-

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down. But why an Army? -If there must be an Army Anno 33 Car. II. for your Bill, there will be four Armies requifite to maintain the Expedient.-A Protector has been proposed, not like that of E. 6. who was little more than the now Lord Prefident of the Council-But certainly they who propofed the Expedient, would have by it the fame Power of letting in the Duke, as of keeping him out. Therefore I move to lay afide this Confideration, and take up the Bill as has been moved for.'

'I think it is fit we should prefent Reasons to the King L. Gower. for paffing this Bill of excluding the Duke, &c. I do think that the Administration of the Government has been in fuch Hands fince the King came in, that tho' the Mini fters have been changed, yet the fame Principles remain to this day, though fome have been removed.

-The break

ing_of the Triple League, the taking of the Dutch Smyrna-Fleet, &c. The King of France makesWar for his Glory, and we for nothing but to get Riches to make the King abfolute. Such a Violation was done upon the Rights of the People as has been done.'- He was called down to

Order

A Question fo extreamly well spoken unto, to be inter- E. Vaughan, rupted with any angry Question, is not very decent at this time; what is fpoken of, is Matter to be enquired into another time, though the Gentleman does it with a worthy Intent. If the Gentleman have any thing else to propofe, pray hear him.'

"I intended to move you for Reasons to induce the King L. Gower goes to pass this Bill. The strange and difhonourable Retrench- on. ments made in the King's Family.- He is furrounded

by the Duke's Creatures. 'Tis not fafe for the King to part with any one Minifter, unless he part with all; and when thefe Men have got a Bank of Money for a Popish Succeffor, then will be the time to take away the King'

This we are upon is a Matter of great weight and dif- Sir F. Winficulty. Let any Man that can, maintain this Expedient, or nington. give you a new one."

I have heard with Patience this Expedient, which has Sir T. M. (perbeen well offered, and I believe miftaken by the Gentle- haps Mompef man who answered it. I muft fay this, your Queftion and your Bufinefs is Religion, and I have given as good Proof of my Zeal for the Proteftant Religion this twenty Years as any Man has; and I have been for this Bill of excluding the Duke, &c. I am of Opinion something must be done to fecure Religion. For the Point of Law mentioned, if the Law be fuch, That Dominion must run with the Name of King, that fingle Reafon is to carry the Debate. But if I anfwer not that, I am at an end. But fure thofe Words

that

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Anno 33 Car.II. that can difinherit a King, may make this Expedient Law. I would not rife now, if I thought the Bill to exclude the Duke, &. could pafs; my Grounds are but Conjectures. The laft Parliament, I did think this Bill would pafs without greafing the Wheels. The Condition of England is thus: We do need one another, both King and People,' and we have need to make use of a Parliament to affift one another, to relieve us in the Difficulties we are in. If the Duke fhould be King, he will need a Parliament, and fo will the People. In order to this, if ano her Expedient can be found out as like this, though not the fame, which no Objection of Law could deftroy, he would do the King and Kingdom great Service and Advantage who would produce it. In this Neceffity we are like two great Armies encamped upon two Hills, and neither dare remove, not for want of Valour, but from their Reafon: He that has the laft Loaf ftays longeft, Neceffity compels the other to decamp. At laft it must be one fide or other, or elfe England will have the worst of it. But if none will venture to clear the Matter in point of Law, I am answered. If any could alter that Bill, that it fhould not be the fame we have had twice before, I fhould like it. I like this Expedient offered you, for 'tis a Bill of Exclufion, and fo ftrong a one, that the Duke may chufe the first rather. I am for the Nail that will drive to do our Business. If Gentlemen have other Thoughts, pray fo contrive it, that we have one Bill or

W. Harbord.

Sir F. Win mington.

t'other.'

• All the Expedients I have heard yet, are like a Cucumber, when you have well drefs'd it, throw it away. Thefe Gentlemen tell you, they will bring in a Bill of Excluding the Duke from the Regency, &c. This Propofition is either honest or not; if it be honest and without Design, then all the Difpute betwixt the King and Us, will be, Whether the Duke fhall have a Title to the Crown. But I hope the King will rather gratify the Nation than the Duke. If this be not honeft, and People about the King circumvent him, they will find Means from Day to Day to divert him. Why was England fo fond of Calais, but to have fome Footftep into France? And fo this Bill, let the Bill pafs, and all thofe Gentlemen who have Dependency upon the Duke, if he come to the Crown, will change Matters.

