indignant and paffionate terms, the county meetings and petitions. He faid they originated merely in factious motives, and in factious motives too of the very worst complexion. They tended to ufurp the powers of government, and to compel parliament to conceffions of the most dangerous and unconftitutional nature; they were fet up as another eftate, unknown to the conflitution. They would, if not timely fuppreffed, lead to anarchy and public confufion. As yet they had been cautiously and artfully kept within the verge of the law, though, in fact, they reached to the very brink of rebellion. He denied that they were the sense of the nation at large; and he hoped, whatever malignant fpirit gave them birth, that it would be inftantly crushed. There was nothing but refolution and firmness, which he was perfuaded their lordships would never want, when their rights were attempted to be invaded, neceffary to fubdue them; and if he had no other reafon for oppofing the prefent motion in all its parts, he could find in his own mind a fufficient motive for giv. ing it a negative from its being fo nearly allied in principle and in object, to that factious, dangerous, innovating, and unconftitutional fpirit, which had given existence to the county meetings. -He concluded, by declaring he was fatisfied, that the prefent motion was framed in fuch a manner as must ensure it a negative, in order thereby to throw an odium upon administration, and give an opportunity to its friends and fupporters to enter a flaming proteft, which, being foon published, and making its way into the country, would ferve to foment and increase that fpirit of fedition and difaffection, which both the authors and friends of this motion wished to diffeminate through every part of the kingdom. The Such language and charges could not pafs without reprehenfion; but we shall first attend to the means used for removing the objections which were made to the motion upon its own bottom. The lords in oppofition expreffed their furprize, to hear the point of informality fo much laboured, and fo long dwelt upon, without the propofal of a remedy where it might be fo eafily applied, and without a fingle argument of any weight being brought against the main object of the motion, The noble framer, they faid, had avowedly left it open, in order to afford room for its being rendered palateable to all parties. principle of the motion, public reformation and national economy, formed the only objects of confideration; and it mattered nothing how it might be new framed, altered, and and modified, fo thefe were promoted. One fimple remedy was obvious and at hand, which would effectually remove that informality upon which fo much stress was laid, and that was a matter of no greater difficulty than merely omitting the words "both houfes ;" and the motion would then run-" That a committee be appointed." It was a mere matter of form; and upon a question of fo great importance, and a bufinefs of fuch evident neceffity, fuch paltry cavils were inexcufable, and even fhameful. With regard to the objection of interfering with the other house in money matters, they faid, that without entering at all into the queftion as an abftract propofition, and without any occafion for at all measuring the peculiar rights and privileges of either houfe of parliament, this objection would be as easily done away as the former. The fimple measure of a conference would equally remove every difficulty with refpect to both. All queftions with refpect to points of order, or exclufive privilege, would inftantly vanifh, when both houses agreed in principle, and united in opinion, upon the neceflity of a reform. But abftracted from that remedy, no noble lord prefent would deny, but that house had a right of enquiry in fuch matters, fo far as the difpofal of public monies came under their cognizance as a deliberative body; it fignified very little which houfe took up the bufinefs, fo that the object was obtained; the matter could not be finally fettled without the aid of an act of parliament; and in that cafe, either house had its power of affenting or diffenting to whatever came from the other. A noble duke on the fame fide, went ftill farther on that ground. He infifted, and with great ftrength of argument and knowledge of the fubject endeavoured to demonftrate, that the House of Lords was fully competent to enquire into the expenditure of public money; to examine and controul both its receipt and iffue; and to punih delinquents, if any fuch could be found. He cited examples to fhew that they had often exercised thofe powers; and declared, he never would fuffer the petty purposes of a faction to lead to a furrender of their inherent rights. The noble duke likewife ftrongly controverted the pofition held out on the other fide, that the article of exclufion propofed in the motion, was a libel upon the whole body of the peerage, and particularly fo upon the fervants of the crown. He argued, that the intended exclufion was formed upon the fpirit of the English conftitution, and upon the whole plan of English jurifprudence. The law, at least the common law of England, always