nd stated, that it was rendered necessary by the defective and insufficient accommodation in the prisons of that country.

The Duke of Hamilton lamented, that so little time had been given to their Lordsh ps for the consideration of this measure. It was only introduced into the House on Monday, and now, on the third day, they were called upon to assent to the second reading of the bill. It was for their Lordships to consider how far they would be justified in acting in so prompt and inconsiderate a manner.

this grievance, he had declined to present | Chancellor moved the second reading of it. The case he considered to be one of the prisons (Scotland) bill, such great hardship, that he could no longer refrain from pressing it upon their Lordships' attention. The petitioners complained, that the entire business of providing for their parish church, and for all that was connected with their spiritual wants, depended upon the will of a lay rector, who was totally exempt from episcopal jurisdiction. This lay impropriator had not, for two or three years past, made any provision for the discharge of ministerial duties in the parish; and the sick, if visited at all, were visited by clergy from the adjoining parishes. The entire sum expended during that period for spiritual purposes by the individual to whom he referred was only 307., although he was in the receipt of nearly 6007. a year from tithes. There were several noble Lords present connected with Sussex, who could bear testimony to the accuracy of this statement. He would suggest, that a clause should be introduced into the Benefices and Pluralities Bill to provide for the relief of these petitioners.

The Duke of Richmond felt it to be his duty, as a magistrate and land-owner in the county of Sussex, to corroborate the statement of the right rev. Prelate. This was a parish in the eastern division of Sussex, containing a population of 1,600 souls; and, in consequence of its having a lay rector, the people were not only deprived, frequently, of the advantage of having any church service, but they had not even the benefit of the attendance of clergy upon them during sickness, unless when some neighbouring clergyman attended from motives of charity. The petitioners, he would observe, were highly respectable. He trusted, that the most rev. Prelate, who had the charge of the Benefices and Pluralities Bill, would put in a strong clause upon this subject.

The Archbishop of Canterbury said, that there could be no doubt of the great hardship and crying scandal of the case which had been stated by the right rev. Prelate. There could be as little doubt, that the conduct of the impropriator was very much to be condemned. He was quite disposed to favour the very reasonable views which the petitioners entertained.

Petition to lie on the table.

The Duke of Richmond hoped that no long delay would be interposed to passing this bill. Bad indeed as were the prisons in this country, with a very few exceptions, those in Scotland were infinitely worse. The prisons in Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Aberdeen were very fair prisons, but there were many prisons in Scotland, in which males and females were confined together; very few of them had airing yards at all, and there was nothing like classification in any of the gaols. He should suggest to his noble Friend, the noble Duke (Hamilton), that if the bill were now read a second time, they might defer'going into Committee till that day week, and that would give the House time to look into the details of the measure. He did not think that the sum required was much-only 30,000%.

when it was considered, that the object was to endeavour to reform the prisoners of Scotland. He hoped, therefore, that their Lordships would permit the bill to be read a second time now, and then they could consider its details in Committee at a subsequent period.

The Duke of Buccleuch would not oppose the second reading of the bill, but if it were not for the very late period of the session, he should have requested that it might be postponed for a few days. The bill had been some time in the lower House of Parliament, and he did not understand why it had not reached their Lordships earlier. He was extremely sorry that so important a bill should have come on at the very close of the session. If any person was acquainted with Scotland, he must be perfectly aware that the prisons in that country were in a most inefficient and improper state for the reception of criminals, and especially in cases where confinement was not only intended as a punishment for an offence committed, but

Bill read a second time.

also to reclaim criminals from their mode 'rested, that the bill which he had laid
of life. Pasoners in Scotland were often on the table, gave reasonable and satis-
confined for common assanits, or offences factory security to make it safe to admit
against the game laws, or the excise laws, hose persons to affirm, instead of taking
and these persons were mixed with the an oath; and they praved, that for the
most hardened offenders. As he had al-, sake of the public benefit, and the due
ready said, he should not oppose the se- administration of justice, the evidence of
cond reading of the bill, but he honed that those persons might be received under the
sutficient time would be allowed for their arrangements made in the bill. The noble
Lordships to look narrowly into it, and and learned Lord also presented a petition
consider its provisions.
from certain inhabitants of London and
the neighbourhood, who stated, that they
never had belonged to the Society of
Friends, but still they entertained" an
opinion that oaths were unlawful; that
feeling so, and refusing to take the oath
when called on to give evidence, they had
narrowly escaped being sent to prison,
and they urged, that in consequence of
their scruples, and the state of the law,
persons were deprived of the benefit of
their testimony, and that the ends of jus-
tice were thus defeated, and though the
petitioners felt that some of the provisions
of the bill before the House were insuf-
ficient, still they prayed that it might be
passed into a law.

