JAN. 4, 1830.]

Forage to Officers of the Army.

[H. of R.

This [he said] was neither liberal nor

As the law now stands, the amount of annual expenditure various instances. for the article of allowance for forage of officers was forty- just, &c. &c. Mr. D. said, however, that he admitted that four thousand six hundred and forty dollars, resulting from under the present law there was an evil requiring correcthe fact, that, being required by law, the allowed number tion, and he was willing to exert the power of Congress to of horses was either really or nominally kept by officers. remedy it. The present law [he said] was certainly evaded. The bill proposed, in lieu of this arrangement, to make He would not be considered, by any thing he should say an allowance to officers, which would amount to the annual on this floor or elsewhere, to imply any thing derogatory aggregate of twenty-three thousand nine hundred and to the character of the officers of the army, for which he twenty-eight dollars, thus saving annually to the Govern- had the highest respect in general, and which, as far as ment the sum of twenty thousand seven hundred and he had any knowledge, was highly honorable. But [he twelve dollars. If this arrangement, besides saving this money to the Government, was also better for the officers, (as he believed would be the fact,) Mr. W. said he could see no valid objection to the bill.

said] an irregular practice under the laws was casily fallen into. The fact is, that, in many cases, under the present system, the officer does not actually keep the number of horses that he is entitled to keep; but he says, here are Mr. STORRS objected [he said] to the principle of the horses at a livery stable at my command: these horses I bill. The existing law presumes that the officers of the keep. There is an understanding between him and the army will keep each a certain number of horses, and, if keeper of the livery stable, and the officer certifies that he they do so, allow them forage accordingly. Would not keeps so many horses, &c. Upon this composition, Mr. this bill introduce a new principle into our legislation? D. did not undertake to stand in judgment: he believed Instead of paying forty thousand dollars for certain ex- that every officer who made out his account in this way, penses required or justified by law, this bill proposed the did so under a conscientious conviction that he was doing allowance of twenty odd thousand dollars for nothing: right. But, [he said] considering it an evasion of the spirit because the effect of it would be, undoubtedly, to exempt and meaning of the law, he thought that it ought by some the officers of the army from keeping horses at all, and to means or other to be rectified; and he thought that a peallow them a monthly sum for no consideration whatever. cuniary compensation, in lieu of an allowance for forage, Mr. S. said, he did not call this alteration retrenchment. was advisable, on principles of justice and of policy. When, He should say that, if there was no necessity for the offi- therefore, this bill should be so amended as to allow such cers keeping horses at all, they ought not to be paid for commutation as should be in an equitable rate to what the not keeping them. The bill proposed, in a word, to con- officers now received, he should be willing to see it pass. vert an actual compensation for services rendered into a Until that was done, he thought the bill ought not to be sinecure. This [he said] was not exactly the kind of re- acted upon. Mr. D. said, he was exceedingly averse to trenchment which he desired to see put in practice. It courting business for the committee (on Military Affairs) was vicious in principle to grant the proposed perquisites of which he was a member--he would rather shun it--that by way of compensation for duties which the officers were committee had much business before it; but he thought not bound to perform. If any part of our legislation that this bill required so much remodelling, and the subrequired to be particularly guarded, it was that in which ject to which it relates was so immediately within the money was allowed to be paid for sinecures--for construc- sphere of the duties of that committee, that he felt it to be tive services--for services never performed. He concluded his duty to move to recommit this bill, for revision, to the by saying that he was not for decreasing the compensation Committee on Military Affairs. of officers of the army; but he had no idea of passing a bill professing a retrenchment of public expenditures, but in reality proposing to pay money for services not rendered. Mr. S. then proposed to amend the bill by adding to it the following:

“And provided further, that no allowance shall be made to any officer under this act, for forage, unless it shall appear by his certificate, or otherwise, that he has kept the number of horses for which he claims compensation." The question was taken upon motion of Mr. STORRS, and decided in the negative--ayes 65.

