A. I don't know but fome of thefe individuals might be deputed for that purpose. Q. Was it for promoting an application to Parliament ? RICHARD BRINSLEY SHERIDAN, Efq, fworn, Q. Sir, do you know Mr. Horne Tooke, the prifoner at the bar? A. I do, Sir. Q. Have you ever feen him at any meetings held for the purpofe of obtaining a parliamentary reform ? A. I have met him certainly at feveral meetings held for the purpose of obtaining a parliamentary reform. Q. State what thofe meetings were? A. I have met him at different affociations in the year 1780, and I rather think, but I am not certain, at a convention or meeting to which delegates were fent from various parts of the kingdom, to confider of the beft means of obtaining a parliamentary reform. Q. What do you fay of delegates? A. Delegates met from different parts of the country and towns for the purpofe of obtaining a parliamentary reform, and to act for thofe who deputed them. Q. Perhaps you may be able to know the bufinefs better than me by being yourfelf a delegate of fome diftrict? A. I was for Weftminfler, with five or fix other gentlemen. Q. What was the nature of your delegation? A. The purpofe of our appointment was to act in concert with the other deputies or delegates, 'to correfpond with the other focieties affociated for the purpofe of a parliamentary reform, and certainly by all legal and conflitutional means, fo far to intereft and engage the public mind in that object, with an expectation certainly that the influence of public opinion would fo far operate upon the Houfe of Commons, that we might ultimately gain our object, without which influence or interpofition on the part of the people, we certainly had no hopes from the Houfe of Commons. 9. Did the inhabitants of Weftminster (fuch as were friendly to reform) leave it to the difcretion of their delegates how that object should be bett accomplished in a legal and conftitutional mode, which was the object of your delegation? A. In my opinion they confided the means to them entirely. Q. Confided the means to them entirely? A. Entirely. Q. Was Q. Was it not a thing as notorious as that I am fpeaking to you, that thofe delegates did act for other focieties, and not merely for themselves? A. I think we never figned any refolutions, or put forth any paper, in which we did not fign ourfelves acting for other people: Q. Is it poffible a perfon could belong to an affeciation, fuch. as you have defcribed, compofed of various perfons in delegated characters, and figning their names as delegates, without knowing they were acting for others? A. Certainly no perfon could act with them without knowing it, because he must be a perfon appointed by fome body or other. Q. You faid you had feen Mr. Horne Tooke at those meetings, which had for their object the obtaining a reform from Parliament-Did Mr. Horne Tooke diffent or affent to thofe propofitions made at those meetings? A. I don't recollect any inftance of Mr. Horne Tooke objecting to the general plan upon which we were all acting, and all affociated for. Q. Did Mr. Tooke come as a critic upon your proceedings, or affift and aid you in your object? A. I apprehend he came for the fame purpose we all did. A. I fhould think he muft be. Mr. Erfkine. What number might there be of delegates ? A. At one time a very confiderable number, from a great number of refpectable counties,-Yorkshire, York, Devonfhire, and a number of Members of Parliament were there. Q. Were you delegated to confider the language in which a petition fhould be drawn up, or delegated to confider generally how a reform fhould be obtained? A. Certainly we confidered ourselves as delegated generally to pursue the best and the strongeft legal means to obtain our object. Q Was the act of petitioning, the time when, and the mode, and to whom the petition fhould be addreffed, left to the delegates ? A. Certainly-we were very much of opinion, except as to the form of the thing, that petitions, until they came from the whole body of the people, were perfectly frivolous and useless. Q. You were very much of opinion that petitions, until they came from the whole body of the people, would be frivolous and useless? A. We were. Q. Of that opinion with the Duke of Richmond ? 2 A. Certainly. A. Certainly. Q. You met as delegates to collect the public fentiments upon that head? A. Undoubtedly-conceiving we should have delegates or deputies to meet in a much larger meeting-a convention from all parts of the kingdom. Q. At that meeting which was to operate upon the House of Commons, was it intended to do any thing like rebellion? A. Certainly not any thing like violence or force, but we did intend to create a degree of awe and refpect for our proceedings, not wrongly or improperly, but a degree of awe which the House of Commons muft have a refpect for, and must pay when prefented by the whole voice of the people. Q. That was your purpofe and hope? A. That was my purpofe and hope. Mr. Horne Tooke. Does Mr. Sheridan recollect the 14th of July, 1790, the first meeting that was called as an anniversary of the French revolution? 