1681. Anno 32Car.11. confider the prefent State of the Kingdom, as well as the Condition of Chriftendom, in fuch a Manner as may enable ⚫him to preferve Tangier, and fecure his Alliances abroad, and the Peace and Settlement at home." Speeches thereon. H. B. Mr. Speaker, Sir, his Majefty is pleafed to fay in his Mellage, that he is confirmed in his Opinion against the Exclufion-bill, by the Judgment of the Houfe of Lords; and perhaps Bofcaw that he is forry to fee that this Houfe hath fuch an Opinion of en, it appearing it, as to conclude all other Ways and Means infufficient. by the Journals He is alfo pleafed to fay, that we have no Reason to doubt that Day in the his Concurrence, in any other Means that fhall tend to the that he was House. Prefervation of the Proteftant Religion, when prefented to him in a parliamentary Way, which I do not doubt but he will comply with, whenever he thall be pleafed to follow the Dictates of his own Judgment: But fo long as there are fo many Perfons about him, who have publickly declared for the Duke's Intereft, we have good reafon to doubt, that we hall hardly obtain any thing for the Security of the Protef rant Religion. We well know how many in the Houfe of Lords came to their Honours, and by whofe Intereft; and it as not iftrange, that thofe that are as Servants fhould obey their Mafter; but it is ftrange, that thofe who have prevailed with the King to reject this Bill, if Proteftants fhould be so unconcerned in the Welfare of the Proteftant Religion, as not to offer what Expedients they have, to fecure it any other way; efpecially feeing the laft Parliament, as well as this, found it a Task too hard for them. But to reject the Bill which we propofe, and to offer no other to ferve instead thereof, though they have had two Years Time for Confideration, is to me plain Demonftration, that nothing must be had against Popery. That thefe Difficulties fhould be put upon us, and our Dangers thus prolonged in favour of the Duke, after fuch full Evidence that the Plot centers all in him, and that the Original of our Miferies is from him, when the immediate Safety of the King, and our Lives and Religion is concerned on the other hand, is a plain Difcovery of the great Power of the Popish intereft, and of the low Ebb of the Proteftants, and that it is impoffible that any thing can be granted us in favour of the Proteftant Religion, as long as thofe that are fo much for the Duke's Intereft, are about the King. And therefore seeing we are not like to do any thing by Bill, that thofe that fent us here may fee we have done what we can, let us make fuch Votes as may be ferviceable to our Country, viz. 1. That neither the King's Perfon nor Proteftant Religion, can be fecured any way without the Exclufion-Bill. 2. That we can give no Money, without endangering the King's Perfon and Proteftant Religon, until we Lave 1681. have that Bill. And, 3. That feeing Supplies for all pub- Anno 32Car.II. lic Money ought to come from this Houfe, there being no other way to fupply the King with the Love of his People, as well as with Money, let us pafs a Vote to prevent Anticipations on the Revenue and other Supplies. And becaufe I believe Things are come to a Point, and that there are thofe that have advised the Diffolution of this Parliament, and the Nation can never be happy as long as we have fuch Counfellors, let us, while we may, pafs our Cenfures on fuch Perfons; for only God knows when we fhall be permitted to fit here again." Mr. Speaker, Sir, the truth is, we committed a great R. Montagu. Error in the Beginning of this Seffion; when we went about to look into the Popish Plot, we went into the Tower, whereas we should have gone to the Court; for it is plain, that the Duke's Friends which are there, do ftill carry on the Plot against the Proteftant Religion, as much as ever the Lord Bellafis, Powis, or any of thofe Lords in the Tower did. And we may reafonably conclude by the little Succefs we have had against Popery this Seffion, that until we can remove that Interest from about the King, we take pains to no purpose. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready to agree in thofe Votes Sir H. Capel. that were moved: For it appears plain to me, that we are not like to have any Laws against Popery: for the truth is, the Popish Intereft is too ftrong for us. If there were any intent that we should have the Proteftant Religion fecured any other way, it is ftrange that thofe who advife the King to oppofe our way, fhould not at the fame time prevail with him to propofe his. I am afraid that this Advice proceeds from thofe that think the King or Kingdom are not in danger of Popery, because they are of opinion, that Popery cannot hurt the King nor Kingdom; for otherwife they might plainly fee it is like to have a Conteft with us: And that it would be convenient it should be prevented, and be induced thereby to offer fome Expedient, if there be any. And as we may conclude ourselves an unhappy People upon thefe Accounts, fo alfo in that the Houfe of Lords, after they had spent fo much time about Expedients, and found them infufficient, fhould afterwards reject this Bill, without any farther Care how to preferve the Proteftant Religion; at leaft, not by fending any thing to this Houfe, though we have heard from them of Mr. Seymour's Articles, and fome trivial Matters. And affo in that fome worthy Members, who have the Honour to ferve in great Places about his Majesty, and have oppofed this Bill, feeing this Houfe in this great Dilemma, fhould not offer to do the Nation and this Houfe that Kindness as to propose them. If there be any TOME II. M fuch Anno 32Car.II. fuch worthy Member that has any fuch Expedient, I hope he will stand up, and then I will presently fit down. 1681. After a little paufe, and no body offering to stand up; "The truth is, Sir, every Day doth more and more difcover our Danger, and demonftrate, that this of Expedients is put upon us, in hopes that we should have offered at fome Bill; of which Advantage might be taken, to reprefent us as Perfons not well affected to the Government, that so, if poffible, even the People, as well as the King, might be brought out of Love with Parliaments. I do remember, that after the great Endeavours which fome Minifters of State had ufed to bribe the late long Parliament, and had come fo near to Perfection, as that the Nation was in a manner saved but by two or three Votes, this Diffolution was much admired at; and it was moft Men's Business to cast about to find out the reason of it: Amongst other things it was concluded, That if the Popish Interest had any hand in it (as believed) that it was out of hopes, that they fhould thereby have an opportunity to make the King out of love with all Parliaments, and fo occafion fome Difference between him and his People. The little Succefs which the laft Parliament had, the Improbability of this, and the Stumbling-blocks that are laid for the next, make me afraid that the long Parliament was diffolved for this reason: I have heard that the Jefuits have at this time a great Stroke in the Management of all the Affairs of Europe, and that it is by their Advice and Affiftance, that the King of France goeth on fo triumphantly, because they defign to make him Univerfal Monarch, and in order thereto are true to him, though falfe to all the World befides. How far we have contributed already to the King of France his Greatnefs, and how this breaking off Parliaments, and keeping this Nation in this unfettled Condition, may conduce to his taking of Flanders and Holland, and his other Designs, all here may judge: And how it agrees with the Report of the Jefuits having the Management of all the Affairs of Europe: And how this can be prevented, without the Exclufion-Bill, is a Paradox to me. For I do ftill conclude, that fo long as there is a Popish Succeffor, there will be a Popish Intereft; and that as long as there is a Popish Intereft, and Fears of a Popish King, the Nation will be divided, and there will be conftant Fears and Jealoufies, not only here at home, but with our Allies abroad; which will fruftrate all Endeavours to oppose the French Designs, becaufe there can be no Confidence between the King and his People. And this makes me conclude, we are under great Difficulties; if we give Money,we have reafon to fear it may be employed to our Destruction; if we do not, if Flanders or Holland should be loft, great Endeavours will be used to lay it at our Doors, though though we have given fuch hearty Affurances to his Majesty, Anno 32 Car.II. of our Readiness to fupply him with Money for the Support of it. And how we fhall extricate ourselves out of these Difficulties, I know not. Sir, I have troubled you the longer, and with the more Earneftness, because I am doubtful whether I may ever have another opportunity to speak in this Place. Things are fo out of order, and fuch prevalent Endeavours are used to unfettle them the more, that I am afraid, not only of our Religion, but of the very Government and being of the Englih Nation; For if these things fhould occafion Blood, while the French King is fo powerful, he may eafily have the cafting Voice; and without that, only God knows what may be the End of fuch Confufions as fome Men endeavour to occafion. All Projects of fettling the Affairs of this Nation without Parliaments, have hitherto proved unfuccefsful, and been attended with ill Confequences. I have a great deal of reafon to be fenfible of the Miseries of 41, and therefore am forry to fee fuch Diffolutions of Parliaments without Succefs. I am afraid there are Projectors again a-foot, that are for altering the Government, as to the Ufe of Parlia ments: I judge fo by their Proceedings, because I am of opinion, that Popery muft deftroy the Ufe of Parliaments, before it can be fettled in this Nation. Seeing we are not like to have any Act pass this Seffion that may do the Nation any good, I think you have been well moved to do what fervice you can by your Votes.' Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not only very ftrange, but, if I L. H. be not miftaken, contrary to the cuftom of Parliaments, that after the Lords have paffed a Negative upon a Bill, we fhould ftill prefs for it, and declare ourselves refolved not to be fatisfied without it, though it be well known that the King doth alfo intend to pafs his Negative upon it; and that it cannot be had this Seffion, unless his Majefty be pleased to prorogue the Houfe, of purpose to give an opportunity to go on with it again, which is very unlikely, if the Contents of his Speeches and Meffages be confidered, feeing the Lords have confirmed him in his Opinion of it. And therefore I fhould think it were much better to follow his Majefty's Directions in his Meffage, and to try fome other way, which would be a great Confirmation of our Readiness to obey his Majefty, in following his Advice, which, I believe, is the best way to prevent any farther Difagreement, that so this Parliament may have a happy Conclufion.' Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am fully perfuaded, that we cannot Ld. C. be fecure neither of our Religion nor Peace and Quietness, without this Bill; yet feeing we are not like to have it at this time, I am for going on with those other Bills that are afoot, M.2 that 1681. Anno 32 Car.II. that we may try if we can get them. Seeing we cannot do 1681. all the good we would, let us endeavour to do all the good we can. But I am ready to agree in the Vote that was propofed, That it is the opinion of this Houfe, that neither the King's Perfon, nor Proteftant Religion can be fecured any other way, provided it be not intended to bind the Houfe from trying what may be done by other Laws, left Advantage fhould be taken thereof to break this Parliament, which I tremble to think of, because it will be attended with a great Ruin to our Affairs both abroad and at home.' Sir R. Markham. Sir William Mr. Speaker, Sir, being the Houfe is inclinable to hear of Expedients, I will crave leave to offer you one. In cafe the Duke fhould outlive the King, I think, if by an Act of Parliament, the Prince of Orange were appointed to administer the Government jointly with him, with fuch Powers and Limitations as might be thought convenient upon a ferious Debate, it might give great Satisfaction, and probably fecure the Proteftant Religion." Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have had feveral Propofitions made you, and the way to come to fome fpeedy Refolution, is not to debate too many together, but to keep clofe to that to which most have fpoken; which, if I be not mistaken, is that which relates to the Duke's Bill, which fome have oppofed, because of the Difficulties arifing from the Bill, and would rather have you go into a Committee, and treat of Expedients. But I think it below the Gravity of the House to be put out of their Method, unless fome Expedients were propofed. But notwithstanding all the Provocations that have been given, we cannot hear of any Expedients, only one, which hardly deferves any farther Confideration in a Committee; because crowned Heads or Lovers, do not willingly allow of Rivals, but will be uneafy till they be rid of them. And I am afraid all other Expedients will be liable to as ftrong Objections; and that therefore it is that they are not propofed, though they have been fo often difcourfed of If Perfon would offer any, that had any appearance of any giving Satisfaction, I fhould be ready to give my Voice for going into a Committee to debate them. But I know nor why the Houfe fhould lofe that time, without fome Expedient be firft offered; and if there could be any Expedients found out, which were likely, really and effectually to prejudice the Duke's Intereft, why fhould not the fame Argument arise against them, as against the Exclufion Bill? Why would not any fuch Bill be alfo against natural Juftice, the Oath of Allegiance, be a fevere Condemnation, and not good in Law, but liable to occafion a Civil War? For I am not apt to think this great Contest is all about an empty Name; and if not, then the fame Arguments will hold a |