Mr. DRAYTON then rose, not so much to object to the principle of the bill, as to consider some of its details. He was of opinion that the nature of the allowance for forage was not well understood by the House. Besides what is properly designated as the pay of the officers of the army, there were several allowances in addition, such as rations, forage, quarters, &c. But, however denominated, they were intended to constitute a part of the pay or salary of the officer. Thus, under the present system, the allow ance of forage to an officer was, in effect, an item in his pay. Mr. D. took further views of the subject, all tending to show that these allowances to the officer do in fact stand on the same footing as his pay. The question for the decision of the House is, whether or not the officers of the army do or do not at present receive too much pay. If they do, then this bill, in its present shape, might pass. If otherwise, it should not. Mr. D. proceeded to show some defects, as he conceived them to be, in the details of this bill, if it were to pass at all: such, for example, as the reduction of the allowance to officers of different grades for forage to the same amount; the effect of which would be, to take from one class of officers a much larger proportion of their pay than from another class, as he showed by

Mr. DWIGHT said, he should vote for the recommitment of the bill, under the expectation that the committee would report a specific monthly compensation, in full of all allowances, &c. for every officer of the army, that it may be as readily known what pay they receive, as what pay is received by any other officer of the Government.

Mr. WICKLIFFE said, he did not mean to throw any obstacle in the way of any direction which it might please the House to give this bill, but with a single request that the bill be not so overloaded as to be at last unable to travel from this House to the Senate. Nor did he regret that the labor of conducting it through the House was transferred from the select committee to the Committee on Military Affairs, should such be the pleasure of the House. The bill, rightly understood, however, was not subject to the criticisms which the gentleman at the head of the Committee on Military Affairs supposed, as Mr. W. made some observations to prove. Mr. W. said, he was glad to find that the principle of the bill met with the approbation of the chairman of the military committee. But, should that committee undertake to establish a monthly allowance to officers in lieu of all other compensation, Mr. W. said they would find greater difficulty in their way than the gentleman from Massachusetts seemed to suppose. He wished, sincerely, that it could be done in regard to every officer in the employ of the Government, &c.

Mr. SEMMES, of Maryland, wished to amend the motion for commitment, so as to instruct the military committee to report a provision that no allowance should be made to any officer for forage, except for horses actually kept for service. We had heard much of constructive travelling, to which he had always been opposed: he was equally opposed to constructive horses. There had been much abuse [he said] in reference to this matter. Horses

H. of R.]

Distribution of Public Lands.

(JAN. 5, 1830.

had been kept at farm work, &c. and certified to be kept tions, he was not prepared to give his assent to the profor the use of officers. In saying this, he intended no position, in any form. reflection on the motives of officers, for no man more But [said Mr. C.] the amendment is much more objec respected the high character of the officers of our army [tionable. It assumes the fact, as explained by its friends, than he did; but the law required to be made more clear that many and large donations have been made to the and specific. Western States, and calls on us to perform the ungraMr. TAYLOR, of New York, thought it would be inex-cious and unenviable task of now raising an account, a pedient, as this bill was to be referred generally to the charge against them for their value. Sir, [said Mr. C.] I Committee on Military Affairs, to tie up their hands. If will leave to other gentlemen to determine, if the fact be that committee should not report a provision, such as to meet the gentleman's views, it would be competent for him, when the subject should be again before the House, to move an amendment.

The recommitment of the bill to the military commit-conditions. As to the sixteenth sections of every towntee was agreed to.

TUESDAY JANUARY 5, 1830.

as supposed, how far it is consistent with the generous spirit in which gifts are presumed to be made, to demand or claim an equivalent in this manner. But [he said] the assumption of facts on which the amendment was prediMr. DRAYTON suggested that what the gentleman cated, he by no means admitted. On the contrary, he from Maryland proposed to instruct the committee to re-felt authorized to controvert them. He believed that it port, was exactly what is now required by the law. would be found, on examination of the various grants alMr. SEMMES, on this suggestion, withdrew his pro-luded to, that every one of them had been upon some conposed amendment; and sideration, supposed to be adequate, and upon terms and ship reserved for the support of schools, they were part of the original consideration of purchase offered by the Government, in "an ordinance for ascertaining the mode of disposing of lands in the Western Territory," passed as long ago as the 20th May, 1785. The like reservation, had, he believed, been made in every subsequent law which had been passed for the disposal of the public domain, from that time down to the present. It was part of the consideration and inducement held out to the adven turous pioneers, that, if they would buy thirty-five sections of a township, they should have the remaining one Mr. CLAY, of Alabama, said, that, but for the amend-to assist in the education of their offspring. They cannot ment proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina, be said to be donations, then, but are part of the original [Mr. MARTIN] he should have claimed no share of contract between the Government and the purchasers. the indulgence of the House on this occasion. That amendment [he said] involved the rights and interests of the new States, one of which he had the honor to represent, in part, in no small degree-at least, according to the exposition of its friends--consequently, he felt it a duty incumbent on him to repel some of the remarks which had been made upon the subject.

