judge. As to the objection to solitary confinement on the score of the expense of building cells, surely the consideration of expense would not be urged, when they were called upon to put an end to a national disgrace. But some hon. Members might say, why interfere with the punishment now, when, by universal acknowledgment, year after year, the lash was falling gradually into disuse? This argument, if good for anything, was, he thought, favourable to the abolition of the punishment; for why preserve to courts

those which rendered them unworthy to remain in that regiment; and this he conceived to be a strong proof of the debasing nature of corporal punishment. He would not detain the House by any description of the barbarity of this punishment, or of the brutalizing influence which it must have on the minds of those subjected to it; on those points all, he believed, were pretty well agreed: then, surely, it was the solemn duty of Parliament to inquire, whether some efficient substitute might be provided for a class of punishments liable to such grave objec-martial a power the exercise of which was tions. For his own part, he was convinced, that such a substitute might be furnished in solitary confinement. That this latter would be the more efficient punishment for the reclamation of of fenders, he was justified in believing, from the result of many and anxious inquiries, and also from what had fallen under his own observation, with respect to the effect of the punishment in regiments in India. He remembered one instance, in particular, of a man in a regiment in India, in which he (Major Fancourt) had the honour to serve. He was sentenced to 300 lashes, and the commanding officer told him, that he might escape the infliction of the corporal punishment if he would submit to three weeks' solitary confinement. The man said, he would rather undergo the lashes. He was aware it was unusual to give such an option; indeed, the practice was subsequently repressed by Lord Hastings, the then Commander-in-Chief; and he merely mentioned the fact as illustrative of the horror with which the soldier contemplated the punishment of solitary confinement. It might, perhaps, be said, that this case went to prove the small degree of apprehension with which the soldier regarded the infliction of the lash, but he begged further to add, that the man in question was an old offender, and, in his case, as in almost every other, it might be confidently asserted, that a man once subject to the lash, so far from being reclaimed, became a hardened and incorrigible of fender. At present, the punishment of solitary confinement in the hands of regimental courts-martial, was limited to twenty days; if substituted for the lash, it might be extended in duration, and accompanied with circumstances of severity with reference to diet and other things, as the court-martial should adVOL. XXII. {id}

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yearly decreasing? Unless necessary for practical purposes, why should the soldier labour under the degrading consciousness of its existence? If the army, by the progressive improvement of its men, or by the more temperate and judicious decisions of its courts, could dispense with the odious practice, was not that an additional reason for consulting the national feeling, which justly revolted at the subjecting a British soldier to the lash? He, for one, thought so; and when hon. Gentlemen talked of the yearly decrease of the punishment, he found in their argument an additional reason for its total and final abolition. But to return to the question of the substitute: if by this term was meant the substitution of one system of savage torture for another, then he would at once confess, that he had no substitute to propose; but, that a class of punishments fully adequate for the enforcement of military duty, and, at the same time, offering no outrage to humanity or natural feeling, might be adopted, he was fully convinced. The House was not, probably, aware, that there already existed in the army a class of secondary punishments, which, in addition to the solitary confinement of which he had already spoken, would, he thought, leave little to be desired in this respect. Such were the forfeiting of all advantages as to additional pay or to pension on discharge, confinement to barracks, extra duties, and other punishments of a like nature,-all, be it observed, exceedingly vexatious to the offender, while they excited none of that commiseration in the minds of his fellow-soldiers which was caused by the infliction of the lash. To these he might add, what, he thought, would be an equally just and efficient punishment-namely, the withholding the soldier's daily pay on every occasion on I

necessary to trouble the House. Many Gentlemen, officers of the army and others, though favourable to the principle of abolishing the practice of flogging, seemed to consider the power of inflicting

