Lord Brougham wished to say a few words in reference to the gentleman who had been charged with barratry. That gentleman had done nothing to subject him to such a charge. He had been guilty of some violence, because he had felt his honour to have been touched; and the noble Duke had admitted, that that violence was the only thing which prevented him from recommending him to be appointed to the magistracy. The noble Duke had stated, that he had no other ob

had received some information in regard | the magistracy, and their Lordships might to that list, which he would put into the assure themselves, that the public would hand of the noble and learned Lord; and ultimately feel, that those who wished to he begged the noble and learned Lord to keep the magistrates clear of party and look into that communication, and then uninfluenced by political motives, and to judge whether he was not likely to have select the justices of the peace from the been deceived by the mode which he had persons of the greatest influence in the adopted to obtain his information. He country, were the best friends of their would place that communication in the country. hands of the noble and learned Lord, with the hope that it would open his eyes to the bad effects likely to arise from seeking to obtain information from the description of persons to whom he had alluded, and who, he contended, were unqualified to give a sound and impartial opinion on the subject. He would insist that the law intended, and Parliament had expressed its decided opinion on the subject, that those officers ought not to be political, and that the magistrates ought not to be selected from party or political motives. Parlia-jection to the gentleman alluded to, and ment had clearly declared its opinion on had admitted, that in every other respect this point by a clause in the English Cor- his character was irreproachable. He poration Bill. An attempt was made to wished that that statement should be made give, by that bill, a power to the corpora- known distinctly, as the gentleman alluded tions to recommend the magistrates to be to was a most estimable and highly respectappointed for those corporations; but, by able individual. There was no barratry, a clause which was moved in that House, for barratry meant a stirring up of suits; and agreed to in the other House of Par- and he did not know how such a term liament, it was decided that the corpora- could be applied to the conduct of the tions should have no such power. He was gentleman who had been alluded to. With aware, that a noble Lord in the other respect to what the noble Duke had said House had contended for extending such in the conclusion of his speech, he (Lord a power to the corporations; but Parlia- Brougham) was sure that the people did ment decided otherwise, and held, that the feel the necessity of keeping the adminismagistrates should not be selected from tration of justice pure, and those who expolitical motives, and that they ought to erted themselves to keep the magistrates be kept, as far as possible, clear from clear from party and political feelings, party. Such was the law, and such was were entitled to the thanks of the country. the declaration of Parliament; and he He by no means thought, however, that contended, that the principle upon which the best mode to effect that desirable obParliament had acted, was the only prin- ject, was by adopting a system of excluciple by which they could secure the pure sion. If, on the other hand, they proadministration of justice. He was always ceeded upon the principle of creating six unwilling to enter upon such discussions Whig justices, because six Tory justices as the present, as he was aware, that they already existed, or six Tory justices bewere generally painful, while they led to cause six Whigs had been previously no results. The noble and learned Lord created magistrates, then they would have had said, that he would persevere in the the bench divided, not on the merits of same course which he had hitherto pur- any case which might come before them, sued. Be it so; and all that he would but on political grounds; and such a say was, that as custos rotulorum, he course, therefore, was extremely liable to could not prevent himself from feeling a objection. He was quite sure, that the strong want of confidence in such a mode best results would flow from the Lord of performing the duties of the noble Chancellor keeping his ears open, if he Lord's high office, as the noble and learned did not place himself in improper hands; Lord had described. His object was, to and to whom, he would ask, could the have men of respectability appointed to Lord Chancellor apply with more con

an answer to the question he put respecting the memorial of which he desired a copy.

The Lord Chancellor was not aware of the existence of any memorial of the kind. Lord Wharncliffe said, that under these circumstances he must, of course, withdraw his motion. He would, however, fairly state his opinion, that he believed the proceeding to which he had called their Lordships' attention, to be a political move. The Lord Chancellor had received private applications from persons who, he believed, had made those applications from political motives; and all that had fallen from the noble and learned Lord, had only served to confirm his opinion on this point. The noble and learned Lord had said, that he (Lord Wharncliffe) had interest in the county, and of course liked the old bench better than the new; and it was to be presumed, he supposed, that his preference for the old bench was founded on party feelings. Was it, then, intended by new appointments to destroy his political interest? He repeated, that the noble and learned Lord, by attending to private applications with regard to the appointment of magistrates, had been made the instrument of a political party.