The Earl of Wicklow had understood the bill to proceed on the ground of the objections to take oaths made by persons who formerly belonged to the society called Quakers. It appeared, however, from the last petition, that other persons claimed the same exception. To this he (the Earl of Wicklow) could not consent, though he would abstain from voting against this bill, if the noble and learned Lord would consent to confine its operation solely to those who had been Quakers but had now seceded from that persua

APPIRMATIONS IN COURTS OF LAW] Lord Denman, before moving the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Affirm ations Bill, had several petitions to present in favour of that measure. The first peti- I tion was from certain inhabitants of Manchester and its vicinity, who had formerly belonged to the Society of Friends, but who had now seceded from that body, and attached themselves to the Church of England; they still, however, retained their objections to take oaths, as required by the statute, and therefore could not now be received as witnesses in courts of justice. Under these circumstances, they prayed to be relieved from the situation in which, by their decision, they were now placed. The next petition was from 100 merchants and bankers of Manchester and its neighbourhood, men of great respectability and influence, who stated, that they knew a great number of persons, formerly Quakers, who had seceded from that sect; and the petitioners prayed, that for their security, those individuals might be admitted to make affirmation, instead of being, as now, obliged to take oaths, to make them competent witnesses in courtssion. of justice. The noble and learned Lord Lord Denman, in moving the Order of observed, that, with reference to this sub- the Day for the third reading of the bill, ject, he had received a letter from Mr. said, that he should be sorry to make the Foster, a justice of the peace for the exclusion to which the noble Earl advercounties of Chester and Lancaster, forted, for one of the gentlemen on whose many years a police magistrate of Man- behalf he had moved in this matter, and chester, and now chairman of the Salford to whom he had often before referred, quarter sessions-a gentleman who, from never had been a Quaker, and yet had his experience, was competent to form an the same objection as was entertained by opinion on the subject. The letter was that body to the taking of oaths. That also signed by seventeen other magistrates gentleman had declined a situation of of the county of Lancaster, including the 8007. per annum, in consequence of his chairman of the voting prstices, and objection even to administer an oath; and all these gentlemen stated their cons iction, yet if that gentleman were called as a that great incon's plenes and evils were witness before him (Lord Denman in the now produced, by the eschaton of persons Court of Queen's Bench, to-morrow, he who were ready to make firm itions, but should have no option but to send that objected to take oaths, and they suggoudeman to prison for refusing to give

Courts of Law. 318 evidence on oath. Sooner, however, I understood, was considered necessary by than that the bill should not pass, he the noble and learned Lord, and his would consent to take it with the re- learned brethren, the judges, who from striction pointed out by the noble Earl op- their experience found, that considerable posite. interruption occurred to the ends of Lord Holland said, he felt bound to justice from the impossibility of obtaining remark, that Mr. Foster, whose recom- the evidence of many worthy and excelmendation had been alluded to by his lent men who had conscientious objections noble and learned Friend was one of the to take an oath. It must be irksome and most useful magistrates in Manchester, abhorrent to the learned judges to be and that on the authority of that gentle- compelled to punish individuals so cirman he could state, that the feeling in fa- cumstanced, and feeling, that this was a vour of this measure was not confined to judicial measure important to the ends of those who sought the exemption for them-justice, he felt it his duty to vote in faselves. The matter was of general pub-vour of the bill of the noble and learned lic importance, for the hardship of the present law was not so much on those who refused now to take oaths, as upon the persons who were thus deprived of the benefit of their evidence. Under this feeling there was in Manchester a very general desire for this bill.

The Earl of Wicklow said, he found that his amendment could not in form be proposed until the bill had been read a third time. Now, he must object to the third reading, unless he had an assurance from the noble and learned Lord, that he would afterwards agree to his (the Earl of Wicklow's) amendment, to confine the bill to those persons who had been Quakers.

Lord Ashburton, was understood to say, that if relief should be given at all, this bill was wholly insufficient. He, however, objected entirely to the measure. He had also received communications on this subject, and he was still of opinion that the general evidence in English Courts of Justice, would be greatly impaired when the great mass of the community found, that evidence was not given under the solemn sanction of an oath. If, however, anything was to be done by legislation on this matter, he should be inclined to confine it, as suggested by the noble Earl behind him (the Earl of Wicklow) to persons who had belonged to the society of Quakers; at the same time, he could not help thinking, that by this plan the lives and properties of the people would be less carefully guarded under so loose a mode of admitting evidence, than they were at present. If the House went to a division, he should vote against the third reading oft he bill.

The Marquess of Bute looked upon this bill as being a judicial and not a political measure a measure which, as he

Lord.