DISTRIBUTION OF PUBLIC LANDS. The House resumed the consideration of the resolution moved by Mr. HUNT on the 17th ultimo, concerning a distribution of the public lands among the several States. The question recurred on the motion made by Mr. MARTIN, on the same day, to amend the same.

Mr. C. said, there had been other grants for different purposes; some for roads, some for canals, and some for seminaries of learning. It would be found, however, that all these grants were for the advancement of some great improvement, of a character national rather than local, or for some advantage, or benefit, which amounted to an equivalent. Grants had been made to Ohio, to Indiana, to Mr. C. said, he did not wish to be understood as being Illinois, and more recently to Alabama. In all instances, ready to assent to the general proposition embraced in the Government still retained lands, the value of which the resolution, as originally offered by the gentleman from would be greatly enhanced by the improvement; and in Vermont, [Mr. HUNT.] He would not undertake, at this many, perhaps half the cases, every alternate section time, to say what might be his vote upon that proposition through which the road or canal was to run, was reserved when the proper time for giving it might arrive, but he from grant or sale, thereby increasing the value twocertainly now considered it objectionable. It seemed to fold. He believed in every case of a grant for a road or him that the measure contemplated was entirely prema- canal, one condition was an exemption of the property ture. Though Congress might now deliberate and act of the United States and persons in their employment from upon the question, by passing such a law as was proposed, toll; and another pretty general feature in them was a rigid of what avail would it be? It was agreed on all hands accountability on the part of the State receiving for the ap that it could now have no effect, nor would it have any plication of proceeds or funds arising to the particular onfor several years to come. In the mean time, for several ject contemplated. But independent of this, every road and successive sessions, the measure might be discussed, and every canal, for which an appropriation had been made, imchanged and modified again and again, or even repealed, proved facilities of commercial intercourse, as well as of debefore it went into operation; which, it was agreed, could fending the country in time of war. One of those grants connot happen before the extinguishment of the public debt. templated the construction of a road from the Atlantic coast Mr. C. said, he believed it was an acknowledged axiom in to the Ohio river; others contemplated canals, or roads political economy, that too much or unnecessary legislation establishing communications between the Northern lakes was always improper; that it was always a sufficient ob- and some of the principal rivers of the Western States; and jection to any measure which might be proposed, when still another class were made for the removal of obstruc its inutility could be demonstrated. If it be allowable to tions to the navigation of our rivers, so as to admit of unadopt the measure now proposed, we might, with equal interrupted navigation at all seasons far into the interior. propriety, be continually legislating in advance, and upon Mr. C. asked, could it be pretended that any of these contingencies. Upon the same principle, we might begin to grants were for the exclusive benefit of Ohio, Indiana, Illilegislate upon the subject of apportionment in this House, nois, or Alabama? He thought it could not with propri four or five years before the proper period arrived; though ety; but contended, on the contrary, that the State to which any act which could be passed upon the subject would, any of those grants were made, was constituted a sort of for four or five successive sessions, be open to considera- trustee or agent, to superintend the accomplishment of im tion, alteration, or repeal. He would ask whether this provements, in which her sister States were often equally, would not be an indiscreet consumption of the public and sometimes more deeply, interested than herself. The time, and an unwarrantable expenditure of the public experience of the last war has shown the want and the value money. He thought it would, and, under such impres-of such facilities of intercourse between remote parts

JAN. 6, 7, 1830.]

Distribution of Public Lands.

[H. of R.