4. I recollect perfectly attending a meeting at the Crown and Anchor, which was an anniverfary meeting,, to celebrate taking the Baftile, or the French revolution, and the acceptance of the conftitution by the King of France-I attended that meeting. Q. Do you recollect who took the chair? A. Lord Stanhope, I think. Q. In what year? A. In the year 1790. Q. Does Mr. Sheridan recollect that on that day and in that place, at the Crown and Anchor, Lord Stanhope being in the chair on the day of the anniverfary, he made a motion in these words, or to this effect-" That this meeting does moft cordially rejoice in the establishment and confirmation of liberty in France, and that it beholds with peculiar fatisfaction, the fentiments of amity and good will which appear to pervade the people of that country towards this kingdom, efpecially at a time when it is the manifeft intereft of both ftates that nothing fhould interrupt that harmony that at prefent fubfifts between them, and which is fo effentially neceffary to the freedom and happiness not only of the French nation, but all mankind ?" A. I recollect moving a refolution myfelf, and having no copy or recollection of it, till I heard it mentioned by Mr. Erskine, but I conceive that is word for word, the refolution which I moved and wrote. Q. Does Mr. Sheridan recollect that I being there prefent made no objection to the motion, but expreffed à ftrong defire fome qualifying expreffion might be added to this motion refpecting the French revolution; did I exprefs my full appro bation of that motion-did I, or did I not at that time mention the danger of the mifinterpretation of others not friendly to the liberty of France? A. I should apprehend the motion that was moved by me was not haftily drawn up; I went with a great number of gentlemen of the Whig Club-I remember at the meeting the day before, for information of the ftewards refpecting this meeting, when Earl Stanhope was to be in the chair, it was faid, there might poffibly be fome motion in which we should not like to be mifreprefented; it was defired to be done by me, and drawn up for the purpofe-it was moved foon after dinner, and received with very great approbation. Lord Prefident. Did Mr. Tooke object to the refolution? A. Mr. Horne Tooke did not immediately object to the resolution, but when he rose he first of all proposed an amendment to it; I recollect his ftating it was an unqualified motion and approbation of the French revolution, and in the terms I have mentioned, that it might produce an ill effect out of doors, that it might induce a difpofition to a revolution in this country, or if it did not produce that effect, that at least it was capable of being mifreprefented, fo as to be flated to have that object and intention; I think I recollect perfectly well Mr.Tooke's adverting in his fpeech to all the gentlemen at the meeting having national cockades, which we all had; and his arguing the neceffity of qualifying our approbation of the French revolution, and establishment of liberty in France, with a declaration in favour of the principles of our own conftitution. I remember the fact more accurately-His argument was the neceffity of qualifying our approbation of the French revolution, and of eftablishing liberty in France, with a declaration of our attachment to the principles of our own conftitution-I was going to add, I remember perfectly well his fpeaking in a figurative manner in defcribing the form of government in France as a veffel fo foul and decayed, that no repair merely could fave it from deftruction; I cannot be pofitive to the very words, but they were to that purport-I am quite pofitive of the very terms he used in contrafting it with our flate-he faid, thank God, the main timbers of our conftitution are found, having before stated many reforms were neceffary, and would be of fervice. Lord Prefident. Having before obferved that a reform was neceffary? A. That a reform was neceffary. I remember the converfation or debate more accurately from thefe fentiments of Mr. Horne Tooke having been received by viclent people, or people that miftook his intention, with great difapprobation, and and with very rude interruption, fo much fo that I believe Lord Stanhope interfered to preferve order. Mr. Attorney General. Without fome qualified approbation of the French revolution, and cftablishment of liberty in France, it might produce a revolution in this country? A. No, that the proceedings might be liable to that obferva tion. Mr. Horne Tooke. Does Mr. Sheridan recollect, or does he think that is the only time Mr. Sheridan remembers me in different meetings to have met with very great difapprobation from very large companies? 4. In very many public meetings I have had the misfortune to differ and oppofe Mr. Horne Tooke; I have very frequently feen him treated with very great marks of difapprobation, but never faw him much affected. Q. Was it after the other motion was carried that I moved this refolution" That this meeting feel equal fatisfaction that the fubjects of England by the virtuous exertions of their ancestors have not fo arduous a tafk to perform as the French have had, but only to maintain and improve the conftitution their ancestors tranfmitted to them ?" A. I am apt to think Mr. Tooke propofed thofe words as an amendment; I oppofed them on this ground, that we met there to give our opinion of the eftablifhment of liberty in France, whom we conceived to be a conftant chemy to the country, I oppofed it as there might be people that would think that it was introducing debatable matter contrary to unanimity. I recollect Mr. Tooke withdrawing the amendment, and afterwards moved it as a diftinct propofition; and Mr. Tooke having overcome us by arguments, it, was then adopted with as much unanimity as my refolution had been before. Mr. Horne Tooke. I hope the Court has taken this last part of Mr. Sheridan's evidence Mr. Sheridan flated his motion was not fudim, but well deliberated before, for the purpofe of moderation, and I beg the Attorney General to obferve I moderated the moderator. Crofs-examination by Mr. SOLICitor General. Q. Was you prefent in the year 1790, at this meeting for celebrating the anniverfary of the French revolution? A. I was. Q. At what time of the year? A. I think in July. Q. Can you recollect what title the meeting had? A. I do not-- I fhould think it was Friends to the establish ment of liberty in France. |