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214 form their duty and this result had of the chartered colonies, as they had proved to be correct, notwithstanding the nearly the same powers of internal legisrepeated precautions of the noble Lord to lation. He appealed, then, to any noble the contrary. His noble Friend now said Lord whether it were expedient under that the Crown colonies had neither the these circumstances to interfere by means power nor the inclination to perform their of an order of the Queen in Council, and duty, and follow the example set them by whether it would not be more wise and the chartered colonies. If his noble Friend prudent that the same forbearance and was not strictly accurate as to what he moderation that was pursued towards the said with regard to the proceedings of the chartered colonies, should also be followed legislatures of the chartered colonies, he with regard to the legislatures of the would also state that he would not be Crown colonies. He believed, that noble more accurate as to the proceedings of the Lords would agree with him, that that legislatures of the Crown colonies. Ex-right and power which the Queen possessed actly the same ground applied to the over the acts and proceedings of the legisCrown colonies as to the chartered co-latures of the colonies, should only be lonies. Similar instructions to those sent adopted and acted on in cases of necesout to the chartered colonies had been for- sity, and in such cases where Parliament warded to the Crown colonies, and he had would interfere with its authority. He no doubt they would be acted upon by the thought, that this argument must have its local authorities and legislatures in the due weight; that the acts of the Legislasame spirit in the latter case as in the tures of the Crown colonies were only former. His noble Friend said, that the subject to the approbation of the Queen Legislatures of the Crown colonies were of in Council, as was the case with the laws somewhat an anomalous character, and of the chartered colonies; and they did that they could not deal with the subject not come within any act of authority of as the legislatures of the chartered co- any other body. He was happy in being lonies. The fact, however, was, that al- able to state, that in fact the Legislathough the legislative bodies in the Crowntures of the Crown colonies had followed colonies did not possess powers to the the example set them by the Legislatures same extent as those in the chartered co- of the chartered colonies. In addition to lonies, still they were independent legis- the information which had been alluded latures. His noble Friend said, that into by the noble Lord, as having been rethe Crown colonies, the Governor in council corresponded to the executive or legislative council in the other colonies. It was true that the legislature was carried on by the governor and council, or the Court of Policy as it was called in Guiana and other places, but this body possessed all the power of legislation for the internal affairs of the colony, for the levying local taxes and other purposes, as much as the legislative bodies in the chartered colonies. He repeated, this body in the Crown colonies exercised the functions he had stated, and carried on all the legislation, and controlled the taxation, and superintended the law-making for the colony. This legislature, however, was restricted in one respect; it was subject to the approbation of the Queen in Council, in the same degree, and in a similar manner as the acts of the Legislative Assemblies of the chartered colonies required that sanction to become laws. The legislatures of the Crown colonies, however, were as competent to legislate on this subject as the legislatures

ceived from Jamaica, he could also sta e, that similar satisfactory accounts had lately been received from Grenada, and also from the Bahamas, which had arrived within the last few days; and he had good reason to believe, that within a short time from the dates of his com. munications, measures would be originated in these colonies similar to those that had been carried in other chartered colonies. In addition, however, to this, he was happy in being able to state, that in some of the Crown colonies the Governors intended to submit to the le gislative bodies similar acts to those which had been carried in other places, and no doubt was entertained of their success. This had arisen in consequence of the instructions sent out to the Governors of the colonies. He was happy to find, that in the Crown colonies the Legislatures did not find themselves more fettered than in the chartered colonies. Special letters had been sent out to the Governors of the various colonies, stating that the home Government was anxious to

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three gre: Crown colonies the West inute, no nai not the slightest doubt int tWOORDE the three would at once ac

to state what compus: the work and most probably LL. Crown: example would be followed by the LL: Pestate thr. by this means, the question would purpost, be settle a mos: sausiactory manner, and it would render unnecessary the pain alternative. He did not know, that he had arribar more to state, as all that be presume! taat his noble Friend required, was a simple statement of the affairs of the Dolcmnes &. present. He would then ony ad te na inte doubt that before the nex. bession his noble Friend would sec a complete termination of the appren ticeship systent in all the colonies. Lon Frougham nac seen the despatch DIACA akasten në omci... accoun: addressed to to Mauritius, and he begged 20. El Winh te- 'I as his nou Friend, whether he cid DAET recene at know, that unless some special instruc tions were giver to the Crown colonies, that all the Court of Policy could do, was Lass mi act which, OL coming to this country should receive the Royal essent acı aprova.. and that without which assent an approval, it would not be bod1 on the 22.30V. Was not this also the state of tungs as to St. Lucia?