fidence for utformance than to the lordsLieutenant' He agreed with those who mid, that the bords-bentenant would be placed in a d ferect position, if the Lord Chandelier applard to them for information în respect to individuals recommended for appoziments in the magistracy, provided those persons were rejected, and the grounds of that rejection stated. He would mention the course which, in such cases, he himself had invariably followed. He had received, while he filled the office of Lord Chancellor, recommendations from county and borough Members, and from other persons; and he had made it a rule to apply for information to the lords-lieutenant in regard to all those recommendations, and if the lords-lieutenant satisfied him that the persons who had been so recommended ought not to be appointed, he had felt that it was his bounden duty to take the responsibility of the rejection on himself. He held, that he should have been guilty of a very great breach of confidence, had he stated, that the rejection was the consequence of the representations of the lords-lieutenant. The appointments were not in the hands of the lords-lieutenant, but in the hands of the Chancellor, and how the lords-lieutenant came to exercise such a power as they did at present, was difficult to say. He did not see how the system could be much mended, unless a greater number of stipendiary magistrates was appointed; and in all cases he thought that the chairman ought to be a paid officer. That, however, was a sub-ceived, said, that their Lordships had, in ject foreign to the present debate, and on which he should not, therefore, enter at that time.

The Earl of Warwick complained of the applications which had been made to the Lord Chancellor for the appointment of magistrates in the county of which he was lord-lieutenant; and with respect to the municipal boroughs, the general opinion in the county was, that the appointment of magistrates in those places were controlled by the influence of a gentleman who was well acquainted with Warwickshire-he meant Mr. Joseph Parkes. All that had been said regarding the magistrates might with equal propriety be applied to the appointment of sheriffs; and the whole patronage in the county seemed to be dispensed, with an entire regard to party feeling.

Lord Wharncliffe said, he understood that the Lord Chancellor objected to give

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND.)] Viscount Melbourne, in moving that the report of the Committee on Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill be re

the Committee, introduced into the bill numerous and complicated amendments, some of which were of a very technical nature, and could only be judged of with reference to the local circumstances of that part of the kingdom to which they were to be applied. As these amendments were only proposed last Thursday, it was impossible for him, or for his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack, to give any decided opinion with respect to them on the present occasion. At the same time he begged leave to say, that though he was very far from concurring in the propriety of some of them, yet if they were adopted and persevered in by their Lordships, he should not regard them as forming a reason why he should not proceed with the bill; and he would not, therefore, abandon the measure on account of their adoption. He, however, repeated what he had said on a former occasion, that the

sidered would be a great source of strife, and blemish in the bill, calculated to countervail its advantages, and to prevent its proving ultimately satisfactory. But, at the same time, as their Lordships' opinion in favour of the higher qualification had been so distinctly expressed, and supported by such a large majority in Committee, it was not his intention again to stir the question, to propose any amendments to the bill on the present occasion, or to take the sense of their Lordships again on the subject. But he gave notice, that he should, on the third reading, move the addition of a certain number of towns to schedule A; and also the addition of another schedule, containing several other towns, to which he thought corporations and municipal government ought to be given by the bill, with a lower rate of qualification. He now moved, that the Report be received.

amendment introduced by their Lordships, | of the county qualification in Ireland. establishing as a qualification for the bur- Now, he begged their Lordships to congesses under the bill, the occupation of a sider whether the effect of raising the frantenement rated at 107., including repairs chise, had been such as they had exand insurance, appeared to him very ob- pected; and whether, in point of fact, it jectionable. They all knew that the actual had not strengthened those opinions and value of a tenement was far beyond the principles which they never wished to value at which it was rated. He held in strengthen? Had they then any reason his hand a statement of the actual value to expect a dissimilar effect from a similar of many houses in different towns in Ire- provision with regard to municipal voters? land-in Belfast, in Dublin, in Limerick, He begged to say, that he entirely oband others, by which it appeared that thejected to the amendment, which he conactual value of tenements was far, very far, beyond the value at which they were rated. Such was the case in England, and such, he apprehended, was the case everywhere; and he believed, that it was perfectly certain, that the value of a tenement rated at 101. would probably vary from 127. to 157. By adopting the amendment which had been proposed, their Lordships would consequently be establishing in Ireland a qualification which was evidently a great deal too high, and which, he feared, would have the effect of constituting governing bodies for the corporate towns in Ireland, not much less exclusive than those at present in existence. If that were the case, their Lordships must perceive, that their own expectations with regard to the working of the bill would not be answered, and that they would be passing a measure which could neither be satisfactory to the country, nor answer the ends for which it was intended-viz., the establishment of Lord Brougham wished to say a few a free and regular government for muni- words, having been accidentally prevented cipal towns in Ireland, based on the prin- from taking a part in the former discussion ciple of popular election, including and on this bill. He concurred with the noble bringing into its sphere and operation all Viscount in what had just fallen from him, that was generally respectable, and entitled and he confessed, that he was greatly disto have a share in the government of those appointed in the two amendments of his towns. He was aware that the great body noble and learned Friend. His noble of their Lordships had adopted the amend and learned Friend, instead of forcing ment, under the impression, that a high corporations on some towns, proposed to qualification was very advantageous in give those towns means of obtaining coraiding those principles which were gene-porations on application to the Crown, in rally considered as Conservative. He did the meantime vesting the corporate power not know on what ground it was, their in certain commissioners. He thought Lordships formed such an opinion. They with his noble and learned Friend that had already tried an experiment of that the towns in schedule B were too numerkind in Ireland. They had raised the ous, and that by granting corporations to freehold qualification in counties from 40s. all they would be going too low. For the to 107., and making all allowance for the same reason in the schedule of the Scotch means by which the franchise was pro- Burghs Reform Bill in 1833, he had cured, for the perjury which was said to yielded to the opinions of a noble Earl for exist, and the false valuations said to be whom he entertained great respect: he palmed on the revising barristers, still it had given up some of the towns in the was impossible, he apprehended, to deny schedule, and instead of having gone too that that change was a considerable raising | far, he thought that if he had given up

