don't you let them in the United States generally admitted that the free-trade suppose, if it isn't true, that the policy of policy had inflicted great injury on large this country is going to be reversed. For classes in this country, and that in order if the Protectionists thought that was to be to repair that injury some means should the case, more money would be subscribed, be adopted to modify that policy. He still and still greater efforts would be made by thought, as he had always thought, that them, because they would have the stimu- the best mode of accomplishing that object lus of believing that England had tried free would be the imposition of moderate imtrade and had given it up, because it would port duties on foreign produce, by which not work. If you are not, then, for a re- the foreigner would be compelled to pay a turn to the Corn Laws, say so. I tell you portion of our taxes, and we should create distinctly, that if any of the Members of a revenue by which we should be enabled your Government were to get up and dis- to repeal other duties which press upon avow protection, assigning the reason of its the industry of the country. That was injustice, or at least of the impossibility of his opinion, and he had no hesitation in it, you would be giving the greatest satis- telling the hon. Member for Manchester faction to large numbers of Conservatives that he confidently believed that the Earl throughout the country. I say further, of Derby and the Government of which he that if you will do that, you will not find was the head would endeavour to carry me voting in any vote of want of confidence out that policy if the country would supagainst your Government. I will take you port them. He would say further that it and try you, by your measures, precisely would be absurd and ridiculous-that it with the independence and the honesty of would be highly mischievous-to attempt desire to do my duty to my constituents, to reverse a policy which had been which I have always exhibited, I hope, in the law of the land for upwards of reference to the late Government of the five years, if the people of this country noble Lord (Lord J. Russell). But if you were convinced that that policy was just are for protection, and will not say so, then and advantageous. He thought that he I tell you, we will make war upon you. should have no difficulty in supporting the You said once you would break Government of the Earl of Derby, when ganised hypocrisy. I say to you, we will he found that noble Lord speaking in these try if we cannot break up a confederated terms :— imposture. And bad as the representation of this country is-and no one is more conscious of the faults of our representative system than I am-yet I am perfectly persuaded, that if you will dissolve Parliament and go to the constituencies for any duty you like to name, large or small, upon corn, you will find that your ephemeral Government will be scattered to the winds; and that the united voices of the intelligent and free people of this country will condemn the policy you avowed in opposition, and upon the promise of which to your deluded dupes you have scrambled to your seats of power.

up an or

"I express my opinion that if relief is to be given to the farmer, without any serious difficulty the other classes of the community, a moderate or increase of expenditure being thrown upon duty upon corn, producing a large revenue, and thereby enabling other taxes to be diminished, would be most advantageous to the country, and a most just mode of affording relief." In these sentiments he (the Marquess of Granby) entirely concurred, and he gave his humble but very sincere support to the Government. Hon. Gentlemen opposite had taken great pains that evening to show that they were not factious in the opposition they were then offering to Her Majesty's Government; but if their conThe MARQUESS of GRANBY said, that duct was not factious, he was at a loss to he had been so pointedly referred to by imagine what conduct could be so conthe hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. sidered. The noble Lord the Member for Bright), that he hoped the Committee London had declared, when he had retired would allow him to offer a brief reply to from office, that he thought a dissolution that hon. Gentleman. The hon. Member of Parliament would be attended with had said that he looked upon him (the great disadvantages and inconveniences; Marquess of Granby) as a consistent man. but would it not be equally disadvanNow he hoped he had a right to be so tageous, and equally inconvenient at preconsidered, and he was certainly prepared sent, so immediately after the accession of to state that he still retained the opinions the present Government to power? He he had formerly uttered on the great ques- could not help thinking that the noble tion then under consideration. It was Lord the Member for London and his

