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production of those instructions. time, it should be said, on mere suspicions would consent to lay no such grounds, entertained and picked up from public because he felt it would be detrimental to rumour, or from an officer who had bethe public service if these instructions trayed his trust, that on these things being were produced. The noble and learned alleged, an immediate revelation was to Lord who had brought forward this motion be made to the world of the course of conhad said, that the person who had made duct which, when these circumstances the revelation on this occasion, who had which suspicion had entertained had hapstated to the House what ought not to pened, the Government would be prepared have been stated, was his noble Friend, to pursue, to state in what sense they the First Lord of the Admiralty, for, ob- would he prepared to construe, and to served the noble and learned Lord, the execute existing treaties, and to inform the noble Earl had admitted, that he had world how far they would step beyond the issued an instruction. But his noble line of the treaties in force, in vindication Friend had undoubtedly added, that the of the first interests of the country. But instructions he had issued, were instruc- would it be proper, on such mere rumours, tions to meet contingencies. Was that a for the Government to step forward, and revelation inconvenient to the public state the vigorous and commanding tone of service, or was it a revelation which con- policy which particular circumstances might stituted a ground for the production of call for and require? He would maintain, those instructions? His noble Friend had that no Administration could stand such a not stated the actual instructions issued course no foreign policy could be mainby him; it would be wrong for him to do tained, if such were the temper of this and so, as it would be wrong for any public the other House of Parliament, as to reofficer to reveal and lay before, not only quire information on the principle sought the House and the country, but before the to be established, for the first time, by States of Europe, that course of policy the noble and learned Lord. He would which on a certain contingency the Go- appeal to the noble Duke opposite, who vernment, for the defence of the nation, had been at the head of the affairs of this and the maintenance of its best interests, country, who had presided over the foreign were prepared to recommend. His noble Department, whether, being in that high Friend, on a former occasion,h ad even station, he should have thought himself put the case hypothetically, that if an treated with that confidence which he event had taken place, he would have might justly ask and demand-if, on an taken a particular course; but he had not unfounded rumour, that Russia was taking stated, what that particular course would a particular situation which would affect have been. In like manner he was de- the whole interests of the nation-if, on a barred, by what he owed to the interests mere suspicion of that kind, Parliament of his country, from going into a discussion had stepped forward and desired to obtain of those matters into which, if this was a from him a revelation of the course which vote of censure, he should be entitled, as in such case he should advise the Sovehe was prepared, to enter. At present, he reign to pursue. He did not believe, that was not justified in doing so; but it was during the Administration of the noble still his duty to beseech their Lordships not Duke, nor at the present time, would Parto come to a vote on the present motion, liament be prepared to call for any such without considering what the conse- information. He well knew, that if the quences of its adoption practically might information were granted, it might excite be, here and elsewhere, with regard to the more jealousy and rivalry, and more surely policy of this country towards foreign bring into activity those elements of war States. The noble and learned Lord had (which it was the duty of all governments talked of the interests of peace, and he did to allay), than all those events alluded to not dispute the interest which the noble by the noble Earl on the cross benches and learned Lord had long taken in that (the Earl of Carnarvon), which had prosubject; but the noble and learned Lord duced from time to time interruptions to had talked of the dangers to peace arising the public tranquillity. The noble and from supposed instructions which had never learned Lord had ridiculed the idea that been executed. What danger would there the instructions contained anything of a not be to the peace of Europe, if, follow-confidential character. The noble and ing the principle now laid down for the first learned Lord was under the delusion that

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the instructions had been executed by a
frigate with 600 men in one place, and by
700 men in another place. If that were
so, of course, the instructions once acted
upon ceased to be confidential, for they
were then made known to the world. But
before executed, as in this case, the in-
structions were confidential; they were
so while they remained in the cabinet of
the statesman prepared to meet uncertain
events, and to be produced if the evil oc-
curred, but involving risks, dangers, and
uncertainties, about which it was unwise
to inquire. Were not these the most con-
fidential transactions that took place? and
both the Government and those whom
they employed in the matter were charged
with the sacred duty of concealing from
public knowledge those arrangements, the
promulgation of which, might endanger
the peace of the world. He maintained,
that the present motion, if adopted, would
lay the foundation of a most dangerous
precedent. If it was the pleasure of the
House to call for these instructions, he
begged to wash his hands of the precedent
which hereafter might frequently be
brought into play and made to bear upon
the nicest operations of all future Govern-
ments, but, at the same time, he claimed
the right hereafter of saying, that the pre-
cedent had been made this night.

