been raised since the law came into opera-
tion. Indeed, in illustration of the fact,
he stated what he himself paid upon his
own farm in 1834, and what he paid in
1837; that is to say, he gave them a table
containing the weekly payments for every
week, in those years, to his labourers, and
the totals showed an increase in the
gross
amount in the year 1837. So far Mr.
Overman made out the case very
well;
but in his previous examination he had
stated not only that wages had been raised,
but that many more men had been em-
ployed on the land; and here Mr. Over-
man had failed to establish his case, but
had completely succeeded in establishing
the point which he (Mr. Fielden) aimed to
prove, namely a reduction in wages. Mr.
Overman in 1834 and 1835 employed
twenty meu and thirteen boys, and the
gross amount which he states he paid to
them in the year is 7751. 6s. 1d. He states,
that in 1837 and 1838 his gross payment
in wages was 8701. 8s., which was doubt
less a considerable increase in the money
spent in wages; but he employed in the
latter year eleven boys and twenty-six
men, which, as any one would find on
calculating it, proved a reduction of 11d.
per week in money wages. As Mr. Over-
man and his table were cited in the
report
as the proof of an advance in wages, he
had proposed an amendment to that part
of the report, which he would read to the
House. It was as follows:-

"That so far from the real interests of all
classes having been consulted by the adminis-
tration of the Poor-law Amendment Act, as
expressed in page twenty-five of their report,
the interests of the poor have suffered by the
withdrawal of relief and reductions of wages,
as appears by the evidence (15,305, 15,318,
15,361 Ceeley, and 16,472 and 16,474 Rauron,
and 14,345 and 14,349, 14,353, 14,354,
14,370, 14,479, and 14,480 Overman). The
statement of weekly wages paid for farm la
bourers during four years, by Mr. T. W.
Overman, accompanied by the list of labourers
in his employment from July 1834, to July
1835, and from July 1837 to July 1838, in the
former of which years he had twenty men and
thirteen boys, and in the latter twenty-six men
and eleven boys, shows the following result:
In this calculation five shillings per week only
are allowed for the boys, in both years, al-
though Mr. Overman in his evidence, 14,378,
says boys' wages had been advanced.

1384 AND 1835.

Amount paid as per Mr. Over
man's statement,

wages

606 13 4

775.13 4

775 64

143 0 0

726 140

869 140

870 80

in money

A reduction of labourers' from 11s. 8d. per week in 1834-5, to 10s.% per week in 1837-8, or 8 per cent., is thes shown by Mr. Overman's statement; and 11s. 8d. would buy the labourer 1291 pints of wheat at the average price of wheat pet quarter (40s. 2d.) during the year 1834; whereas 10s. 9d. would purchase him only 99 during the year 1837, being a decline in his pints of wheat at the average price (55s. 9d.) command over wheat of 25 per cent., and taking wheat at the average price of the week ending 5th July last, his command over wheat then, as compared with 1834, is reduced 37 per cent.; and this has been going on under the operation of the new Poor-law, notwith that there is an increased demand for labout standing Mr. Overman stated in his evidence (14,336 and 14,337), no scarcity of work 14,132 and 14,467), that wages have been advanced, and the men do more work (14,183, 14,185, and 14,209), and that farming has not been so prosperous for many years as in 1837 (14,507)."

He had moved this resolution when complaining in the committee of the whole report, and he asked whether he had not a right to complain of such a delusive statement being sent forth to the country Before he had become a Member of this as that which he had just pointed out? committee, he had imagined that the handloom weavers, and some others in the North, were the most miserable of the English labouring people; but he had heard enough confessed in the committee South were not now as badly off as the to show him, that if the people of the hand-loom weavers, it would take but a short time to bring them to the condition of those miserable people. pause, in order to ask the House whether tinue this wicked and obnoxious law, if it was not both cruel and impolitic to con

