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from the magistrates, and from the clergy; but the families of the labourers, and farmers, and others, were amongst the complainants. So strong was his impression as to the effect of the beer shops, that he had strictly forbidden any man to set up such an establishment on his estate.

moral and physical condition of the people. The whole case, however, as it stood at present, rested on mere allegation that crime had increased since the new beer act had come into operation. Now this was a matter which ought not to depend on individual opinion, but upon facts; and he was prepared to show from authentic documents that, so far from having increased, crime-he meant that species of crime which was said to result from the beer-shops had materially diminished within the last three years, especially in the counties of Middlesex and Surrey, where not only the population, but wealth had increased, and the inducement to crime also. No doubt they had in these counties a better description of police than formerly, and likewise a more prompt and speedy gaol delivery; but as a commission had issued to inquire into the state of the rural police he thought they ought to wait until the report of that commission was presented to the House, before they took any step in this important matter. No doubt that report would be laid on the table of the House early next session, and then it would be time enough for them to

Mr. Warburton saw no doubt, looking at the source from which the invitation to petition came, there would next Session be, as the noble Lord had said there should be, a very large number of petitions sent to Parliament against the beer shops. Ever since the act passed authorising these establishments, they had been exceedingly unpopular with the magistrates and the clergy. He thought if they had a committee to inquire respecting the conduct of the beer shops, they ought to have a committee of the labouring classess to inquire into the effect of the houses of entertainment generally. No doubt their report would be, that at clubs and such places there was much drinking of champagne and other wines, that people spent time there which they had much better spend elsewhere, that there was not a little gambling, &c. He did not deny the necessity of police regu-determine as to the course they ought to lations, but let them apply equally. The last committee appointed recommended certain regulations respecting the closing of the beer shops, but that committee said, those regulations ought also to be enforced against the licensed victualling houses. The report of the committee had remained a dead letter. So much for the impartiality which a certain party was disposed to deal out.

Mr. Darby said, there was scarcely a respectable labourer in the country that did not set his face against the beer-shops. He denied, that the new beer-shop system was either a comfort or an advantage to the poor. On the contrary, his belief was that it tended only to demoralize the lower classes, and he, for one, felt much obliged to the noble Lord for having brought the subject forward. When they found that, instead of doing good, it only produced evil, he thought the best thing they could do would be to get rid of it altogether as a nuisance, which ought to be discontinued as speedily as possible.

Mr. Hawes was perfectly willing to admit, that the motive which actuated the noble Lord was a good one: that the only object which the noble Lord had in view was the amelioration of both the

pursue. The hon. Member read a calculation which had been officially made as to the state of crime during the last three or four years, and from this document it appeared that although forgery and some other crimes had increased within that period, there had been a very considerable diminution of those crimes which were said to be engendered in beer-shops. On this evidence he did not hesitate to say, that they ought to arrive at any conclusion ra ther than that of requiring the repeal of the act under which the beer-shops had been established. He was well aware that there were persons who sought its repeal from mercenary motives, because it deprived them of advantages which they enjoyed under the old licensing system; but at all events the present complaint came with rather a bad grace from the hon. Gentleman opposite, who resisted every effort that was made to have the people properly educated. He did not look to the repeal of the new Beer-law Act, or any other measure of the kind, for the moral improvement of the people; but he looked for it in the diffusion of knowledge, and that extension of the suffrage which would oblige the upper classes to identify their own interests with the welfare of

the poorer classes of the community. He thought that before the noble Lord came forward with any measure on the subject he was bound to show, that he had made out his case, and that, in point of fact, the crime which he attributed to the beershops had resulted from them.

Mr. Slaney said, it was his misfortune very often to disagree with the opinions on both sides of the House. The hon. Member for Lambeth denied, that there had been any increase of crime, but in this statement the hon. Gentleman was clearly mistaken. Crime had increased fearfully throughout the country, and it was, therefore, the duty of that House to institute inquiry as to the cause, and how the evil could be best remedied. He admitted, however, that the cure for the evil would not be obtained by a return to monopoly in the article of beer. It was to be remembered, that beer-houses were very different in towns from what they were in the country. In London, for instance, they heard the effect of beer-shops was by means of competition to reduce the price of beer to a moderate sum, while, in the country, beer-shops were established in obscure places, and were on that ground very objectionable. It was his opinion that they ought to require a criterion of some property before a beer-shop could be established. It was his opinion, that there ought to be some improvement in the mode of granting licences to beer-shops. It was plain that the increase of beershops had not prevented an increase in the consumption of spirits. Within twenty years the consumption of spirits had risen from 9,000,000 of gallons to that of 27,000,000 gallons. He attributed a great deal of the consumption of spirits to the negligence on the part of the police. He thought the police were on this point scandalously negligent in their duty, for any hon. Gentleman going home at two o'clock in the morning could see, that the spirit-shops were open at that hour.