Lord Ellenborough observed, that he had altered the bill to the form in which it would stand if the amendment of his noble Friend (the Earl of Wicklow) was agreed to, and he found, that in that case it would be necessary to strike out one half of the preamble and the same quantity of the enactments, which was scarcely a fit way to deal with a bill on its third reading. The better course would be, to throw out this bill, and then the noble and learned Lord might bring in a fresh bill embodying the principle contended for by his noble Friend.

Lord Denman said, it was true, that the bill was a judicial measure, for the purpose of effecting the admission of the truth in courts of justice, but the noble Marquess had misunderstood him (Lord Denman) in supposing, that he had the authority of the judges to state, that it was generally their opinion that the bill should pass into a law. The bill, however, did rest upon some authority, for one of his most respected brethren, Mr. Baron Alderson, had, at an early period of this Session, drawn up a bill on this subject, which fell through because it had been thought more convenient to annex its provisions to another measure, which had been rendered necessary by a decision of the Irish judges with respect to the admission as witnesses of Presbyterians without an oath. By the existing law evidence was excluded upon which life and limb, and property to a vast extent, might depend. As long as these persons were Quakers they had the protection of the law, but they were deprived of that on becoming members of the Church of England. Should that, in justice, be so? The only objection to the bill was that mentioned by the noble Baron opposite (Lord Ashburton), viz., that the gen

to say,

eral effect of evidence in courts of justice [importance; were here to be my and would be diminished, because under the what reforms or alterations ʼn he astringbill certain individuals would be permitted tration of justice' There were wate I do not think it lawful to take jurists, white grand uk wale mags an oath, and I request to be permitted to trates, and white judges, beng al beans make an affirmation." The observation connected with the sytem of sey, mi would be quite as good with reference to more or less prejudiced a favor of the Quakers, who were examined every day planters. He believed, among the udges, without an oath. Did a Quaker have less that there was but one who was 10t respect for the truth because he gave prejudiced. There must be predic evidence on affirmation? or would a man between white and black, for along who made an oath think he was less bound the distinction between master and save to speak the truth because a Quaker was might be destroyed, the other fistuction not sworn? The evil which he had brought could not be destroyed, it was inherent a under the notice of their Lordships was the nature of things; and he feared that one of great magnitude; he had sug- great evils might arise from thereafter. gested a remedy, and had persevered to There was another question connected the last in attempting to get that remedy with this subject, and it was one of the applied; and though the result might be greatest importance. What was to be unfavourable, he felt it his duty to take the condition of the colonial legislature their Lordships opinion upon the ques hereafter? A short period would make the tion. If defeated now, he should cer- emancipated negroes electors, and ittainly bring forward the subject again, mately, unless an alteration was made in at an early period of the ensuing session. the law, they would preponderate, and Their Lordships divided. Content became also the majority of petty jurors. 16: Not-content 32: Majority 16. He did not say, that by legislation this ought to be prevented, but it was a state of things that ought to be looked forward to as one that would require legislation. He was far from thinking that the difficulties of the noble Baron were at an end; he thought they were only commencing. He could not but express his surprise that it was not until the 17th of November last year the noble Baron asked for information on points which were of the greatest importance.

Bill lost.

PRISONS IN THE WEST INDIES.] Lord Glenelg moved the second reading of the West Indies Prisons Bill.

Lord Ellenborough had looked over the bill, and thought it was a very proper one. He would take that opportunity of asking the noble Baron, whether he had received answers to the sixteen questions, which, on the 17th of November last, he put in a circular letter to the governors of the several colonies on important matters He thought it was highly necessary to make provisions with a view to the coming period of the universal emancipation of the slaves. This bill related only to one point; and he wished to ask the noble Baron what measure he intended with respect to maintaining, or increasing, or diminishing, the present number of special magistrates. He was of opinion that it would not be consists ut with the approach ing state of things to dimmah the numbia,agistrates would be required, but he on the contrary, he thong hit that bands destcly on thu 12444466*** period of unload A

{r;

Lord Glenelg said, that answers to the questions put in the circular letter alluded to by the noble Baron had been received from several of the colonies. The special magistrates, would, of course, cease to be so on the expiration of the act under which they were appointed, but it was intended to continue them under another name, and some other system which would enable them with the same watchfulness to superintend the state of things. He was not quite clear that the same number of

could give no positive opinion on that thpoint at present. He quite agreed with od the noble Baron that the persons, whose ition in society would be changed, ould requie very vigilant watchfulness. il. b. also that prejudices arising from Jurrence of colour would exist, and

I that it would be some time yould be eradicated; but he

pany, against the Mails on Railroads Bill, and from tion:-Ayes 76; Noes 78: Majority 2.

moved that the House resolve itself into a Blackstone, W. S.

Committee on the Church Vestries Bill.