party were anxious to force an early dis- in a debate which has been sufficientsolution, because they were afraid that the ly discursive; but the Committee will present prosperous condition of the coun- do me the justice to admit that I have try, which they attributed to free trade, been dragged into it by the personal almight soon decline-that the emigration lusions which have been made to me. which had set in to the western shores It is not my intention to trouble the Commight be directed to our own workhouses mittee with any observations with re-that those drainage works which had gard to the candidate for Bath, for whose been mentioned the other evening by the opinions I am not responsible, though as a right hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon personal friend of my own I sincerely hope (Sir J. Graham) might cease, and that a he may be successful at the general elecconsiderable number of labourers might be tion; but what I do feel most deeply is the thrown out of employment. He should attack which has been made upon my pertake that opportunity of saying that he sonal character and honour, and which I had heard the other evening, with great am desirous of repelling in the most displeasure, the fair and straightforward tinct manner. The hon. Member for speech of the right hon. Gentleman the Manchester has challenged me to deny Member for the University of Oxford (Mr. that at the election of 1847, or after the Gladstone), who had said he was anxious election of 1847, I entered into a corrupt to give Her Majesty's Government a fair agreement-[" No, no!"]-an agreement trial, and that the question of free trade not corrupt, then, I suppose to suppress or protection should be fairly put to the charges of bribery, in order to prevent the country at a new election, when they disfranchisement of the borough of Abingwould have an opportunity of saying aye don. That is the distinct charge made by or no to the question. But, on the other the hon. Gentleman. Now, the Committee hand, he had heard with much regret the may perhaps be aware that at the election speech of the right hon. Baronet the in 1847 I was returned by a very slender Member for Ripon, because he knew the majority. ["One."] No; two-the reinfluence which anything that might fall sult of an extraordinary and rather amusfrom that right. Baronet must exercise, ing accident. Two petitions were prenot only on that House, but on the coun- sented against that return, both of them try. The right hon. Baronet had address- containing charges of bribery; one of them ed a solemn warning to the Government asking for the seat, the other merely prayand their party, if they were to dare to ing that the election might be declared to be assert their principles at the next election. void. Hon. Members are aware that when But for his (the Marquess of Granby's) a petition claims a seat, and contains part, the effect of that warning on his charges of bribery, it is open to the party mind was much diminished when he re- who is petitioned against to recriminate membered the language which had been upon his adversary. Before the period held by the right hon. Baronet on other when the Committee was to assemble to occasions. His object in referring to the try that election, an application—a proposal right hon. Baronet was to show, that elo- -was made to me that the charges of quent and conscientious as he was, his bribery should be abandoned on both sides. opinions were not unchangeable, and his My answer was this: "I know that personjudgment not unerring. He referred more ally I cannot be affected. If any agent of especially to one contained in a small work mine, or any person for whom I am responpublished by the right hon. Baronet some sible, has been guilty of bribery, I hope he years ago) in which he recommended a will be exposed before the Committee; but, fixed duty of 15s. per quarter, the estab- whatever may be the result, I will be no lishment of a sinking fund, and various party to any compromise whatever." other matters calculated to relieve the mediately after that suggestion was made agriculturists. He (the Marquess of Granby) to me, and my answer was given, the petrusted that Her Majesty's Government tition praying for the seat was abandoned. would still continue to pursue the even There then stood the petition which prayed tenor of their way, and would not suffer merely that my election might be declared themselves to be diverted by any threats void; and one of the charges in that peor intimidation for doing what they be- tition, as I have already stated, was a lieved to be for the good of the country. charge of bribery. I believe the Committee was to assemble on a Monday, and on the previous Friday evening an appli

The ATTORNEY GENERAL: It was not my intention to have taken any part

Im

cation was made to me, though from what upon what I believe to be very good authoquarter it proceeded I don't know, and am rity, were apprehensive that the result of utterly indifferent, proposing to abandon an investigation into the conduct of both that petition, providing I would pay the parties in the borough, might end in its costs of the petitioner. My answer to disfranchisement. I was further told disthat application was this: There is a tinctly that the known price in the market charge of bribery against me and my of the borough of Abingdon was 3,000. agents in that petition. I won't pay a I acquit the hon. and learned Gentleman farthing to suppress the charge of bribery, of what I never charged him with. When and you may go back with that answer. "the Bill of the noble Member for the city The answer was taken back to the quarter of London is passed, if the House allows whence the suggestion proceeded; and in it to pass, I shall be very glad indeed if about an hour I was informed that the the borough of Abingdon comes under its second petition was dropped. I feel that provisions, or if that borough is subjected my honour and character have been as- to the same ordeal which the borough of sailed, because it is impossible for anybody St. Albans has lately gone through. to say that an agreement to suppress a charge of bribery for the purpose of preventing the disfranchisement of a borough, would not be a corrupt and scandalous agreement. I am anxious-more anxious than I can express-to stand well in the opinion of this House; but I feel that I should not, I ought not for one moment, maintain any character here, if I had been a party to any such agreement as I was supposed to have made, upon what authority I don't know, by the hon. Member for Manchester. I have given the fullest explanation. It is the truest and sincerest; and I should like to know how the hon. Member for Manchester could feel justified in making this charge, without having the smallest materials for it.

MR, BRIGHT: The Committee will bear in mind, that when I spoke of the borough which the hon. and learned Gentleman (Sir F. Thesiger) represents, I did not make any allusion to any part he had personally taken. Noue knew better than many hon. Gentlemen opposite that these things are often managed when the candidate has nothing to do with them openly, and often when he is totally ignorant of what is being done. What I stated was, that a petition had been presented against the return of the hon. and learned Gentleman; that the hon. Gentleman's Friends proposed, as he has said, to enter into the case of his opponents; and that parties to the petition in the borough[Loud and continued cries of "Oh!" prevented the hon. Member from concluding the sentence.] I never had the slightest idea that the hon. and learned Gentleman would have been a party to any such arrangement. I may appeal at least to the evidence of your own ears. Parties in the borough, as I was informed at the time, and as I have been informed recently,