HLI gout was felt as the sanctie * ant boa MELLAN ADELG & SHLUILT PINCEBang na.

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Te mes ant Lord Ashburton remarked, that suppo# JL. T. PASAL 3A 23.00 HOT the notre sing the Governor of the Mauritius foline poodzy, endowed up the instructions sent out to him, tenna ina the Gover- tad the Governor power to give effect to SX FACE rooted the same mas- the acts in accordance with those instrucIs ees, be could tions, without their first being sent home ** 223 TE that the subject had for approval ? smacet & 1. tection in this counmy, ta i must command the serious He should consideration of the colonies. zave observed, that there was this peculithe Mauritius from the other cotties, that the termination of the apprenticeship system of the non-predials was six months later than in other places; that was, that it commenced on the 1st of February, instead of the 1st of August. He entertained no doubt in his own mind, that in this island the result would be that

Lord Brougham was surprised and gratified at the communication that had been made by his noble Friend. He entertained some doubts, however, whether the Governor and Council of the Mauritius and other Crown colonies, without the direct interposition of the Crown could pass such a law as would be requisite. The situation of these Crown colonies was very different from that of the chartered colonies. He would, therefore, recommend that special despatches should be sent out

to each of these colonies, authorizing th Governor in taking the necessary steps. Lord Glenelg thought, that it would turn out that the doubt could easily be resolved, but there could be no possible objection to send out such despatches as had been suggested by his noble Friend.

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spised, of vituperation which they allowed to pass by them as they would any other storm of empty air that they needed not; he gave to such men as Joseph Sturge, James Scoble, Josiah Conder, William Allen, and George Thompson, with whom he had been united as a most humble but Lord Brougham said, it was most sa- most zealous coadjutor, the glory of that tisfactory to him to hear the determina- day, being as thoroughly persuaded as he tion of his noble Friend, and he would was of his own existence, that but for their suggest, that the despatch ought to be efforts, that day would not have dawned accompanied by an order in council, upon them. He hoped that every event. which the Governor should be enabled to would answer the expectation of his noble use if the spurious Legislatures of the Friend, and he hoped particular care would Crown colonies should refuse to act. be taken, that those expectations of emanNo harm could result from such an cipation in the Mauritius should not be order, and it would save five months frustrated. He knew that something more of the continuance of the existing evil, remained; a jealous, a constantly vigilant and he trusted his noble Friend would eye must be kept over those very selfreceive the suggestion in the spirit in same assemblies, whether of full or partial which it was made. He had only one ob- legislative authority, which existed in our servation to make on the matter, seeing various colonies. For if they found them the satisfactory conclusion which had been under the name of police regulations, a arrived at. His noble Friend had spoken vagrant act, a poor law bill, or of any to-night in a better spirit than when this other of the devices which he knew their question was previously under discussion, ingenuity and pertinacity full well enough because his noble Friend had now the ad- to be apprehensive, they would soon atvantage of the news which had been re- tempt to pass it, as he had already seen, ceived to-day. Before to-night his noble attempts were made by means of a vagFriend had said "You are wrong, and we rant act to perpetuate slavery under anoare sanguine." His noble Friend had ther name, by the help of the magistrate flattered himself that all these results had and the master, whose power had died a been effected by the course of the Govern- natural death; and if, under associations ment, but he maintained, that but for the of men armed with power and influence, interference of this country by the friends their Lordships saw any attempt to revive of emancipation and of liberty, there would under another name and under false prenot to-day have been received such a de-tences that slavery which the law would spatch as had arrived from the governor of Jamaica-a despatch which had been the subject of so much triumph and congratulation on the part of his noble Friend. But it should be remembered, that his noble Friend's despatch was dated the 16th of April, while all the agitation and discussion out of doors and in that House had occurred in the previous months of February and March. These facts were pointed at, both by the Governor of Jamaica and the Governor of Barbadoes in their respective addresses to their Houses of Assembly. The latter admitted, that he was glad to find that the labour of good and wise men who had taken a part in the agitation of the question in this country had not been thrown away. He gave honour to those men who had been the objects of calumny which they regarded not, of suspicion which they de