which the regiment was deprived of his services, either by drunkenness or misconduct, on such occasions putting him for the time on prisoners' diet. In the instance of an incorrigible offender, he could not but think, that expulsion with igno-it as necessary during active service, or miny from the army would be the pre- during the line of march. Now, what was ferable course in every point of view. If the fact? A man flogged under such cirit were true, that flogging seldom, if ever, cumstances, was necessarily disabled for reclaimed a man,-nay, that on the con- a considerable time-he was laid on the trary, it caused a reckless abandonment hospital carts an object of sympathy, of character, so that the soldier once sub-rather than a salutary example, to his jected to the punishment, became com- fellow-soldiers. The course adopted by paratively hardened to it, and, conse- the French army was, he thought, much quently, to the offences by which it was more efficient. The offender was ordered incurred if this were true, then what to the rear, treated as a prisoner, handpossible advantage could be gained either cuffed during the day's march, and at by the infliction of the punishment in the night confined in the gaol of the town at first instance, or by retaining such a per- which the regiment halted, till at the end son in the regiment at all? Granting of the journey he was formally tried and that the pernicious influence of such a sentenced to such further punishment as man should be productive of no contami-the nature of his offence might demand. nating effects, a supposition scarcely pos- It might, perhaps, be urged, that offenders sible, still a well-conducted body of men would regard such a punishment with had just cause of complaint if one or more indifference-that, in fact, it would be incorrigible offenders, notorious for dis- matter of indifference to them if they were regard of duty, were suffered to remain ordered to the rear or not. Such an aramong them. The self-respect of the gument might be applicable, were being soldier must necessarily be lowered by ordered to the rear the full amount of such a course. But how different would their punishment; but it was to be remem be the result were ignominious expulsion bered, that in addition to being cut off adopted as the extreme punishment! Not from all communication with their fellowonly would the regiment get rid of an soldiers during the day, and confined in incorrigible offender, but his comrades gaols at night, they had before them the would be made to feel, that an obstinate certainty of trial, and the probability of adherence to unsoldierlike and disgraceful severe punishment at the end of the conduct, rendered a man unworthy of re-march; so that the period looked forward maining one of their body. The moral effect of such a course was, he thought, self-evident. But some hon. Members would say, this is beginning at the wrong end; you must first persuade a superior class of men to enlist before you can bring the soldier to this lofty sense of his duty. With great submission, he (Major Fan-paired,-a point not unworthy of remark court) thought, that they never would be while considering the case of a soldier on able to recruit their army from a class of active service. As the experience of officers men superior to the present, until they might be quoted, he begged, in corroborremoved the disgraceful badge which now ation of the view which he had taken of distinguished the soldier from the citizen this subject, to allude to some very strik-namely, his liability to the lash; and ing observations in a work published by he further ventured to affirm, that this Lieutenant Shipp, of the 87th regiment. humane and necessary step once taken, He was not about to allude to any case of they would find respectable persons in the cruelty, but he thought, that even those working and middle classes, not only who were unacquainted with this officer's willing, but anxious to embrace a profes-distinguished services in India would hardly sion presenting many advantages. There was only one more point connected with this question, with which he thought it

to by others as one of comparative relaxation, presented to the mind of the delinquent the fear of rigid investigation, and such farther punishment as the nature of the offence might demand. By this means, also, while undergoing his punishment, the man's efficiency was unim

question his experience, when they were informed that he raised himself from the rank of a private soldier to that of a com

the distraction of his mind? Have they ever heard the unintimidated and unbiassed opinions of the soldiers in their barrack-rooms respecting the ignominious lash? If not, they are but half-competent judges on this great question." He had thought it right to submit these few considerations to the House. In so doing, it had been his object to compress, within the shortest possible compass, any arguments or suggestions that appeared con

missioned officer. In the course of that gentleman's remarks on the practice of military flogging, he quoted ten instances, as having, out of many others, claimed his particular notice. In four out of these cases, the punishment of flogging was followed by habitual drunkenness and abandonment, till a premature death closed the offender's career. In five out of the remaining six cases, the soldier-like character and general efficiency of the soldier were utterly destroyed; while, in one in-clusive to his own mind, for he was well stance, and one only, the man was re- aware that the subject had been frequently claimed. But how was he reclaimed? before the House, and also that many hon. By the lash? No; but by a few words and gallant Members were qualified by of kind remonstrance from his colonel- long experience to propose the most effiby an unconditional remission of his sen- cient remedies, should the voice of Parliatence after he had been tied up to receive ment pronounce the present practice a deit, and by a promise, that if by his future cided evil. That it was so, he, for one, was conduct he should deserve promotion, it fully convinced; and he trusted that all those was open to him. This man had been who shared that opinion with him, would flogged into obduracy, but, even in that honour its expression with their support; stage of demoralization, he was subdued by so doing, they would consult the feelby a change of treatment from his supe-ings of a large majority of their fellowriors; and it was added, that, under such subjects, not less than the honour and true treatment, he became an exemplary soldier, interests of the army itself; nor, in his and deserved and obtained promotion. Now opinion, would such a course be productive he really thought, that, if the experience of any embarrassment to his Majesty's Goof officers was to guide them on matters vernment. It was true that, in the opinion of that nature, the testimony of one who, of the country, the practice of flogging like Lieutenant Shipp, had seen thirty- ought long since to have become obsolete; four years' of active service, passing, as he but he hoped the House would not regard himself said, through the several grada- this subject with the narrow views of protions, from the drum-boy upwards, should fessional prejudice, or as one at all inreceive attentive consideration. The hon. vested with party feeling. However happy Gentleman here read the following extract he should feel in seeing it intrusted to able from the Memoirs of Mr. Shipp:-"I am and influential hands, still he could not but fully persuaded, from my long experience, regard such a question as something more that flogging will never urge men to re-than a Ministerial one. It was, he conceived, formation; for I have ever observed, that it causes increased disobedience and discontent, and at last drives them to acts of sad desperation. Some of the vehement advocates for the cat also argue (but I think very fallaciously), that the minds of common soldiers are, from their early habits of life, barren and uncultivated, and hence more callous, and not so susceptible of the tenderer and nicer feelings, as those of the more enlightened. This is not quite so obvious to me, who have lived with them both boy and man. I would ask those who are enemies to the abolition of corporal punishment a few simple questions. Have they served in the ranks, and mixed and lived in social friendship with the private soldiers of our country? Have they ever sat at the bedside of a flogged man, and witnessed the agony of his heart, and