excluded perfons from acting in any fituation which concerned others where they might be fuppofed to act under partiality, influence, or prejudice, or to have any local or native bias on their minds. Such was the cafe in the conftituting of juries, both in civil and criminal matters; fuch was the cafe of a judge going the circuit into a country in which he was born or poffeffed property; and fuch in a great variety of other inftances. Such general legal provifions, and prudential cautions, which went to guard against the weakness, infirmities, the paffions, and the vices of mankind at large, to preferve individuals from being expofed to the dangerous trials of needlefs and improper temptation, and even to fence in private character from undue fufpicion, could never be fuppofed to convey reflection or imputation against any man, or body of men. In respect to the declarations of the court lords, relative to the manner of obtaining the petitions, many other lords arofe to give the molt unqualified contradiction in point of fact, as to feveral matters which were stated on the other fide. The Marquis of Rocking- lords undertake to fay, that the ham, in particular, ably vindicat- English affociators were the only ed the Yorkshire meeting. He part of his majefty's fubjects whofe affirmed, that it was neither pro- petitions, in the firft inftance, were pofed nor promoted, by any party, to be branded with the odious epior faction, or by any particular thets of treasonable and rebellidefcription of men. It originated ous? Was every other part of the in the fpontaneous propofitions and British dominions to be liftened communications of the indepen- to? And was the feat of empire dent and honeft part of the peo- alone to be treated with contempt ple of all defcriptions, parties, and foul language?-Were fifty and interefts. The meeting at thoufand armed Irish affociators, York was too numerous and too to have their grievances redreffed, independent, to be biaffed or led, as dutiful, loyal, and obedient by any influence or power what- fubjects? And was the county ever. The freeholders compriz- meetings of the people of Enged, upon that occafion, within the land, unarmed, unaffociated, uncompafs of a fingle room, pof- embodied, without either staves, feffed landed property to the a- or any other weapon, offenfive or mount of eight hundred thousand defenfive, to be charged with bepounds a year; and fince that ing on the brink of treafon and remeeting, no less than nine thou- bellion ?-Had not the lord lieufand gentlemen, clergy, and free- tenant of Ireland, in a public act, holders, figned the petition then in which he reprefented the person agreed upon. As a farther proof of the fovereign, publicly thankof the general fentiments of the ed the Irish affociators, though people of that county, he ftated, armed against law? And what that the petition from the city of judgment can the world pafs on a York had been figned by no lefs man, who as governor, or lord then nine hundred and twenty per- lieutenant of an Irish county, confons; although, at a late warmly veyed the thanks of that parliacontested election for the fame ment, to the affociators, thus illecity, only nine hundred and fe- gally armed, of that county over venty-two perfons were polled on which he prefided, and who now, all fides. Other noblemen vindias an Englishman, fhould fland cated other meetings, which came up, and charge the English counwithin their refpective knowledge, ty meetings with every fpecies of public criminality fhort of actual rebellion? With refpect to the heavy charges laid against the principle of the petitions, and the motives and de- It was obferved, by another nogns of the petitioners, particu- ble duke on the fame fide, that the larly by a noble earl in adminiftra- noble lord in adminiftration, was tion, it was replied, that Ame- ever ready to conftrue every thing rica had refifted, in order to redrefs into rebellion, which carried the her grievances; fo had Ireland; leaft appearance of oppofition to to had Scotland; did the noble the unconftitutional influence of Earl of Hilfborough. the the crown; and had been peculiarly fortunate in predicting thofe very rebellions, or acts of refiftance, which, in respect of America, he had been fo inftrumental in exciting. A noble viscount on the fame fide, juftified the principle of the petitions, and faid, that parliament having, through the enormous influence of the crown, abandoned the care and protection of the people, it was at length become neceffary that the people themfelves fhould look to their own prefervation. And he congratulated his country, on the approaching appearance of being emancipated, through the virtue and firmaefs of the people, from a fyftem of government, and a mal-administration of public affairs, hitherto unprecedented in the annals of England. Some occafional, but very inte refting matter, was introduced in this day's debate. A noble marquis, who had once, for fome fhort time, been at the head of affairs, having, in the courfe of a long and exceedingly pointed fpeech, gone over, befides a variety of new ground, fome part of that which he had opened on the first day of the feffion, directly charged the general amount, of our past and prefent difcontents, diforders, miffortunes, and dangers, to a new, unconftitutional, and defpotic fyf tem, adopted at the commencement of the prefent reign, and which confifted in governing this country, under the forms of law, through the influence of the crown. -He had no fooner, he faid, perceived this fyftem, than he fet his face against it, and had now, for upwards of feventeen years, both during the fhort time he was in office, and out, conftantly endeavoured to defeat its intended effects.