The Earl of Aberdeen said, it could not
be denied, that for some time past the con-
duct of this Government, and that of other
countries, had contributed to cast doubt
on the principles and practice avowed and
recognised by the laws of nations. On
several occasions the practice had been
doubly odious, because these acts of vio-
lence had recently been always committed
against the weak and powerless, whilst
this country had buckled to the powerful
and the strong. The noble Earl opposite
(Minto) had justified this under what he
termed the obligations of the treaty; the
noble Viscount at the head of the Govern-
ment was too prudent to do so, and the
noble Marquess who had just sat down
had not ventured to justify this proceeding
on any such grounds. But the position
taken by the noble Earl, the first Lord of
the Admiralty, had given to the subject an
interest tenfold greater than he had anti-
cipated could be connected with it. He
had always objected to this treaty; still,
if the noble Earl opposite could make
out that this country was bound by the
articles of the treaty to the extent for

which he had contended, then, in that
case, bad as the treaty was before, in his
judgment, it was made still worse, for it
brought the country to the very verge of
a state of war at any hour. The noble
Earl had stated, and he thought had
stated truly, that this country was dis-
tinguished and eminent for its fidelity in
the maintenance and execution of treaties
to which it was a party. That, however,
had not always been the opinion of the
noble Viscount (Melbourne), for he well
remembered, some years ago, the noble
Viscount, then sitting on the Opposition
side of the House, on making a motion for
a long list of papers connected with the
Peninsula, entered into a review of the
treaties which England had violated, the
allies she had deserted, from the treaty of
Utrecht down to the time at which the
noble Viscount spoke, and he made it
clear, that no country was so disgraced by
a want of adherence to treaties, as was
Great Britain. He then differed from the
noble Viscount, and now concurred in
thinking, that in this respect, the noble
Viscount's colleagues was right; nay, he
would go further, and say, that the more
democratic was the country, the less bind-
ing and scrupulously were treaties held
and observed. Be that as it might, if this
country were strict in the execution of
treaties, the more important it became,
that the country should know what the
obligations of its treaties were. Now, the
second article of this treaty was binding
upon Great Britain to furnish the Queen
of Spain the assistance of a naval force if
necessary. And the history of that article
was, that at the time the treaty was con-
cluded her Majesty's Government believed,
that under it they would be able to exer-
cise the right of blockade. Further in-
quiries, however, served to prove to them,
that they were unable, except in a state
of war, to exercise the right of blockade
or to stop a British, or any entering
ship. When this was discovered, they
exercised their naval co-operation in ano-
ther manner-namely, by conveying troops
and succour to various ports on the coast
of Spain. The noble Earl opposite had
said, that the naval force was instructed
so stop the Sardinian vessels with all pos-
sible politeness, but could it be supposed,
that a Sardinian officer, in no respect
different from those of this country, would
be put out of his course with impunity?
Knowing the character of that military

nation, could it be supposed, that a Sar- if the noble Earl who presided over the dinian commander would tamely submit Admiralty had taken no notice of the reto be stopped by an English force? The marks of the noble and learned Baron result, therefore, would have been, that (Lord Lyndhurst) the other night, the the Sardinian frigate might have been subject would have passed by as a mere sunk, and then the Sardinian people, rumour. But it had been otherwise, and though feeble in comparison with this hence this discussion. The noble Marquess great nation, but still possessing a high also had appealed to the noble Duke near military spirit, would have sought repara-him (the Duke of Wellington), and asked tion, and the peace of Europe been dis-how, upon the suspicion of any supposed turbed. Now, this state of things was encroachments by Russia, he would feel if entirely, he thought, to be attributed to the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Minto). He had seen reports in the public papers of her Majesty's Government having given orders to stop the approach of Sardinian frigates to the Spanish coast; but he did not believe it possible, that as had been stated by his noble and learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst), on concluding his speech some time ago, this had been the case, and that it was matter of good fortune that this country was not now at war. And what had the noble Earl opposite (the Earl of Minto) said since? Why, that if the instructions did not exist, yet that if such a state of things had arisen as to call for their being issued, he should immediately have issued such an order. The noble Earl had then asked if the knowledge of those instructions had not been acquired through a breach of confidence on the part of an individual. Did not that inquiry prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that such instructions did really exist? And now to-night the noble Earl said, that not only would he have issued them, but that this country was bound under the articles of the treaty, which it was said could not be deviated from. It had been said, that this motion was injurious to the policy the Government were pursuing, but he thought that after what had taken place the House and the country had a right to know what the course of the Government was. Was it war or not? They might flatter themselves that they could exercise a domineering spirit over weak powers, such as those of Sardinia and Don Miguel, and of other feeble States; but what would be It effect on the opinions of other and more powerful nations? He, however, hoped still to see Sardinia attached to Austria, a circumstance of the highest possible importance to this country. The noble Marquess opposite had opposed the motion as injurious to the public interests. But how had the question arisen? Why,