not suffer to exist under as odious and disgusting appellation any longer-if any such things were attempted, he should not be wanting in the discharge of his duty to expose the violators by evasion, and therefore the worst, because the fraudulent violators of the law. Had not their Lordships seen the circular of the Messrs. Huson, who had held themselves forth to the public as accomplished man-merchants, and who had bragged that in two years they could furnish to the Mauritius 5,000 Hill Coolies at 10l. a-head, including passage-money, provision, water, and all other stores, and an advance of six months' wages and clothing, those wages being five rupees, or about 10s. a-month, while the wages of a day-labourer in that country was, instead of 3d. or 4d. a-day, from 3s. to 4s. a-day? Those poor and ignorant creatures the Hill Coolies were smuggled away under

the idea that the Mauritius to which they were going, was a village belonging to the East-India Company, and this was done at the very time, be it marked, that the apprenticeship system was abolished, or about to be abolished. He hoped, that before this session of Parliament closed an entire prohibition of the traffic in Hill Coolies would be passed. He had seen an account of a vessel having carried over 150 Hill Coolies, and, as a brag, it was said that only 10 died in the vessel during the voyage of four months-that was to say, a mortality of 1 in 15, which was a most hideous and frightful mortality, and an additional reason, if any were wanting, why that abominable traffic should be stopped.

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Lord Wharncliffe said, he could not but think, that this bill, like some of the reforms proposed in the institutions of this country, went far beyond the necessity of the case. Another objection he had to the bill was, that it began at the wrong end, for before they came to deal with the matters affected by this bill, they ought to endeavour to make the income of every clergyman, sufficient to enable him to live in a respectable manner. In many parts of the north, and particularly in the manufacturing districts, many of the livings were so starved, that it would be impossi

Lord Glenelg denied, that he had said anything to detract in any way from the merits of the persons engaged in advocating the cause alluded to by his noble Friend. He did not intend to arrogate to the Go-ble to get clergymen to undertake the vernment more credit than he really thought that it deserved for the course they had taken on this subject; he would not, however, dwell on it, He believed, that all would agree in the policy that in all the colonies all the non-predials should be under one system, and that as nearly as possible the apprenticeship system should terminate at the same period. With respect to the letters which he had sent out to the West Indies on the subject of terminating the period of the apprenticeship of the negroes in the colonies, he begged to inform his noble Friend, that he would find in the printed papers on the table one dated so far back as September Jast. He repeated, that he did not intend

duties of such parishes, without increasing their incomes from some other source. The clause proposed, that a radius of ten miles should be the limitation for the holding of two benefices; he conceived that to be a much worse arrangement than livings in a radius of forty miles, because a clergyman being allowed to hold two in the latter case he would employ a curate to attend to one of them, which perhaps he would not do in the former case. He proposed an amendment confining the operation of the clause, to livings above the yearly value of 1001.