-Every thing within and without, he faid, whether in cabinet, parliament, or elfe where, carried about it the most evident and unequivocal marks of this fyltem; the whole economy of executive government, in all its branches, whether profeffional, deliberative, or official, proclaimed it. Its numerous fupporters have appeared publicly in print, and by a variety of means, through books, pamphlets, and news-papers, have openly avowed, and defended it without referve. This was the origin of all our national misfortunes. He was ready, he said, to avow, in his place, that as the measures contained the fullest testimony of the principle which called them into being, fo they bore every internal and external evidence of their dangerous tendency. He faid the principle of defpotifm had fo long appeared, and feemed fo uniformly to pervade all our public acts, that he believed it unnecefiary to point out particular inftances; he fhould therefore content himself with alluding only to fuch parts of the fyftem, as applied more directly to the meafures purfued, respecting America, and the East India company. There it was, he faid, that the plan of extending the influence of the crown, already become enormous and truly alarming, blazed forth in all its odious colours; and there it was that that influence, under the impofitious pretence of afferting the rights of parliament, was employed to veft the patronage or unlimited fovereignty of all Ame rica in the crown. The fame ufe was made of this influence over the Eaft India company; and after the first attempt had brought bank ruptcy on that company, the fecond finally vefted the patronage of it in the crown for ever. The plan, he faid, was deeply laid; the independent part of the people were led into the fnare by the fpecious pretences of defigning and artful men.-The company were defcribed to be wallowing in riches; the directors, and their fervants abroad, were faid to be infinitely venal, unprincipled, corrupt, and oppreffive. It was urged, that in the poffeffion of fuch immenfe revenues and profits, territorial and commercial, that the company ought to be compelled to contribute to the exigencies of the ftate, and to bear part of the burthens, in common with their fellow-fubjects. The idea was fpecious, flattering, carried the appearance of justice, and immediately interested the parties in its favour, on whom the impofition was intended to be paffed. But the whole, he faid, was a minifterial trick, a ftate juggle, to throw duft in the eyes of the people. It was patronage, a further extenfion of court influence, which was at the bottom of all this, however varnished over with fpecious appearances of public reformation, general juftice, and an equitable diftribution of taxes and burthens to be borne by the feveral respective parts of the empire. It was not the fum of 400,000l. a year that was the great object; it was the aggrandizement of the erown that fet this political machine in motion. The fequel proved it, he faid, beyond the poffibility of doubt or uncertainty. The company in a few years became bankrupt; and it was referved for the prefent administration to complete, what they had fo happily begun, and fo steadily purfued. They relinquished the revenue with chearfulness, but they took care to get the patronage in exchange. If any proof, he faid, were wanting to fhew, that neither revenue, nor a defire to alleviate the public burthens, formed the true caufe; it was now fully fufficient to obferve, that no one effectual measure had been taken to promote reformation in India; for it was impoffible for oppreffion, public peculation, or any other evil, faid to have prevailed in India, at the time that government firft broke in upon the affairs of that company, to have risen higher, or to have proved more operative and extenfive, than they have done fince that period. A very ftriking inftance of which, he faid, was then depending in the courts below, in the case of the late Lord Pigot, who had been facrificed to the private cabals of thofe, who, if not encouraged by government, were most certainly protected and countenanced by it. This was the cónfequence of the interference of the crown; and as to the pretence of a revenue, it was, he said, needless to obferve, that no one part of the conduct of the present administration, or of the system they acted under, furnished even the colour of an argument, that they, who had upon all occafions fo fhamefully wafted and mif-fpent the public treasure, entertained a fingle idea of relieving the peo ple, |