Mr. M. Phillips admitted, that there were just grounds of complaint against the new beer-shop system, and it was his intention next session to move for a committee of inquiry on the whole subject. He was prejudiced in favour of neither one party nor the other, and therefore when the facts were really ascertained he should be prepared to concur in any measure that the House might deem expedient to remedy the existing evil.

Lord Ingestrie said, that the beer-shops in his part of the country had been productive of the worst possible consequences. They were the resort of the ill-disposed, and crimes of all kinds were concocted in them. So far from being hostile to the education of the people he had always done all in his power to promote that object; but, as he could not see what connection there was between education and the beer-shops, he must press upon the House the necessity of adopting some step, and that speedily, for getting rid of the evil, which throwing open the sale of beer indiscriminately had given rise to.

Mr. Wallace said, that if there were no licensed victuallers he was sure there would be no complaint against beer-shops. All they were doing was this, making the beer-shops bad, by giving them a bad character. What they ought to do was to encourage men of the best character to enter into competition in this business. His opinion was, that the people in his country were much better conducted than they were in this; and yet in his country he could produce to them a village in which every other house was a publichouse, and where he was quite sure the people were more sober than they were at Crockford's, or at any club-house or public-house in London.

Mr. Villiers said, the noble Lord, the member for South Staffordshire had said, that a large portion of his constituents, and some of them must also be his (Mr. Villiers's),had given it as their opinion that every crime and every vice committed in that part of the country, was to be attributable to the beer-houses. Now, he must say, he had not received any information of that kind. He was disposed to support the proposition of the hon. Member for Manchester, (Mr. M. Phillips), that no steps should be taken this year, that the inquiry should be postponed until the next, and by that time the House could have petitions or facts upon which to proceed. No allegations had been made in this debate on which the House could place credit-nothing had been brought forward but hearsay evidence. He for one, denied, that the Beer Act had done any mischief. What was the case the very year before the bill passed? Why, the southern counties of England were all but in a state of insurrection, neither life nor property was safe, and that occurred the very year before selling beer to be

consumed on the premises in these houses | no police could by possibility keep them. were allowed. He thought the measure in proper check. This was his opinion, had been productive of good and not of and therefore he should support any proevil; but when the Legislature had neg- position for inquiry, with a view of ascer lected to educate the people, and had taining the real facts, in order that they done everything to demoralise them, was might see what course it was expedient it to be expected, when a restraint was to take. removed, that at first some excess was not to be expected? The act ought to have a fair trial, and if it had been proved, as it had, that crime had diminished since its passing, why was the subject now brought forward? The Beer Act had, at least, had one good effect, it had diminished the evils arising out of the licensing system; but if the act were repealed, would not the old evils again arise? Was there not on the part of magistrates, and those who made them, a desire to invest them again with the power and influence which they had formerly so improperly enjoyed?

Sir J. Guest said, that in his part of the country he knew the new beer-shop system was much condemned, and that an alteration of it was loudly called for, not only by the better classes, but by a great portion of the poor. In one village, that he could mention, there were at least one hundred beer-shops, and their existence had led to every species of disorder and immorality.

Mr. Brotherton fully concurred that the subject ought to be inquired into, as exposing men to temptation was not the best mode of checking evil. There could be no doubt that the new beer-shops had led to intemperance-that intemperance led to poverty-and that poverty led to crime. He must say, that the noble Lord was entitled to the thanks of the country for the attention which he had bestowed on this important subject. He would not undertake to point out what the remedy was that they ought to apply, but still it was his opinion that, as evil existed, it should be removed with as little loss of time as possible. He had no wish to do injustice to those who had invested their property in this trade, but he, at the same time, thought that any system which occasioned inteinperance on the part of the labouring poor, ought to be put an end to at all risks. He was an advocate for free trade, but where the particular article produced demoralization, he fully concurred in the propriety It was well of imposing restrictions. known that many of the beer-shops were kept by disreputable persons-that they were the resort of the ill-disposed, and that