a national question, and he trusted it would be entertained and disposed of in that light only, and not with reference to the narrow views of professional prejudices or party predilections. He should now conclude by moving the resolution,-"That from and after the passing of this act, the punishment of flogging should be entirely abolished in the British army."

Mr. John P. B. Chichester seconded the Motion. He complimented the hon. and gallant Gentleman who had introduced this subject to the House on the very clear and able manner in which he had brought it forward. There was a universal feeling in the country that this punishment of flogging ought to be abolished. He was not a military man, and was, therefore, perhaps, not competent to speak on this matter, as it regarded discipline; but he could, at all

events, say, that, within the last ten years, not persisted in bringing forward the Moin the country districts in which he had tion of which he had given notice. That resided, objections to the system had been hon. Gentleman was even blamed for havbecoming more and more general, and ex- ing acquiesced in what were termed the isted now almost universally. With a vague assurances of his right hon. friend. view to the improvement of the moral con- It appeared to him, that, if the hon. and dition in the army, there ought, he con- gallant Member had accurately rememceived, to be changes and improvements of bered all that took place last Session on a character to keep pace with the advances the subject, he would have been better conthat had been made in civil society. In tent with his right hon. friend's conduct, support of this position, he hesitated not and with the conduct of the hon. member to appeal to hon. Members present who for Sheffield. He did not pretend to say, were of the military profession, and to the that any hon. Members were precluded former debates which had taken place from offering any proposition to the House, within the walls of Parliament. He would that, in their judgment, they might deterrefer to what passed with respect to picket- mine on; yet he must say, that, referring ing, a sort of punishment in the horse to what took place last Session, in his regiments, which was formerly in vogue, opinion, an understanding was come to, by tying a man up to the ceiling by his which precluded them from viewing this as wrists and placing his toe on a pointed an open question. But he would not speak stake driven into the earth; thus reducing with reference to the expression of the opinhim to the necessity of hanging his whole ion of the House last Session, and the course weight upon his wrists, or of running this upon that expression of opinion taken by spike into his toe. When it was proposed his Majesty's Government. At a late to abolish this punishment, several high period of the Session, a motion was made authorities, military men, declared that the by the hon. member for Middlesex, not discipline of the regiments could not be for the abolition of flogging as a general kept up if they were to be prohibited from proposition, but for its complete abolition having recourse to it. Their prophecies within the United Kingdom. It would be were disregarded, picketing was abolished; recollected that several hon. Members, and let him ask whether the discipline of who readily acceded to that motion so the army had suffered in consequence? limited, took occasion to declare, that, if The same species of reasoning might, in it had gone further-if it had extended the the year 1834, be applied to the abolition prohibition to foreign parts, where our inof flogging; and he had very little hesitation terests were in a more critical situationin stating it to be his opinion, that the fears they could not have gone along with the for the discipline of the service were fully hon. member for Middlesex in that extenas chimerical in this case as they were in sion. It was said, however, by other hon. the instance he had just referred to. He, Members, and with great force, that it therefore, most cordially seconded the would be perfectly inconsistent, and very Motion of the hon. and gallant Member. impolitic, if one system of punishment were allowed to exist in the army in this country, while another system existed in our army abroad; those, too, were to continue liable to the infliction of a punishment declared to be the more degrading, who were most exposed to dangers and hardships, and who were called upon for the greatest exertions in the discharge of their duties. Such being the state of opinion, a proposition was submitted to the House to limit the experiment, not locally