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asked the course he would pursue upon such and such contingencies. But that was an hypothetical case, not at all resembling the present. Here the fact was not only created, but still existed-not only existed but the noble Earl stated, that he had been bound to create this state of things under the treaty. His noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) might justly, therefore have declined to give information as to what he might intend to do; here the case was different, for the act was done, and had been promulgated by the noble Earl himself. He, the noble Earl, praised the act done but he complained of its having been found out; and that made him desire accurate information to enable the House and the country to know the situation in which it stood. It was too much for the noble Earl and his colleagues to bring the country into jeopardy, and then tell the House they ought not to interfere. But if any one of the noble Lords opposite would get up and state that these supposed instructions! were of non existence, the matter would be at an end. Failing that, he thought: they were bound to the House and the country to state the condition to which their policy, as they called it, had brought the country. Whilst he (the Earl of Aberdeen) protested against the spirit of the quadruple treaty, still he wished to see its letter honestly carried out, and not extended to suit the caprice, the passion, or the prejudices of any noble Lord. The King of the French had interpreted it as a wise and honest man ought, and yet the noble Lords opposite, who had taken credit for limiting the extent of interference in the affairs of Spain, now availed themselves of the vagueness of the treaty to extend to any degree the nature of their interference. But, according to the interpretation of the noble Earl opposite (Minto), the second article was a treaty of defence; defence against whom? The Queen of Spain was no enemy. It was

true Don Carlos had not been recognised as an independent state, and most undoubtedly this treaty, so far from being defensive, was offensive against all the world. He was one of the first to say, that he thought the noble Lord opposite did right to recognise the Queen of Spain; but still it was a question of great doubt even to the Spanish nation, and what was there to prevent other nations from taking a different view, and under that view to assist the rival claimant of the Crown? Nay, some time ago the noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs admitted, that other powers had a right, not only to acknowledge Don Carlos, but to assist him. That might, perhaps, be done without bringing us into collision with those Powers which took a different part from ourselves, but it was a state of things which could not long exist. The treaty, then, was really an offensive treaty with the Queen of Spain against the whole world; but the King of the French was much too wise to put such an interpretation upon it. The engagements of such a treaty appeared to be all on one side. The Queen of Spain was to endeavour to govern Spain pacifically, and that was all. But if this treaty was binding in the way the noble Lords opposite interpreted it, then it would bind us to interminable interference with the affairs of Spain so long as any cause of trouble or dispute remained, because the preamble set forth that the pacification of Spain was the object of the treaty. The noble Lord opposite said the first treaty was completed by the expulsion of the two princes from Portugal. But this treaty proposed, not the expulsion of Don Carlos, but the pacification of Spain; and, therefore, it could have no termination. It appeared to him, that the interests of this country required that it should come to an end. He had not looked at the treaty with all the attention he should have looked at it if he were obliged to interpret it as the noble Lords, and still more as the noble Earl at the head of the Admiralty had interpreted it. He thought, that if those noble Lords would examine the treaty more closely, they would not find any difficulty in bringing it to an end. He should support the motion, because it would enable their Lordships to understand precisely the position in which the country stood in relation to this subject.

The Marquess of Londonderry said,

amidst repeated cries of "Question," that the noble Earl had himself only to thank for a motion which it was his duty to support.

The Duke of Wellington could not permit the House to come to a division on this subject without addressing a few words to their Lordships, in consequence of what had fallen from the noble Marquess opposite, who had stated, that this was a question of policy upon which addresses had been moved which were very improper and very inconvenient to the public service. But this was a question of treaty. The noble Earl at the Admiralty had stated it to be so. The noble Lords opposite ought to make themselves clearly understood on this point; and he entreated them not to send the House away with the notion that they were calling for papers which it would be inconvenient for the Government to make public. They ought to explain what they meant by the obligations of the treaty. If there was a defensive treaty, as stated by the noble Lords, let it be shown to be so. Were they, by words or by implication, to be involved in a treaty either offensive or defensive, and have no power to ask the question as to the obligation of the treaty, let what would happen? In the case of a quarrel between the Queen of Spain and the King of Sardinia, we might be bound to go to war. noble and learned Lord had given sufficient notice of his motion, and of the very terms of his motion, and the noble Lords opposite ought to be prepared with an answer. They ought to say something which would make the House avoid putting the Government to any inconvenience, and to explain what was the meaning of this treaty with respect to this paragraph, of which the noble Earl had thought proper to give something.