of the country; and had, probably, induced the making of if they should think proper to do so, the merits of the some of these appropriations. whole subject would then be open to the discussion and Mr. C. said that the grants which had been made for action of this House. But it had taken a course different seminaries of learning, so far as he had examined them, from what he anticipated, and become the occasion of a I had either been made upon some one of the considera-protracted debate, and an excitement unpleasant no doubt tions which he had mentioned, (for example, the enhance- to many gentlemen on this floor. The honorable member Iment of the value of the remaining public lands,) or in from Pennsylvania, [Mr. BUCHANAN] wishing to avoid consideration of concessions made by the States upon their the difficulties in which the House was placed, proposed admission into the Union. He spoke more particularly in that the original resolution should be withdrawn, and a reference to the grant made to Alabama for the establish-substitute offered in its place. Mr. H. said that he was ment and support of a seminary of learning. But what willing to adopt any plan or take any course that might was required of that State in turn? Nothing less than the advance the accomplishment of the object expressed in surrender of some of the most important rights of sove- the resolution, but to do nothing that may retard or defeat : reignty, common to the older States; whilst we were told, it, and that he was not disposed at present to withdraw in the act passed for our admission, and in the resolution his resolution, because the House had on two occasions exdeclaring it, that we were admitted, or to be admitted, pressed a wish to retain it, upon the vote of consideration “ upon an equal footing with the original States in all re-being taken. If [said he] I surrender the resolution now :spects whatsoever." Yes, sir, we were compelled to dis- before the House for a substitute that may be offered, claim all right to the primary disposal of unappropriated soil within our chartered limits, and to abandon all right to tax the lands of the United States, or lands sold by the United States, till five years after such sale. He said he knew nothing pertaining to sovereignty of more importance than the power of taxation; without it, he presumed, no Government could long exist. Again, when this grant was made to Alabama, the Government of the United States ⚫ still owned a large quantity of land within her limits, the value of which was augmented.

may not the gentleman from South Carolina, [Mr. MARTIN] or some other member, propose again the same amendment that now embarrasses this House?

The amendment, which is now the question before the House, merely directs the committee to ascertain the value and quantity of the public land that has already been given to particular States and institutions. It is manifest, sir, that the value cannot be ascertained without much time and expense, or even an actual appraisement; but, for all the purposes of legislation, we may assume the ordinary Mr. C. said that one gentleman who had addressed the price of the public lands to be the fair and average value. House, (he did not then recollect from what State,) had The quantity of land given to particular States and inurged the claim of the old States to this distribution of the stitutions has already been obtained; it is appended to a public land, on the ground that they had achieved the inde-report made to the House during the last session, and is pendence of the country. The argument had struck Mr.open to the inspection of every one. It would therefore C. with some surprise. The gentleman could not certainly seem that there was no necessity for this inquiry; neither mean that the independence of our country had been would there appear to be any serious objection to it so far achieved by those who now reside in the old States and by as it relates to the information sought for; but there was an their ancestors; and could not the people of the new objection to the object which the gentleman intended to States claim the same ancestry? Had not they, and indeed make of that information. The honorable mover [Mr. some of those who fought the battles of the revolution, MARTIN] avows that it is his intention to call the States to emigrated from the old States? They had, [he said] and an account, which have received lands; and to make dehad shown themselves, in the late war, worthy of such an- ductions from them to the extent of their donations, becestry; they had evinced as much courage, as much en-fore they can be placed upon an equality with the other terprise, and as much patriotism, as the people of any States in the contemplated distribution. other section of the Union. Mr. C. said, he invited the It is well known that donations of the public lands attention of every gentleman to an examination of the have been chiefly made to the new Southern and Western terms of these grants; and repeated, that he had full con- States. To these States, [said Mr. H.] I am not disposed fidence that each one of them would be found to be grants, to be rigid. I would be just, and, so far as consistent with upon some adequate consideration, or for the accomplish my duty here, I would be liberal-and, sir, the numerous ment of some national work. Under these impressions, grants that have been made to these States afford evidence he hoped that the amendment under consideration would that the Union at large is disposed to be liberal. be promptly rejected.

When Mr. CLAY concluded, Mr. HUNT obtained the floor, but had not proceeded far, when the hour allotted for the consideration of resolutions having elapsed, the remainder of his remarks was deferred to another day.

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 6, 1830.

The grants heretofore made have been for good and sufficient reasons, for State and national objects; and it is not for us to question them. They have vested rights in these States and their institutions, which we ought not, by any acts of our legislation, to take away or impair.

The plan, as proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina, [Mr. MARTIN] of making deductions from some

The principal part of this day was spent in disposing of States, and giving to others, and thus, in his own language, motions for inquiry.

THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 1830.