He would

there was any chance that its results would to the committee to refute them; and, be such as he had spoken of? He could according to Mr. Pearce, these labourers point out good, honest, and industrious were in the receipt of much more money labourers, men whose characters were not than Mr. Turner had made out in his disputed, who with their families, were tables; but how was it? Why, Mr. Pearce living now upon three pence per head per finds that the earnings of the families of a day. Mr. Ceely, a surgeon from Aylesbury the labourers, that is, the earnings of the (whose evidence by-the-bye, was well wives and children of the labourers in worthy of being read) stated, that he was Westoning, at straw-platting, makes an in considerable practice, that he was well important difference in the total earning acquainted with Aylesbury and the la- of the family during the year. Mr. Pearce bouring people in its vicinity, and he gave found little to dispute as to the wages of it as his opinion that, sickly and distressed the labouring men. All the difference as they were before, their lot had become that there was between his tables and Mr. considerably worse since the new law came Turner's, consisted in this, that Turner into operation. That he had inquired at had stated the earnings of the families at what he deemed the best sources of in- too little, according to Mr. Pearce's acformation, the tradespeople, those who count. He (Mr. Fielden) was prepared to sold to the labourers the food on which dispute the truth of Mr. Pearce's statethey lived, and all had told him that they ment. He had the names of the witnesses sold now less provisions to this class of ready, and amongst them the names of persons than they did before the new law. persons who could have spoken from exIf this was fact, he would ask, could perience and with authority upon the subanything be more convincing? If the ject; but these witnesses he could not get baker, the grocer, and the cheesemonger before the committee. In the absence of were now selling less food to the labouring them, however, the House might find, by man than they did before the new law, turning to Mr. Pearce's evidence, that was not the conclusion forced upon them when it was the object of the different that the new law had deprived the labour- boards of guardians in Bedfordshire to ing man of the means he had before it send families into the north of England to passed? In the reports of the committee it the factories, then the earnings of the would be found that Weale, the assistant- wives and children were set down in Mr. commissioner, had made a statement of the Muggridge's returns, as amounting to wages of agricultural labourers in So- little or nothing. The earnings of a momersetshire, Gloucestershire, and Worces- ther and all her children, were stated in tershire, and the average rate of wages one instance at 3s. 6d. only per week; afforded 1s. 5d. per head per week for the whereas Mr. Pearce stated, that a young labourer and his family. Mr. Rawson, woman in Bedfordshire of from thirteen a manufacturer at Leicester, stated on his to nineteen years of age could earn from own experience, that wages had been re- 5s. to 7s. per week at straw-platting. As duced one-third since the new law came to the men taking their earnings as stated into operation, and he apprehended a by Mr. Pearce himself, the House would continued reduction. He had sent two find that they were getting no more than men down into the neighbourhood of would afford 1s. 10d. per week per head Ampthill to make inquiries in that neigh- for themselves and families. He (Mr. bourhood, and they took a survey of the Fielden) thought he had stated enough parish of Westoning in particular; they already, citing even the authority of comobtained the name, number in family, and missioners and guardians, to prove to the earnings of every labouring man within House, that it was necessary to keep a the parish for the years 1834 and 1837, watchful eye on the condition of the agriand the result, which he would state as cultural labourers. He had received letters short as possible, was a reduction of six- from all parts of the country, from so far teen per cent. in their means of living. west as Barnstaple, and so far east as The tables establishing these matters had Norwich, from Carlisle, and from many been put in by Mr. Turner, one of the places in the interior of the country, persons whom he had sent to make the addressed to him by magistrates, clerinquiries. They had been attacked in the gymen, guardians of boards, and by committee, and Mr. Pearce, chairman of tradesmen, all complaining of the operathe Woburn board, had been brought up tion of this law, and all stating it to have

the relief of the poor was now administered under local acts, would watch this subject well. He hoped, that the representatives would be reminded of their duties, and that the country would not be thrown into additional confusion by additional powers being given to those persons who were obliged by their application for a fresh act to confess their incompetency. He (Mr. Fielden) not only hoped that the commissioners would have no further powers given to them, but he hoped that the representatives of the people would come up to Parliament in the next Session, prepared to negative any proposition that might be made to Parlia ment for continuing the powers they at present had.