eight or ten towns more, in which it had been found impossible to work the measure well, he should have improved it. For the same reason, then, that he had in 1833 consented to alter the Scotch bill as it came from the Commons, he would agree to an alteration of schedule B in the present bill; but if they struck out all the towns in that schedule they would be going too far. The natural line was to keep in the schedule all the parliamentary boroughs. They were of some consequence and importance. He would leave the residue to petition; and even if there were any parliamentary boroughs of a small class they might be omitted; but all cities and towns of consequence, or of any extent, ought to be included in the bill. So much for the first amendment of his noble and learned Friend. To the second, which was of far more importance, he had a more serious objection Ile would not go over the ground taken by the noble Viscount; for, undoubtedly, though they might talk of a 101. franchise, yet if it were regulated by the rate it would amount to 147, in real value. It was immaterial for the rate what was the value; and whilst noble Lords said, that they would give a 107, franchise, they adopted a test which would exclude all 107, houses, and would really give a franchise of 127. or 147. or 157. Another reason why he (Lord Brougham) differed still more from his noble and learned Friend was one to which he would call his noble Friend's serious attention. The noble Lord wished to include in the 107. the landlord's repairs and insurance; and therefore he did not say in words, but held out that it was not a 101. house, but one of lower value. Perhaps an 87. house would be accepted.

landlord in Ireland repairing such a tenement? In the next place, who would lay out much upon its insurance? But if any one did, it was not likely that it would cost more than 2s. 6d. per cent., and supposing that a 101. house was worth 2001. the insurance would only be 5s. a year. The fact was, however, that the rate was only 1s. 6d. per cent., another instance of a most impolitic tax in England, and the consequence would be, that they would find the qualification to be a very high one, and that it would not be a rated value of 87., but a real value of more than 131. or 14l. But what he wanted to know, and what he could not understand, was, why there was any qualification? There was none in England, where it was only required that the householder should be rated for a certain length of time. In Scotland there was a 10l. franchise, he admitted, but why was it necessary there? Because there was no rate as a test, and it was considered desirable to establish the same parliamentary and municipal qualification to prevent a double registry; but that was not the case in England; no qualification was necessary here, from the large cities down to the smallest towns: being a householder for a certain length of time was sufficient, and every holder of a house had a right to vote. They had tried the experiment; they had found the result; there had been no riot, no confusion; there had been no annoyance to one class more than another; there had been no partiality shown for one class over another; for although under the excitement of the first election, as under the Reform Bill, one class had been preferred, yet the distinction had become less and less; but since, in Liverpool and other Lord Landhurst said: By no means, towns, a large proportion of the councilquite the contrary; he meant only a house lors included in the new elections, he which was let for 101, bonú fide, the tenant believed nearly one-half, were of opposite paying those taxes which usually fell upon politics, he thought that this good the tenant, and were usually paid by him. working of the system ought to be well Lord Brougham continued: What he considered and to be freely taken into wanted, then, to caution noble Lords account in framing the Irish measure. against was, the supposition that what was These opinions led him to think, that they applicable to England was applicable in ought to have adhered to the bill as it was the same degree to Ireland. The test sent from the Commons. On the merits proposed might, for aught he knew, be of the measure itself he thought that it excellent in England, but circumstances was of importance, but in one point of were different in Ireland. How little effect view it was most important, as being a would repairs and insurance have in rais-bill which was intended as a measure of ing the value in Ireland Whoever thought that a 10%, tenement would cost much to keep it in repair? Whoever heard of a

peace, and conciliation, and kindness, towards Ireland. He did not say, that if they passed the bill with his noble Friend's