DISTRIBUTION OF THE PUBLIC LANDS. The House resumed the consideration of the resolution, moved by Mr. HUNT on the 17th ultimo, concerning a distribution of the public lands among the several States. The question recurred on the motion made by Mr. MARTIN, on the same day, to amend the same.

to strike the balance sheet, cannot be done with any degree of justice that can give satisfaction. When grants have been for the construction of roads, canals, the improvement of navigable rivers, or for the purposes of edu cation, the benefits resulting from them are not confined exclusively to the States that have received the donations for those purposes, but are enjoyed in part by the adjoining States. It is unnecessary to enumerate particular cases for illustration. I will, however, refer to the case of the donation made by Congress, in 1828, to the State Mr. HUNT resumed the remarks which he commenced of Alabama, of four hundred thousand acres of land for on Tuesday, when the subject was last under considera- improving the navigation of the Tennessee river, by the tion. He said, as the original resolution contained no spe- Muscle shoals, situate on the northern extremity of that cific instructions, he did suppose it would pass in silence State. This river takes its origin in the State of Virginia, to the committee, and that when they might report a bill, thence it passes through the eastern and southern part of

H. of R.]

Distribution of Public Lands.

[JAN. 7, 1830.

Tennessee, into the northern section of Alabama, where the terms of the cession, but in conformity to them. It the improvement is contemplated; it then turns and runs will not be proper on this occasion to enter into a history through the whole width of Tennessee, and into the State of that cession. It will however be recollected that, when of Kentucky, where it empties its waters into the Ohio we were colonies, some few of the States had claims to extenriver. It is palpably manifest that the principal advanta-sive tracts of land in the Western country. During the ges to result from this improvement will not be confined war of the revolution these lands, though not of great value, to the inhabitants of Alabama. And shall the value of the were susceptible of immense future enhancement; they four hundred thousand acres be deducted from that State, were then but a mere wilderness, and of course could afford when the adjoining States will derive more benefits from no aid in the prosecution of the war. They rather served as the improvement than the State of Alabama itself? The haunts and safe retreats for savages, who made war upon public domain, and the grants that have been made, are of our border settlers. It was foreseen that if independence such a nature, and embrace such a variety of interests, should be secured, the States having those claims would that justice among the States is not to be done mathema- add immensely to their territories, while others, who had tically. We cannot, sir, like clerks in a counting-house, no such claims, but contributed equally to the prosecution deduct one-half of one per cent. from one partner for some of the war, would remain confined within their former li little advance, and give it to another; and thus strike the mits. This great disparity of interests in the expected balance sheet. If we undertake to do justice in this man- results of independence was the cause of no small jea ner according to the rules of arithmetic, we shall do in-lousies among the several States. To appease these jeajustice in every other sense of the word. lousies and establish harmony, the Continental Congress,

Mr. H. observed that his object in offering the resolu- at an early period, earnestly recommended to the States tion was to prevent the further continuance of the pre-claiming those lands in the Western country, to be liberal sent course of partial and unequal legislation of special in making grants of the same to the United States for grants to particular States and institutions, and to intro- the benefit of all. The States of Massachusetts and New duce a general system for the equal distribution of the York relinquished their title. The State of Connecticut, avails of the public lands among all sections of the Union. at a later period, did the same, retaining, however, that The General Government has already given, by a great tract of land known as the Connecticut Reserve. In 1784 number of particular acts, two millions and a half of acres the State of Virginia having a title, as she contended, to to particular States and institutions, in addition to the re- the entire territory northwest of the Ohio, after making a servations in all the new States of one mile square in each reservation in favor of her troops, and some French and township for the support of schools; and petitions are now Canadian settlers, transferred the whole of that extensive before Congress for more than twice that amount. Some country to the United States; and, in the terms of the ces of the applications may succeed; others, constituting, no sion, expressly declared that the lands so ceded shall doubt, the greater part, will be rejected; and it is natural be considered a common fund for the use and benefit of that those who are unsuccessful should feel jealous, dissatisfied and discontented, and be impressed with the belief that justice has not been done. It is difficult for Congress, and always invidious, to make selections out of the numerous applications, and must ever be impossible to make an equal distribution and give general satisfaction. Mr. H. remarked that the gentleman who opposed the resolution deprecated the scrambling for the public lands; so did he; and wished to avoid it, and never to see this House made the arena where the battles of interested applicants for the public lands were to be fought. His object was to prevent these contests, and to substitute a general law, that by its even operation should give to every part of the country its just proportion.

such of the United States as have become or shall become members of the confederation, or federal alliance of the said States, Virginia inclusive, according to their usual respective proportions in the general charge and expendi ture, and shall be faithfully and bona fide disposed of for that purpose, and for no other use or purpose, whatsoever." The same language is employed in all the cessions made by individual States to the United States.

