting an additional evil on the representation, and conferring additional benefit upon certain individuals, inclined to continue the traffic complained of. This narrowing of the market would be actually found to be an inconvenience in more ways than one. If Boroughs were to be purchased for money, government would find many competitors; but when dignities or influence alone could be received in exchange, they would have the market wholly to themselves. Unless the house knew the man who sent the member amongst them, the corruption that might take place was VOL. XIV.

more to be dreaded than that which could arise from the ostensible individual: because he stands forth before the public, and can be arraigned, if he errs in his vote, while the other lurks secretly behind the curtain, and pulls the wires by which the puppets are to be set in motion. As matters stood at present, he had no doubt that many men came into parliament, who had paid money for their seats, yet were still actuated by the best of motives. Some came in, merely for the purpose of obtaining that distinction which it gave them in society; and there were others, who, having no influence in elections, nor in public life, were inclined to come into parliament, even by such means, in order to render public service, and were actuated by the purest motives. If he could secure seats to such persons as these, even by the means now practised, he should not be one that would call for Parliamentary Reform. But what rendered some alteration necessary was, that there were some who made these purchases of seats, who might be inclined to make an ill use of them.-It was with great satisfaction and pride he saw many upon that side of the house, which formed the democratical part of it, who represented boroughs; and who although they might some day form a part of the other house, maintained boldly the right side of thousands of questions that were agitated. There were many commercial men, too, whose pursuits prevented them from forming connections with popular boroughs, and who had therefore, no other opportunity of coming into that house to signalize themselves in supporting the real interests and liberties of the country. If Parliamentary Reform were to lessen the number of such individuals, he should dread that loss as much as any man; but he was inclined to think that the agitation of this question would always be productive of good and if at any time he was again called upon to give an opinion upon that subject, he should do it at greater length. He believed, that unless an oath were introduced into the present bill, to exclude promises of dignities and influence, as well as money, it would have no beneficial effect; but with that amendment, it might lead to considerable advantage, by operating as a silent check upon ministers. At all events he was persuaded, that the bill coming, as it did, upon the backs of the transactions, which they had witnessed of late, must be pro

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