But

COLONEL THOMPSON expressed his satisfaction at the certain increase which must in the end arise out of these proceedings, to what he would denominate the just popular influence. The party meant by that term, and their friends, could not fail to be aware of the species of decision to which they were to be referred. They did not think of refusing the reference; because they knew that though bad is the best," it was the only thing they were likely to have at present. they were wide awake to the fact, that they were referred to a decision in which the chances were to be ten to one against them;-a decision where every 100 of the opposite side were to have a vote, and every 1,000 of their own. If they took for a specimen the case of the hon. Gentlemen who had just succeeded to the Government, they would find the ten county Members sent by a population altogether less than that of the county of Lancaster. Those ten counties sent twenty-three Members to the House of Commons, while the county of Lancaster sent four. That was six to one against Lancashire. Then the eleven borough Members were sent by two-thirds of the voters in Manchester. Those eleven boroughs sent seventeen Members, while Manchester only sent two; which a little arithmetic would show was in round numbers thirteen to one against Manchester. Putting these numbers together, the aggregate would be found close upon ten to one, as he had said; besides which, the data were three or four years old, and there could not be much doubt which way the alterations would lie. One thing more, he would take this opportunity to impress. He had heard something like a statement that this decision, such as it was, was to be "final." He believed hon. Gentlemen

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE-pointment of the Committee until the QUER hoped the Committee would consent to grant this Vote only, and he should

1403 Proclamation for Assembling {LORDS}

MR. NAPIER said, he had selected those Gentlemen whom he thought most qualified to sit on the Committee, and only six of them were at all connected with the Government. It was somewhat difficult to make a selection, but he believed he had made the best choice open to him.

MR. REYNOLDS hoped the request of the hon. Member for the county of Limerick (Mr. Monsell) would be acceded to. The Committee was objectionable, because seven out of fifteen of the members of the Committee were Englishmen. He wanted to know why the hon. Member for West Surrey (Mr. H. Drummond) was upon the Committee, and why the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. S. Crawford) should be omitted? The provinces of Munster and Connaught were not at all represented on the Committee, nor were the tenantry of Ireland at all represented there. He objected to proceeding with the nomination of the Committee to-night. It was, if not a packed jury, at least a selected one. The jury ought to be recast.

MR. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said, it was not his wish to be put upon the Committee, but thought it ought to be so constituted as would entitle its report to the confidence of the Irish people.

MR. CHISHOLM ANSTEY trusted that the Committee in its present shape might be agreed to, and that other names might be added to meet the views of the hon. Member for the county of Limerick. For his own part, he regarded the presence of the names of English Members as a guarantee of the fairness with which the inquiry would be conducted.

MR. SCULLY recommended the postponement of the Committee for the present. The question with which this Committee had to deal was essentially an Irish one, and ought to be thoroughly sifted.

MR. WALPOLE said, he was willing to substitute other names in order to meet the views of the objectors to the present list. If it was thought that the interests of the south of Ireland were at all neglected, he was perfectly willing to add such names as would inspire a greater amount of confidence.

MR. M. J. O'CONNELL was anxious to see the name of the right hon. Baronet the Member for Ripon on the Committee. The right hon. Member for Hull (Mr. Baines) also, had given valuable evidence on the subject to be investigated; and the hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) had paid much attention to the condition of

Parliament Bill

1404 that portion of the people of Ireland in whom it was said the crime and outrage complained of had originated. Committee agreed to.

The House adjourned at a quarter after One o'clock till Monday next.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Monday, March 22, 1852.

MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1a Personal Estates
of Intestates; Proclamation for Assembling
Parliament.
2a Patent Law Amendment.

PROCLAMATION FOR ASSEMBLING PAR-
LIAMENT BILL-BRIBERY AT ELEC
TIONS.

LORD BROUGHAM said, he would solicit the attention of his noble Friend opposite (the Earl of Derby) to a Bill for removing what he (Lord Brougham) thought was a great omission, through an oversight, in the statutory laws, touching the assembling of Parliament by proclamation of the Crown. Their Lordships were aware that, partly by usage and partly by statute, a period of fifty days must now elapse between the issuing of a proclamation for summoning a new Parliament, and the day fixed for its assembling. The 22nd Article of the Treaty of Union with Scotland required fifty days for the assembling of the first Parliament-twenty-five being necessary for the election of Scotch Peers; hence the former period required by statute, as well as by the common law, of forty days, had been extended to fifty; but since the Act of Union passed, the twentyfive days for the election of Scotch Peers; had been reduced to ten, namely, by an Act of last Session; and it followed almost as a matter of course that thirty-five days would now be quite sufficient.

The EARL of DERBY was understood to ask the noble Lord if he proposed to make the shorter interval compulsory?

LORD BROUGHAM said, by no means. The Bill he was about to present would save a fortnight of the interval now required between the proclamation and the assembling of Parliament, but would not limit that interval to thirty-five days-it might be fifty or sixty days. It very often did not signify whether Parliament assembled thirty-five or sixty days after the proclamation of the Crown; but he could conceive circumstances might arise which would render the difference between thirty