Mr. Robert Grant could not but congratulate the hon. and gallant Member who had brought forward the present Motion upon the great temper, moderation, and conciliatory spirit, with which he had submitted it to the House. He thought it necessary, standing officially as he did in the House, to call its attention to the true position in which the important subject now under its consideration really stood, because he thought that the hon. and gallant mover of the proposition now submit--not so as to have one system abroad and ted to the House had been guilty of an oversight in this respect. He was the more desirous of reminding the House of these circumstances, because it had been charged as a great omission on the part of the hon. member for Sheffield, that he had

another at home-but to confine it for the future to three classes of crime; viz., mutiny, drunkenness on duty, and theft. Upon this proposition of the hon. Baronet, the member for Westminster, the House divided, when there appeared in its favour

He

certainly a large minority-a minority so formally before the House, the experiment large, that his Majesty's Government felt had been fairly tried; secondly, whether, that an opinion thus expressed was enti- if the experiment had been fairly tried, it tled to considerable weight in their deli- was sufficiently so to enable them to judge berations. The Government had various of its effects; and it was only after these discussions on the subject, as he happened two questions had been discussed, that they to know, for he was called upon to take could consider the proposition made by the his share in them. Some time after-he hon. and gallant Member for the utter aboforgot exactly the date-a motion was lition of corporal punishment. He would venmade by the hon. member for Sheffield, in ture to say, that the debate of last Session, which he pledged himself that his Majes- on both sides of the question, gave suffity's Government meant to adopt a princi- cient reasons for not adopting the propople of restriction, agreeable to the general sitions now made by the hon. and gallant terms, almost of that restriction adopted by Officer. He maintained, that the experiwhat was almost a majority of that House. ments which the Government pledged Some few weeks elapsed before that pledge themselves to try, and which were embowas redeemed, the Government feeling died in the Circular issued from the naturally anxious to take every possible Horse-Guards, had been tried, and were precaution before they committed them- now in the course of trial; and he would selves to a change of such great import- further maintain, that they had not been ance. The question, then, was, whether sufficiently tried,—at least not so comthe instructions given in the circular issued pletely as to warrant the House to proby the military authorities at the Horse ceed further by way of change. Guards corresponded with, and amounted would not then read the circular, as it had to, the pledges given to the House last already been read. He observed, however, Session. He would bring to the recollec- that the hon. and gallant Officer comtion of the House the part which he took plained, that it was vague and unsatisfacin the discussion when the question was tory, and not agreeable to the pledges formerly before them. On that occasion given to the House. He (Mr. Grant), he had stated, freely and candidly, that he on the other hand, contended, that the felt himself absolutely bound by the mili-circular was of that general nature which tary authorities in regard to the orders to be issued by them on the subject of Corporal Punishment; and he hoped the House would give him equal credit for candor on this occasion, when he stated, on his own responsibility, now that the orders were issued, what their effects were. He would implore the House to pause before they rushed into the plan proposed by the hon. and gallant officer, and to consider what the effects of it would be. Having said this, he would proceed to state the grounds upon which he ventured to call upon the House to suspend their decision upon the question. It would be in the recollection of hon. Members, that when the hon. member for Middlesex brought forward his Motion last Session, it was entirely different from that which they had now to consider. The proposal of that hon. Member was neither more nor less than an experiment for the purpose of endeavouring to mitigate this species of Corporal Punishment, and it was restricted in its operation to Great Britain and Ireland. The question, then, for the House to consider was, first, whether, in the time that had elapsed since the question was

ought to be issued; and that it was entirely in unison with the pledge given to the House. The wish of the authorities was not to specify the punishment to be awarded to each particular offence; but to divide the offences into classes, and to specify the punishments to be awarded to each class. They wished, also, to restrict those classes to as small a number as possible. There was, for instance, mutiny; which, with all its subdivisions, was the subject of one class, and corporal punishment was awarded to it. The only difficulty in that class was, whether insubordination should be included in it; but it was considered proper that it should. The next class was that of disgraceful conduct; and corporal punishment was awarded to every offence which could be included under that head; for it was not thought that corporal punishment should be inflicted upon one person found guilty of an offence which could come within the denomination of disgraceful conduct, while another escaped. He need not remind the House of the aphorism, that disgraceful punishment should follow a disgraceful offence; for it was as old as the Roman