The land thus ceded is, in the first place, expressly made a common fund--not for the use and benefit of any particular State or section of country, but for all. The use of this common fund is declared not only for such of the States as were then members of the confederacy, but such as might thereafter become members. It was The public domain he considered to be public proper- not limited to their use jointly, in their federal character, ty, in common to us all. What [said he] is the foundation but, in the language of the cession, it was given to them of our title-whence its origin? The treaty concluded respectively, in their separate and independent communiwith Great Britain in 1783 acknowledged the right and ties. The rule of distribution is there declared and fixsovereignty of the United States over a vast extent of ter-ed; which is, according to the proportion of each State in ritory. This was the result of the war of our indepen- the general charge and expenditure. The basis of this dence; a war undertaken in self-defence, and carried to a charge and expenditure was the population capable of successful termination by the united efforts of the whole rendering assistance to the country. It was a just and an people. The subsequent acquisitions of Louisiana, of the equitable one--intended for use, and capable of being Floridas, the purchases from the Indian tribes, and the con- put into practice. The principle of distribution is as ap tract with Georgia, were all obtained by money drawn plicable at this time as when it was established; and it from the common treasury. As these lands have been ac- will apply with the same certainty hereafter, when other quired by the common expenditure of treasure and of States may be added to the Union. It is, that each State blood, natural justice would dictate that the benefits to shall receive from the common fund in proportion to its flow from them should be equal, and that they ought not taxes, expense, and charge, in supporting the General to be appropriated to the aggrandisement of a few, while Government. The precise and exact amount of taxation others, equally entitled, are excluded. and expense, it is true, cannot be ascertained, nor is it to The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. WILDE] referred to be expected. It is sufficient that some general rule of the cession of the territory northwest of the Ohio, made distribution among the several States must be adopted. by the State of Virginia, and advanced an opinion that the And perhaps there is no better criterion to direct the terms expressed in that grant present an obstacle to the adoption of a rule of apportionment, than the representa distribution of the public lands, as indicated by the reso- tion of this House, or, rather, what would be more exact, lution. I am induced, sir, to draw a conclusion entirely that population, the federal numbers, which is the basis the reverse, and to believe that the terms of that cession of our representation. But, sir, it is not necessary at this afford a direction to guide us in the distribution of these time to determine upon any particular rule of distribulands, and that the resolution is not only not repugnant to tion, as the subject before the House is one of mere in

JAN. 7, 1830.]

Distribution of Public Lands.

[H. of R

quiry, and not of enactment. The principle of appor- stoop to the language of complaint, but at a proper time tionment is well established in the cession made by Virgi- she will present herself to the justice of this House, and nia, and it will be competent for Congress, at the proper of the nation, and in mere justice will ask their co-operatime, to make the application. tion in measures which may be necessary to enable her Mr. H. concluded by observing that, when appropria-people to receive and retain in their own hands the avails tions of the public lands were made to a few of the States and the profits of their own labor and industry-measures, exclusively, and equal shares were not conceded to the in short, which will unchain her navigation, and place her others, justice was not only withheld, but the express in free and fair communication with the commercial world. terms contained in the cessions made by Virginia, and the This, however, is a consideration not to be gone into at other States, were violated. this time. I merely mention it now as that which will go