The Archbishop of Canterbury could not concur in the amendment. He did not think, that it would be wise to interfere with the principle upon which the bill was founded, and he trusted, that a remedy the noble Lord had directed their Lordships would be found for the grievance to which attention, without adopting the amend

to deteriorate from the claims of the gentlemen alluded to by the noble Lord, and he was certainly far from denying, that the strong opinion of the people of this country on this subject had had a powerful effect on the conduct of the West Indian Le-ment proposed. The subject had been gislatures.

fully considered by the commissioners, and when their recommendations were Lord Brougham said, that he had one carried into effect, the evil would, he observation to make to their Lordships trusted, be effectually removed. He hoped in reference to the slave trade being car-that the number of cases to which the ried on by Russian ships. He had re-amendment would apply was not great, cently received a letter from a person in and he was unwilling that the principle Havannah, who stated, that on the 13th of the measure should be broken through. of March a Russian vessel had landed 354 He did full justice to the motives of the slaves in that colony, and that four other noble Lord who had proposed the amendvessels of a similar character were daily meat, and from his respects for those expected to arrive. He merely mentioned motives he regretted he was obliged to this to show the extent to which this oppose it.

Amendment negatived without a divi- | alteration in the law, unless that altera

sion.

Lord Portman then moved, that the words "situate within the distance of ten statute miles from" be omitted, and the words "contiguous to" inserted in their place. By that amendment they would arrive at the nearest possible point to a final declaration, that no pluralities should exist at all, and render the principle of the bill clear and intelligible. It was perhaps impossible to effect the entire abolition of pluralities at present, but if the amendment he had proposed were adopted, they would arrive at the nearest point to an entire abolition, and prevent the holding of benefices in plurality in all cases except those where the incumbent would be able to give to both parishes his personal superintendence. He considered the point to which he had called their attention of so much importance, that he should take the sense of the House upon it.

The Archbishop of Canterbury said, that the clause on which the amendment had been moved, had been agreed to after mature deliberation-first by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, and then by the assembled Bishops, and there was no difference of opinion on the subject. It was agreed, that in framing the clause, they had adopted the just medium between the two extremes, and taken a fair position between those who contended for the abolition of plurality and those who entertained a directly opposite opinion. He considered that the amendment would operate injuriously, and that it would have the effect of reducing the number of curates so much, that young men would be admitted at once to the care of large parishes which required an experienced pastor. He admitted, that pluralities did require restriction; but he believed the majority of those who were best qualified to give a sound opinion on the subject, were of opinion that the restriction proposed by the bill went too far. He could not consent to the amendment of the noble Lord.

Lord Wynford considered, that there should be no alteration in the law on this subject, unless to put an end entirely to pluralities. The most rev. prelate had admitted, that the bill would not put an end to pluralities, and the measure, therefore, was framed on no definite or intelligible principle, for no person could possibly understand why there should be any

tion proceeded upon the principle contained in the amendment which had been moved by the noble Lord. He would submit to their Lordships, that the only intelligible principle on which to found a measure for restraining the holding of benefices in plurality was, to prevent the holding of two livings by any one individual, unless when the parishes were contiguous.

The Earl of Harrowby was understood to say, that he agreed with those who thought, that the bill was founded on no intelligible or definite principle. He considered the abolition of pluralities desirable, but that could only be effected by a new distribution of Church property, or by the State furnishing a sum sufficient to make the small livings adequate to support a resident clergyman. He advised their Lordships to adopt the bill, which had been twice before the Legislature, and had now come up from the other House as an experimental measure.

The Bishop of Lincoln said, that the effect of the clause as it stood would be to diminish the number of pluralities by onehalf. He concurred in the suggestion as to the propriety of taking the bill as an experimental measure.

The Bishop of Salisbury objected to the amendment, under which, he said, two livings might be held together, where, though the livings were contiguous, the distance between church and church would be greater than it could be, if the clause as it stood were adopted.

The Bishop of Glocester supported the original clause. If it passed, all but thirty" of the present pluralities in the see of Glocester would be illegalised, and to those thirty no material objection could be made.

Lord Hatherton thought the bill objectionable on account of the extent to which it appeared to sanction the principle of pluralities, and supported the amendment," because it would tend to establish a wholesome system of superintendance on the part of the incumbent over his flock.

The Committee divided on the amend-' ment-Contents 9; Not Contents 50; Majority 41.

Clause agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to. And the House resumed.

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