Mr. Aglionby was afraid that the country would think the feelings of that House was in favour of monopoly, and against the wishes of the public at large. He did not think, that they had any evidence before them which would justify a committee of inquiry; but still he was obliged to the noble Lord for moving for returns which under any view of the case would be valuable, inasmuch as they would show whether the evils complained of existed or not. In large towns, where there was a good police, throwing open the trade in beer was attended with no danger what ever, and he doubted whether any was to be apprehended in the remote or rural districts. He thought, that it was a great advantage to the poor to be able to obtain good and wholesome beer at a cheap rate, and therefore, although he agreed that some attention should be paid to the character of the parties keeping beer-shops, he hoped that Government would not deprive the poor of this advantage.

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Mr. Parrott said, that so far from the magistrates of his part of the country finding fault with the New Beer Act, their opinion was, that it had been productive of very great benefit to the poor. the magistrates of his part of the country he could say, that they had no wish to return back to the old licensing system, but, he was at the same time aware, that there were parties who were anxious to have the present law repealed. Instead of paying 4d. or 5d. a pot for beer, it was a great benefit to the labouring poor to be able to obtain it for 1d. or 2d., and, therefore, even if there were some disadvantages in the present system, the advantages greatly preponderated. The only effect which restrictions could have, would be to cause a considerable defalcation in the revenue, and reduce the price of barley; and his opinion was, that it was to the interest of the country at large that there should be a free trade in both cider and beer. While, however, he supported free trade, he was prepared to support any motion for a better system of police.

Mr. Hindley was not favourable to the beer-shop system, because it threw temp

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tation in the way of the young which led | what it had done. So far as our Governto demoralization. He thought, however, ment was concerned, though they took no that the evils complained of might be re-part in encouraging these persons to go medied by an improved police. He was out, he was perfectly ready to admit, that opposed to the old licensing system, and their going out promoted objects which certainly had no wish to return to mono- the Government approved of, and, so far poly. He agreed, however, that the sub-from throwing any censure on their conject ought to be investigated by a Committee of that House. Returns ordered.

duct, they had entitled themselves to the support and attention of Government. Their claims had been left standing for a considerable time; but, for the last two years, the government of Portugal had been in such a state of uncertainty and periodical change, that the irregularity in not disposing of these demands was not so wonderful as it might be considered if the circumstances were different. He could assure his noble Friend, that the British Government had not been indifferent to those claims, and that our Minister at Lisbon had, from time to time, been instructed to afford every assistance, and had frequently been in communication on their behalf with the Portuguese government. He believed he might say, that, without his (our Minister's) interference, the commission now in force would not have been established. The present commission was appointed in December last. The Portuguese who belonged to it were unobjectionable, and it also comprised General Stubbs, an officer whose high character was a guarantee that his influence would be used for the proper consideration of these claims. He could not say, that he had any recent accounts of their proceedings. At the same time he could undertake to say, that they had not made the progress in the investigation which the claimants had a right to expect; and he was aware that the question

PORTUGUESE AUXILIARY LEGION.] Viscount Sandon said, that the motion with which he meant to conclude was one to which he did not think, that the noble Lord (Palmerston) would object. It was for a copy of a letter, signed by Sir John Milley Doyle, and other officers of the auxiliary legion, complaining of the commission which had been appointed to investigate their claims. This body of men were induced to go out to Portugal, not with the direct encouragement of the Government, nor as in the case of Spain, by the repeal of an order in council; but it was notorious, that the expedition took place with the knowledge of the Government, and without any discountenance on their part. The service which they had rendered to the cause of Donna Maria was never disputed, the establishment of the present government of Portugal being mainly owing to their defence of Oporto, and their gallant exploits in other parts of Portugal. Their reward had been the greatest suffering and distress. For four years their claims had been kept in abeyance; commission after commission had been appointed, but with no satisfactory result to those ill-used persons. Even the present commission, which was of a more respectable character than those for-pending before it was, whether a certain merly appointed, must decide in a manner unfavourable to the claimants, if they wished their decision to be final; for, otherwise, the government of Portugal declared their intention of referring the question to another tribunal. The noble Lord concluded by moving for a copy of a letter to which he had adverted.