The

The Earl of Minto wished, in explanation, to prevent any misunderstanding arising in the mind of the noble Duke as to what his opinion was with regard to the obligations of the treaty. In the first place he begged to observe that in stating what he had said, and what he now repeated, he was delivering not the deliberate opinion of the Government, collected after consultation, but his own individual opinion. Now let their lordships permit him to state what was his own opinion, whether it was upheld by others or not. The obligations of this treaty went to this; that if any power-not if any power had a

quarrell with the Queen of Spain, that we were to make war, as the noble Duke had supposed-but if any powers combined with Don Carlos in warlike operations, he did hold, that the obligations of the treaty were to be strictly enforced. He did not understand that this treaty would apply to any other case except that which might arise in the contest between the Queen of Spain and Don Carlos.

The Duke of Wellington said, the noble Earl was at the head of the Admiralty, but he could not have given his instructions without first receiving them from the Secretary of State. The noble Lord might come down to the House and give what version he pleased with respect to the obligations of the treaty; but when he came to the instructions, he ought to look twice at the subject, for he must be quite sure that he had received them from the Secretary of State before he gave them.

Viscount Melbourne said, he wished to say a few words after what had passed. In the observations he had advanced before, he had studiously avoided discussing any of the matters which had been brought forward by the noble and learned Lord, because, notwithstanding the powers, the eloquence, and the talents of that noble and learned Lord, he had so much confidence in the patriotism, and wisdom, and experience of their Lordships, that he flattered himself that in a few sentences he could convince them that it was in the highest degree imprudent to enter into such a discussion. In that hope he had to a certain degree been disappointed, and it was not now his intention to depart from that resolution which he had made before, and to go into any parts of the'question for the purpose of considering what had been done, or what was supposed to have been done, or what should yet be done or whether what was done was demanded by the treaty, or was beyond its boundaries, and entirely removed from its meaning and not authorized by it. He would not enter into that, because he should be departing from the rule which he had laid down. If this question ought to be discussed at all, it ought to be discussed fully

he whole case ought to be investigated, and the discussion should be carried on with an accurate knowledge of the whole case. With respect to the treaty, he entirely agreed with the noble Duke in the interpretation he had put upon it. He

He

agreed that a naval force should be employed to carry into effect the objects of the treaty, as they were to be collected from the preamble, and that it was not in any respect a treaty of alliance, offensive or defensive, with the Queen of Spain against the rest of the world. agreed with the noble Earl opposite with respect to the opinion of his noble Friend, the Secretary for Foreign affairs, delivered in another place, that any power had a right to assist Don Carlos. But whether that would lead to a war was another question. With respect to the instructions, he had considered that matter was set at rest, because those instructions were confidential, and the question of their having been carried into effect not having arisen. He still held the opinion which he had held at the commencement of the debate, that the production of those instructions would be most inconvenient, and tend to embarrass the policy of the Government; it would encourage those who were opposed to that policy, and discourage those who were inclined to assist it.

Lord Brougham said, amid loud cries of "Question," he would not detain the House a moment. He defied the oldest individual in the world to find in the history of Administrations down to the present time, a parallel case to that of the present Administration. Could any mortal man have thought to see such a display as they had made of themselves? Could it have been expected that such a display would have been made by the First Lord of the Admiralty? The very thing which that noble Lord had used against him, as an argumentum ad hominem, the noble Viscount in a moment of extreme pressure, in the utmost exigency, had got up in a second speech to disavow. But when the noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty said it was not disavowed, he was supported and cheered by two Members of the Cabinet. Now the noble Viscount disavowed it and would go no further than to say, that we were bound to give naval assistance to the Queen of Spain. Whether the treaty was offensive or defensive, one thing was clear her Majesty's Ministers were thrown into a defenceless situation-in fact, they were in a most awkward position, in a most helpless condition. The noble Viscount's speech was entirely destitute of argument from the beginning to the end; it had not a single rag to cover its

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