Lord Granville Somerset did not wish to interrupt the hon. Gentleman in stating his own views upon the subject; but when he entered into circumstances of which the committee alone was cognizant, and of which the House as yet knew nothing, he put it to the Speaker, and to the House, whether the hon. Gentleman was treating either the committee or the subject quite fairly.

the effect which he had anticipated with
dread, and which he had often stated to
the House. It was only yesterday that
he had received a communication out of
Devonshire, in which, amongst other
things, great complaint was made of the
enormous size of the unions, causing
what was equal to a denial of relief to all
but those who were able-bodied enough
to walk fifteen or twenty miles to wait
upon the board of guardians; and this
brought him to page sixteen of the report
before the House. A compliment was
there paid to the commissioners for the
"skilful and judicious arrangements which
they have made, and for the great discri-
mination which they had shown in adapt-
ing their operations to local peculiarities."
But this compliment was not in unison
with an opinion given in p. 14, where
the report said, "Your committee are of
opinion, that it does appear that the size
of the medical districts, in many instances,
is inconveniently large," while in the 24th
page of the report, the House would find
a specific recommendation appended to it,
to give the Commissioners powers to recon-
struct their own unions. This he appre-
hended would require a statute; so that
these able and judicious men had formed
a set of unions so inconvenient even to
themselves, that they were already apply-
ing to Parliament, through this committee,
for powers to undo their own work. Why,
it appeared to him, that these persons had
shown a want of ability in the only part of
their duties that required wisdom. To
alter the old-established divisions of the
country, and form a set of new ones that
should be more convenient to the people,
was, doubtless, a matter that required
judgment and discrimination; but, these
persons had shown that it was not possessed
by them in this particular at any rate, and
therefore, he protested strongly against
this part of the report, which paid them a
compliment in one page, on the very sub- Mr. P. Scrope, from the more in-
ject on which, in another page, it con- mediate vicinity of his seat to that of the
demned them. At the same time, that hon. Member had enjoyed the singular ad-
the report recommended that the commis- vantage of hearing much that had fallen
sioners should have the means given to from him, and he begged to assure the
them of reconstructing the unions that House that the hon. Member had gone
they had already formed, it also recom-
through the greater part of the
report,
mended, that they should have power had raised an objection to every page of
given to them to dissolve all the Gilbert it.
unions, and to nullify all provisions of
local acts all over the country relating to
the relief of the poor. He hoped that
the Gilbert unions, and those places where

The Speaker had not had the good fortune to collect much of what had fallen from the hon. Member, but the greater part of that which he had heard certainly ap peared to him to relate to matters of which the committee was exclusively in posses sion. The report of the committee was now placed upon the Table. If the hon. Member dissented from any part of it, it would be competent to him to state his objections at length on some future day, after the report had been printed and placed in the hands of the House; but he put it to the hon. Member whether, at the present moment, it was either fair or reasonable to enter into a long discussion on report of the contents of which the House was not yet in possession.

a

and

Amongst other things the hon. Member had complained of the want of due at tention, on the part of the committee, to the evidence adduced before them. Now, of all the members of the committee, the

hon. Member for Oldham was certainly | than even what the tin-plate workers wished
the very last who had a right to complain and the only difference between him and
upon that head, because, throughout the the noble Lord was whether a greater re-
whole of the inquiry, the committee had duction of three shillings should take place;
paid the most watchful and the most and he thought that his proposal was just
anxious attention to every particle of evi- as an experiment; but at the same time,
dence which the hon. Member had it in if in practice it should be found to throw a
his power to bring forward. He would monopoly into the hands of the English
not attempt to follow the hon. Member miners, he would, as he had told the manu-
through the voluminous statement into facturers, feel himself bound to come
which he had entered. He would leave again before Parliament to reconsider the
the report to answer for itself, perfectly subject, and to fix a lower rate of duty,
satisfied that as a majority of the com-giving, however, all due protection to
mittee had concurred in it, so also would British interests.
the majority of the public feel that they
were perfectly justified in adopting it.
Report laid on the Table.