Viscount Palmerston was perfectly ready to state his concurrence in the opinion that this body of men had rendered very important service, and were entitled to the liberal consideration of the Portuguese government, because it was unquestionable that, if they had not defended Oporto, n all probability the result of the siege would have turned out differently from VOL. XLIV. Third {Series

contract, on the observance of which the claimants insisted, was binding or not. He could assure his noble Friend, that he should not fail to pursue the matter, and that whatever influence the Government possessed, should be put in force to bring about a just settlement of these claims, and as early a settlement as might be consistent with the circumstances of the Portuguese government.

Motion agreed to.

STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES (IRE LAND).] Sir Robert Bateson did not wish, at so late an hour, to enter into a full discussion of this subject, but, in moving for the return of which he had F

given notice, he must say, that he thought there had been a strong disposition of late years, on the part of the Irish Government, to run down the unpaid magistrates of the country, and to establish stipendiary and paid magistrates in their place. Hitherto the magistrates had been selected from amongst the resident gentry, and he wished to know why those powers should now be taken out of their hands. He complained that, in many parts of the north of Ireland, stipendiary magistrates had been introduced where there was no occasion for them, and that, in several places, tumult and constant broils had been the consequence. The conduct of the Irish Government had, in this respect, been marked by great partiality, as was also the course they had adopted in putting down and oppressing the Protestants in that part of the kingdom to which he had before referred. Towards the Protestants and Orangemen of Ireland, the Government had acted in a most irritating and insulting manner; but he hoped, that those persons would soon show their enemies that they were not the lawless set they were described to be. He complained also of the partiality which had been shown in the last revision of the magistracy, and of the lord-lieutenants of counties not having been properly consulted. It was true, that they had been consulted, but it had been done so hastily as not to allow them time to give a proper opinion. Now the act, which was called the Lordlieutenants' Act, had been extended to Ireland by Earl Grey, for the express purpose of the lord-lieutenants being enabled to recommend to the Lord Chancellor, persons whom they considered fit to be appointed magistrates; but that act had, in many instances, been unattended to. He did not attribute this to the noble Marquess who was now at the head of the Irish Government, but he had thought that it had been occasioned by a power greater even than that of the Lord-lieutenant. That, however, had been denied, and he must, therefore, consider it to have been produced by the Jesuits, who were not only numerous in Ireland, but also in England. The hon. Member moved for a return of all the stipendiary magistrates in Ireland, specifying their names, salaries, and emoluments, the date of their appointment, their residence, and the districts under their charge, and for what counties they hold commissions of peace.

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Viscount Morpeth would not offer the slightest opposition to the motion of the hon. Member. There was nothing in the system of the Government of Ireland which required concealment, and he had, therefore, no objection to produce the accounts which had been moved for. He would just explain that, as to the revision. of the magistrates having been made hastily, it had entirely arisen from the necessity of the commissions being issued by a certain day, and that with respect to consulting the Lord-lieutenant, he held, that the right of appointing persons to the magistracy rested exclusively with the Lord Chancellor.

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OUDE.] Mr. Winthrop Praed, in rising to make the motion of which he had given notice for papers respecting the Government of Oude, wished to ask the right hon. Baronet opposite two questions connected with it. It was, he believed, an acknowledged fact, that on the death of the late King of Oude, the British resident, at Lucknow, had interfered with an armed force to place the third son of the deceased King on the throne; and that that interference had caused the loss of a thousand lives. The questions which he wished to put to the right hon. Baronet were, first, whether the steps which had been taken by the British resident at Lucknow, or by the East-India Company, with respect to the succession to the throne of Oude, had any connection with the payment of the debts due by the government of Oude to the Company; and, secondly, whether the despatches which had been sent to Lord William Bentinck, authorising him to take possession of the territory of Oude, had any connection with the steps which had been taken with respect to the succession to the throne of Oude? The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for a number of papers connected with the succession of the government of Oude.

Sir John Hobhouse said, that he had no objection to give the best answers that he could, to both the hon. Gentleman's questions; and he hoped, that those answers would prove satisfactory. To the production of the papers, also, with some slight alterations, he had no objection; and when they were produced, the hon. Gentleman and the House would be as well able as he was, to form a competent opinion of the conduct, which had been

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