Mr. POTTER said, that, when he recollected the sub-vern my vote in this and all similar questions. Our situaject of the resolution before the House, that it proposed tion in North Carolina requires all the resources we can nothing definite-nothing conclusive-it appeared to him command; and I feel it to be one of the most sacred duties that this debate was most unnecessarily protracted. Gen. I owe to my constituents, to take back from the federal tlemen took for granted the matter which it is the object treasury every dollar I can put my hand upon of the sum of the resolution to ascertain, and have founded their ar- contributed by us, over and above our fair proportion in guments upon what they apprehend might be the report the general charge and expenditure, to be expended howon the resolution, if agreed to. They certainly seemed ever, at our own option, and under our own direction. I to be the impression of gentlemen who had spoker in op- regret to have heard the gentleman from Vermont, [Mr. position to the amendment; for those from that part of HUNT] who introduced this resolution, decline yesterday the United States where the amendment pointed, discuss-receiving the proposition which had been suggested, but ed it with as much zeal as if the final proposition to dis- not actually proposed to the House, by the gentleman from tribute the proceeds of the sale of the public lands Pennsylvania, [Mr. BUCHANAN.] That proposition even amongst the Several States, for the purposes contemplated, avoids the semblance of a committal on the part of the had been under consideration, and to exact a rigid ac- House, either as to the constitutionality of the power procount of the new States of the proportion they have re-posed to be exercised, or the time when it will be expeceived. What did the amendment propose? It simply dient to put it in operation; and when the amendment proposes to instruct the committee to lay before the before us is disposed of, I will myself, if no one else will, House a statement of the quantity and value of the public present that proposition as a substitute for the present relands which have been given to any State, or the public solution. It is desirable on another account. It proposes or private institutions thereof. It implies [said Mr. P.] to substitute a select committee for this reference, instead a pledge as to the use which the House will make of this of the Committee on the Public Lands. This is obviously information when obtained. For my own part, [said Mr. proper; and, from what I have seen of the mass of busiP.] I have no disposition to demand a strict reckoning ness before that committee, I am sure they will be obliged on this score from the people of the new States. No to be relieved from the task of this investigation. In givone sympathises more than I do with the difficulties they ing the pledge to offer a substitute to the resolution before have had to encounter, or admires more the courage with us, I have no disposition to take the management of this which they have sustained them. But, before I proceed matter upon myself. I shall wait, therefore, when the to act in prospect upon this subject, I wish to see what pending amendment is disposed of, to see if some other has been done with it heretofore. It is with a bad grace gentleman will not introduce it.

that gentlemen seek to suppress this information. They Mr. LEWIS said, that, as a member from a new State, talk to us about the valuable public considerations for he felt that no apology was due in claiming for a few minwhich the donations in question have been made. Be it utes the attention of the House. The subject was of one

So.

It will be time enough to bring up those arguments of great interest to the members generally--to the new when we have a proposition before us to demand an ac-States it was a matter of incalculable interest. It is no less count of them. All that we want now is such information than a proposition to distribute these lands among the difas will enable us to determine, correctly, whether such an ferent portions of the Union. In fact, [he said] the proaccount shall be demanded. Mr. P. said, I would rather cess was actually going on, and the Representatives of these have the facts than the statements of any gentleman, States cannot be expected to sit the silent spectators of a whatever might be my own confidence in their integrity. scene in which their constituents have so great an interest. I will never act upon faith when facts can be produced, The mover has said that this is a mere question of inin relation to any matter whatever, and shall therefore quiry; and infers that it should not meet with opposition, vote for the amendment. There is surely a most fastidi- until it is embodied in a report from the Committee of the ous sensibility here upon this subject. We have even House. Sir, it is a question of inquiry, and one of a chaheard the title of the Union to these lands drawn into con-racter so decisive of the destiny of the new States, that it troversy, and a comparison instituted between the milita- should be met at the threshold. He thought that it ry merits of the old and new States. This, sir, is idle. I would be well to discuss most propositions on a motion of apprehend there is no man here, who will dare to deny reference. The question is then fairly presented, divestthe right of the United States to its own property. That ed of all extraneous matter, and the unbiassed sense of is a proposition I would no more consent to discuss, than the House is taken alone upon the merits of the inquiry. the plainest axiom in Euclid. Having been alluded to, Mr. L. said, he should vote for the amendment of the however, it was placed on the true ground by the gen- gentleman from South Carolina, but from views very dif tleman from New York, [Mr. SPENCER] who favored us ferent from those of the honorable mover. He thought with his remarks on Thursday last, so much to the satis it a requisition of sheer justice, that, before any distribufaction of every one who heard him. We have heard tion of the funds of this Government should take place, it something said of the share which the individual States should be known what amount the several States have have contributed of this common stock. The State previously received for purposes of education and interwhich I have in part the honor to represent, gave up to nal improvement. It was but fair play, and should prethe Union a territory, which, whether you look to the cede every other inquiry. So far from avoiding such an quality or the extent of it, forms one of the most valuable inquiry, he was disposed to extend it, not only to the doportions of the public domain. Yet North Carolina, one nations of land actually received, but to donations of moof the oldest and most liberal members of the confedera-neys for splendid roads, canals, breakwaters, &c. in difcy, has received but a step-child's portion. She will not ferent sections of the country.