A worthy Member not being fatisfied with Arguments of Law against the Expedient, that calls me up, as in my Profeffion. The Question about this Bill of Exclufion, that 'tis lawful in Confcience, no Man will oppofe: The great Oppofers of it in the Lords Houfe, agreed it lawful when they threw it out. Not Jure Divino unlawful concurrentibus iis qui concurrere debent. Some Gentlemen told you,

2

their

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their Country gave them Inftructions to prefs this Bill of Anno 33 Car. II. Exclufion, &c. Sir T. Littleton faid, it was dangerous to take Inftructions from the Country; but I fay, 'tis much more to take it from Court. Parliaments formerly upon any extraordinary Matter, ftaid, and fent their Members to confult with thofe who fent them. I am not fubjugated (when I am here) to what the Country does propofe. I am as much against a Republic as he that fears it; but I am a Proteftant. I fay, I know Sir T. Littleton to be of that Experience and Reason, that if he go away fatisfied in this Matter, he will do all the good he can in the Poft he is in. But to keep clofe to this Queftion; it being allowed by Law, That an Exclusion of the Duke from the Crown may be; the next Thing is to confider the Expedient of the Regency propofed. The fame Authority that can make a Defcent of the Crown, may modify it. He argued to fhew that the Regency would make the Duke infignificant in the Adminiftration of the Government. Now the Queftion is, which is the moft practicable. We Lawyers are apteft to go on the strongest side, and to call every thing Prerogative. I'll put you a Cafe; .... being in King James's time, the Sheriff of there was an exception in his Commiffion, that he should not keep the County-Court of but fhould have all other Exercifes of his Office. But the Judges refolved he was Sheriff to all Intents and Purposes, and that he could not be hindred keeping the County Court. An Act of Parliament againft common Senfe is void. To make a Man King, and not fuffer him to exercife Kingly Power, is a Contradiction. Some Claufes formerly in Acts of Parliament, were flattering Claufes to fatisfy the People, and not let them have the thing. Should this of the Expedient be an Act, 'tis Nonfenfe, and may be faid hereafter, the Houfe of Commons were outwitted. I owe the Duke Obedience if he be King; but if he be King, and have no Power to govern, he is the King and no King. I have urged this to fhew, that this is no Expedient, it blears only Peoples Eyes, and is no folid Security. To fay the Duke values his Estate, which he may forfeit, &c. He loves a Crown too very well, therefore you are not to arm your felf in Point of Conscience, but in Point of Reafon. The last Parliament I did fee diffolv'd, by the Management of the Papifts and the Minifters; fo that without this Bill of Exclufion, our Ruin is irresistible. If the Duke come to the Crown, he brings with his Religion Merum Imperium, and that made me fond of the Bill; but if by Law the Duke never was King, there is no Cafe of Confcience lies upon us in his Exclufion. I will only make this Obfervation of the King's Speech, in relation to this Question-And if it be practicable, the rid

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Anno 33 Car.II. ding of ourselves quite of that Party, &c. and not to lay fo much weight upon one Expedient, as to determine all others, are ineffectual. The two main points (ir feems) the King doubts himself, and all this, delivered by the King in great Wifdom, is clipt off to this Expedient of the Regency. You fee now we come to Expedients; the Minifters have had two Parliaments to confider it, and now we are come to this Expedient of the Regency. I find no fecurity in Law by this Expedient; you take away nothing by this Expedient, and therefore I hope the Bill of Exclufion will pafs. I hope that Reason, and not great Offices, will take Men off from their nemine contradicente. I fpeak this as if I were a dying man, and humbly move for the Bill, &c."

H. Booth.

Sir T. M.

• I have it in command from my Country, That they apprehend no Expedient to fecure us from Popery, but that the Remedy will be worfe than the Difeafe, unless this Bill. I have heard as yet no Reafon given against it. But there is an aliquid latet. If the Duke be not let afide, I am fure the Government will be; and therefore I am for the Bill of Exclufion, &c.