TIN DUTIES.] On the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the House went into Committee on the Tin Duties bill. Lord Granville Somerset, pursuant to notice, moved, that the import duty on foreign tin be reduced to 12s. per cwt. Ile conceived that the existing duty of 50s. per cwt. acted as a complete prohibition upon the importation of foreign tin and it was to remove that prohibition that he was induced to come forward with the present motion. He did not wish the counties of Cornwall and Devon to possess hereafter a complete monopoly of tin; but at the same time he was anxious not to break down their present monopoly so rudely as to introduce at once a flood of foreign tin. It appeared to him, however, that the public had a clear claim to the advantage of reduction in the existing price of tin. He was willing to give the Cornish miner a fair field for exertion he would release him from the local burdens which pressed upon him; but at the same time he thought that something was owing to the public, and he therefore moved for the reduction of the import duty on foreign tin to 12s. per cwt.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer concurred with the noble Lord in thinking that if the duty on foreign tin were such as to give to the Cornish miners a monopoly, they would in fact be putting into the pockets of the miners the amount of the reduction of the duty. Now Ministers proposed to reduce the duty to 15s., which they thought would accomplish their object in preventing this; and the chairman of the manufacturers' association (Mr. Smith) had concurred in fixing this amount; but the noble Lord was anxious to obtain more

Mr. Hawes thought, that although the miners and the manufacturers might agree in fixing the amount, yet the interests of the public, the consumers ought to be taken care of also; and from the representations made to him, he thought that the duty of 15s. would, in fact, amount to a prohibition of the foreign tin, and that it would be continuing the protection to the Cornish miner, whilst the ground on which that protection existed, was swept away. If, therefore, the noble Lord went to a division he would certainly vote with him.

Sir C. Lemon said, that he had figures before him to prove, that a duty of 15s. per cwt. would leave a fair chance of having an importation of foreign tin. The duty on these plates in France was cent. per cent., and in Russia it was 200 per cent.; it would be well for the noble Lord to turn his attention to those duties, before he further pressed for the present reduction.

Mr. Poulett Thomson said, he had been most anxious for a long time to procure a reduction of duty on tin; but he had been hitherto successfully opposed, because of the local burdens, and the fear of the operation which such a reduction might have upon the mines. But when the time arrived for a reduction of the duty, coupled with a reduction of the dues, he had stated to the miners that if these dues were taken and charged on the consolidated fund there must be such a reduction of duty as would be likely to make up the deficiency to the revenue. His opinion, however, was, that they would be ultimately compelled to make a further reduction of duty; but this was no more an argument for a duty of 12s. than for a duty of 15s.; for in the absence of information, which could be ascertained only by the test of actual experience, he could not say what amount of duty it was proper to impose; and when

make it imperative on the inhabitants to submit to the provisions of the act, however much they might detest them. The noble Lord had not enabled the House to judge of the effect of the clauses, by giving any notice whatever. [Lord J. Russell.-Last night I gave notice.] It was quite inaudible. It seemed clear to him, in fact, that the noble Lord had determined not to pass the bill into a law. He felt it was quite impossible to discuss the clauses with effect, no notice having been given; and if Government had determined not to pass the bill, it was quite

assent to the omission of the twenty-six
that had been left out. If they were to
be told, that the Lords having changed
the whole bill, in principle almost as
much as in form, having altered every
clause, they could not make any changes
that might seem required in those amend-
ments, then it was at least as competent
for him to say that the House of Lords
could not have so made amendments
without supposing that there would be
some risk of the rejection of the bill in
consequence, sending down, as they had,
so many clauses which must be peculiarly
objectionable to those on his side of the
House, so many provisions which must be
peculiarly obnoxious to the representatives
of Ireland. He might say this with as
much justice as the right hon. Gentle-
man opposite had said, that he (Lord J.
Russell) had determined not to pass the
bill at all, because he had not submitted
himself, because he had not bent his neck,
to the yoke of the House of Lords. As
to the assertion, that the clauses would
not in effect introduce the provisions of
the act of the 9th George 4th into the
smaller towns of Ireland, he should only
remark, that the Lords had determined
that the Irish towns, with the exception
of twelve, shoul
board of com

Ida and to ex