I know not how far Sir Francis Winnington's Argument (perhaps Mom- may be preft, what Bill foever we may have. Pray let us peffon.) have the Law on our fides, that if the King fhould die, we may know whither we are to go. I think the King's Speech is penned as it ought to be penned; and fhould a King fpeak pofitively to what Laws he would have, we are an Irish Parliament, and not an English; but the King's Words are tender Words. The thing lies fairly before you, if any Expedient can be thought of, not to deftroy the Mónarchy; and if the next prefented be not the best, nor to refuse the next.'

E. Vaughan.

•You have had an Expedient offered you of a Regency, &c. inftead of the Bill of Exclufion, &c. Pray confider what this Regency is. 'Tis the whole Office of a King, to appoint Judges call Parliaments, &c. This Power they would take away from the Duke. But if by Law they will referve the name of King to the Duke, 'tis to bring a War upon us, and to bring the Duke in by force. This Regency must be fupported by War, as well as the Bill of Exclufion. By the 13 Eliz. the Crown is not alienable by the King, but may be alienated by King, Lords, and Commons. And when that Statute was made, no Succeffor was named, to keep King James in awe; which I conceive was the Reafon why none was named in the last Bill of Exclufion. Though we have been frighted out from that Bill by Prorogations and Diffolutions, yet 'twill not frighten them whofe Keasons go along with it. And I am for that Bill, because all men are for it, and have fent up the fame Parliament again that paft it. But if you lead people into uncertainties

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uncertainties in the Government (as this Project of Regency Anno 33 Car.II. undoubtedly will do) the Court and the Country will be of a mind to lay afide Parliaments, because they are ufelets.'

Peoples Eyes are now enlighted, and all the World Sir H. Capel. are an informed People. The Papifts care not who is King, if he be a Papift.' And 'fo he proceeded, much to the fame purpofe as feveral Speeches in the last Parliament.

I would not have spoken fo much out of Duty to my Col. G. Leggy Master, but for the Duty I owe to my Country. I owe a new Obligation to the King, for I am the Duke's Servant from the King. My Father was a Servant to the late King and this; and I have my Protection under him. I was bred in England, and for his Service at Sea. I know my own weakness, not being bred to the Law; but by inquiry I find, that the Doctrine of difpofing a Kingdom from the Right Heir is damnable; and 'tis the Doctrine of the Church of Rome. I have heard, that in the 24 E. 3. the King demanded Advice of the Parliament, in matters relating to the Crown. The Anfwer was by the whole Parliament, they could not advif: in any thing relating to the Crown, nor of Difinheriting him to whom they were fworn. The Fundamental and Common Law of England has made the Duke Heir to the Crown, if the King have no Sons. The Title of Hen. 4. was confirmed by Parliament, but he laid his Claim of Defcent from H. 3. and it continued in that Defcent till H. 6. and then the Parliament declared that thofe Acts were not binding, but unjuft; and declared the Oaths of Allegiance to thofe Kings infamous and wicked; and fo the Right Heir came in. H. 8. had Power to difpofe of the Crown, by his laft Will and Teftament, to place and dif place the Crown at his pleafure; yet all his right Heirs came to the Crown, though Jane Gray claimed it by virtue of that Will, and baited her Title with Religion. Queen Elizabeth made a Law, that whoever did maintain, that the Crown could not be difpofed of by Parliament, should be guilty of Treafon, &c. and for ever after of Præmunire. But fince that, there is a Reftitution of King James, which acknowledged him lawfully, rightly, and juffly the next Heir to the Crown, and did befeech the King to accept of their Allegiance to him and his Pofterity, And I think our Ancestors fwore to the King and his Pofterity, as well as we. 'Tis

a

great Happiness to this Nation that both the Lines are united, and that we are rid of the Misfortunes of the Barons Wars. We have had Attempts to turn the Government into a Republic: And who knows but that if you pur by the Right of the Duke, the Revenue of the Crown being much upon the People, but that there may be Attempts to turn the Government into a Republic again? When my Father was

TOME II.

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